Ron Paul says Bitcoin is not "True Money".

[jonald_fyookball]

Ron Paul is right. Bitcoin presently is not money.

Why?

Money has to be very marketable. What does this mean? It means if you exchange large amounts of money for goods,services it's value does not plunge. The marginal utility of whatever is money has to be high. Bitcoin does not pass this test. When even a small amount of bitcoins enter the market the bid/ask spread begins to widen insanely.

Money needs to extinguish debts. What does this mean? Settlement. Simply put almost nobody is settling anything in bitcoin. People accept BTC only because they can be instantly exchanged into dollars. Bitcoin is a conduit to access fiat liquidity pools, not to settle anything. Couple nerds maybe settling their tiny debts here and there in BTC.

Money needs to be able to measure value. What cost X BTC now may cost 1/3 BTC even tomorrow. Economic calculation is next to impossible in bitcoin. The value swings are too wide to even know what it will be worth in an hour. Bitcoin's value has fluctuated from +20 -60% since Jan 1st. This is an annual inflation rate of something like 150%.

Bitcoin does not pass any of those three tests to be even remotely considered money. It is the equivalent of tokens that access fiat bid's at this point in time.

You're basically saying bitcoin has low liquidity, high volatility, and is not universally adopted at this point in time.  And you're right. However, the growth is explosive, having already gone from a mere concept to a billion dollar market in just 5 years.

[Lethn]

I still believe this whole thing about the price and value is false, do you know why currencies like the dollar and euro are the way they are? It's because it's fixed, yes, globally rigged, when they think the value is going too low the central banks just print more money and buy stuff up to make it rise like a pump and dump scam. I'm amazed frankly that Bitcoin is holding steady above $400 and it's great seeing such a 'non-currency' rip these so called real currencies a new one in the markets, anything above $200 is amazing in this day and age when you look at how fucked up the economy is so revel in it.

Hell, even Litecoin can be seen trading above $10, the reason that 'cryptocurrencies' are so volatile is because they're simply honestly reflecting what's really going on in the market like Gold/Silver.

[meliz98]

Bitcoin is still very young. Give it some time ron paul. Once bitcoin has big public acceptance and has a trillion market cap it will have a less volatility.

[BawsyBoss]

What does it matter who considers it what as long as it does what it is supposed to do?

[RomertL]

I still believe this whole thing about the price and value is false, do you know why currencies like the dollar and euro are the way they are? It's because it's fixed, yes, globally rigged, when they think the value is going too low the central banks just print more money and buy stuff up to make it rise like a pump and dump scam. I'm amazed frankly that Bitcoin is holding steady above $400 and it's great seeing such a 'non-currency' rip these so called real currencies a new one in the markets, anything above $200 is amazing in this day and age when you look at how fucked up the economy is so revel in it.

Hell, even Litecoin can be seen trading above $10, the reason that 'cryptocurrencies' are so volatile is because they're simply honestly reflecting what's really going on in the market like Gold/Silver.

Err... Printing more money to raise the price??? Sorry, I think you've misunderstood the basics of how the fiat system works. When central banks print more money the price decreases since the supply increases. It's called inflation...

[Latinman]

Well crypto currencies as whole for sure are more stronger together

[Lethn]

I still believe this whole thing about the price and value is false, do you know why currencies like the dollar and euro are the way they are? It's because it's fixed, yes, globally rigged, when they think the value is going too low the central banks just print more money and buy stuff up to make it rise like a pump and dump scam. I'm amazed frankly that Bitcoin is holding steady above $400 and it's great seeing such a 'non-currency' rip these so called real currencies a new one in the markets, anything above $200 is amazing in this day and age when you look at how fucked up the economy is so revel in it.

Hell, even Litecoin can be seen trading above $10, the reason that 'cryptocurrencies' are so volatile is because they're simply honestly reflecting what's really going on in the market like Gold/Silver.

Err... Printing more money to raise the price??? Sorry, I think you've misunderstood the basics of how the fiat system works. When central banks print more money the price decreases since the supply increases. It's called inflation...

Learn to fucking read.

[apsvinet]

What does it matter who considers it what as long as it does what it is supposed to do?

It doesn't matter to the people in the community who already knows what bitcoin is supposed to do, and that it's working. But for the every day guy who has no knowledge about it will listen to what "important" people tells them.

[jbreher]

Ron Paul has made it quite clear at other times that he considers precious metals to be true money. Certainly not fiat. For decades, he has railed against the federal reserve system,as a lone voice in the wilderness. He may be the most important person ever in the dawning of the public's awareness of the evils of central banking. There is no way in hell he considers fiat to be true money.

At other times he has said that he does not understand bitcoin, indicating he has an issue with its non-physical nature. He has never to my knowledge advocated restricting its use by any willing person, for any non-fraudulent use whatsoever.

[billysweird]

If Bitcoin isn't "True Money" then just imagine what the Fiat currency must be....toy money? paper money? Cause I'm pretty sure Bitcoiners are more equal in "social class" than those who rely purely upon fiat money..

Look at China, a lot of Chinese came into Bitcoin to get Away from Fiat money that's controlled by the government.

[RomertL]

I still believe this whole thing about the price and value is false, do you know why currencies like the dollar and euro are the way they are? It's because it's fixed, yes, globally rigged, when they think the value is going too low the central banks just print more money and buy stuff up to make it rise like a pump and dump scam. I'm amazed frankly that Bitcoin is holding steady above $400 and it's great seeing such a 'non-currency' rip these so called real currencies a new one in the markets, anything above $200 is amazing in this day and age when you look at how fucked up the economy is so revel in it.

Hell, even Litecoin can be seen trading above $10, the reason that 'cryptocurrencies' are so volatile is because they're simply honestly reflecting what's really going on in the market like Gold/Silver.

Err... Printing more money to raise the price??? Sorry, I think you've misunderstood the basics of how the fiat system works. When central banks print more money the price decreases since the supply increases. It's called inflation...

Learn to fucking read.

So you're not saying central banks are printing and spending more to make the price rise??? Weird, it looks exactly like that when I read it. I guess I have to learn how to fucking read then.

[Initscri]

Ron Paul put within his own words a sense of his own opinion surrounding Bitcoin. He basically stated he doesn't believe he would use it himself for reasons not completely known. The difference between him and many other politicians however, is while he would not use it himself (for whatever reasons), he sees the technological value and idea behind it as a great thing. He sees it as innovation to promote competition. You don't necessarily have to fully agree with something or use something to back it and support it.

[billysweird]

http://www.coindesk.com/ron-paul-bitcoin-true-money/

Ron Paul: Bitcoin is not ‘True Money’
Nermin Hajdarbegovic | Published on April 18, 2014 at 11:04 BST | News, Regulation, US & Canada
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US Congressman Ron Paul does not believe bitcoin is ‘true money,’ but he is still a big fan of the concept.

Ron Paul is one of the most prominent libertarians in US politics. Much of the libertarian movement is in favour of digital currencies, either through active support and endorsement, or by advocating no government interference and regulation.

Ron Paul even got the distinction of having an altcoin named after him. He never shied away from controversial issues and he never kept his love of bitcoin a secret. Paul’s views on the state of our current financial system are more or less known and he reiterated his position on Quora this week.

Government should stay out of the way

When asked why he thinks bitcoin does not fit the definition of money, Paul said it is his personal opinion, but that it should be irrelevant in the big scheme of things.

“Though I don’t personally believe that bitcoin is true money, it should be perfectly legal and there should be no restrictions on it, there should be no taxes on it. The people who operate bitcoin would, of course, be prohibited from committing fraud but the people should be able to have competition whether it is a basket of commodities or crypto-currencies – it should be perfectly legal,” said Paul.

He argued that freedom from government intervention on the Internet is a prerequisite for the development of digital currencies. Paul said he is concerned that the government may want to curtail Internet freedoms. He warned that everyone should be concerned about government interference online regardless of their position on digital currencies.

Terrible monetary system debases currencies

The Congressman pointed out that he sees bitcoin as a very interesting subject and that he has been a champion of legalising competition in currencies for many years.

Ron Paul went on to explain why he’s drawn to digital currencies:

“We have a terrible monetary system today. We have a government that purposely counterfeits and debases the currencies, and I believe that the alternative would be a competition.  That means that anything that wants to substitute for the American dollar should be permitted.

There should be no prohibitions; there should not be a monopoly and a cartel running our monetary system because it so often benefits the privileged few. We certainly saw this in the bailing out of the financial system where the wealthy bankers got bailed out it in this recent and severe recession. I am a strong believer in competition. Bitcoin is an introduction to that.”

Paul stressed the importance of keeping the Internet free of government interference and at the same time keeping digital currencies alive and legal. He warned that the financial system is run by a cartel and by special interests.

“We want a system that truly challenges the government in their ability to take care of the very wealthy at the expense of the middle class and the poor,” he concluded.

**************************************
I think "Bitcoin is an innovative payment network and a new kind of money. "

[BADecker]

Bitcoin is not true money in the U.S., from the standpoint that the Constitution says that only gold and silver are money.

Fiat currencies are not money. In the U.S. and most developed and semi-developed countries, fiat is debt. But it is not debt the way you generally think of debt. It is debt from the standpoint that it is value owed by the banks to the people. Why? Because it was created out of thin air, usually by the banks in concert with the people (or their leaders), when the people signed loan and mortgage notes with the banks. It is government leaders that allowed it to be this way by agreeing that the banks and the people could do this.

Because fiat was created out of thin air, and because it is not being paid back to the people as it should be (since the banks received creation of it from the people when the people sign loan and mortgage notes), and because nothing that the bankers own has been given in return, fiat belongs to the people, not the banks. The reason that Bitcoin was created is that the banks have withheld repayment to the people beyond the banks' ability to repay. If the banks had acted fairly by returning mortgage money to the people at the end of the term of the loan (since it is the person's signature on the mortgage note that created the fiat in the first place), there would have been no need for Bitcoin.

Grocery store coupons and such are riders on fiat the same way Mastercoin and Counterparty are riders on Bitcoin.

Bitcoin does not purport to be money. Bitcoin is just there. Bitcoin is being used as a medium of exchange. Bitcoin was set in place to start to limit the banks that are monopolizing fiat, fiat that really belongs to the people.

Part of the reason that gold and silver was taken off the market is that there is a limited amount of both, and they both are used in industry and for other things, and the people were literally LOSING the substances in their daily handling of it. In addition, the supplies of both were not able to keep up with the growing populations or the world. Now, these may be excuses that the bankers used for bringing the fiat idea into existence in the first place, but they DO have some validity. There are other excuses as well.

Now, here is an important part of all this. Perhaps most important is the fact that all money is or represents stored up labor of the people. That's what money (gold and silver) is; that's what fiat is; that's what Bitcoin is. That's all they are. You can't eat money; you can't eat fiat; you can't eat Bitcoin. The value of all three lies in the fact that they are or represent stored up labor of the people.

When the bankers hoarded up the fiat that the people created with them (note that the formal national debt of the U.S. is $17 trillion, but that the informal national debt lies around $200 trillion), something was needed to fill the vacuum created among the people. Bitcoin. But if it weren't Bitcoin, it would be rebellion.

Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Bitcoin.

[CoinDiver]

What RP doesn't understand is that bitcoin did originate in the market first. No one declared bitcoin to have value. It was found to be useful, and thus has intrinsic value. At ANY price > 0, I can send relatively large amounts of money instantly across the world. That's utility. With all due respect, RP is wrong. Not because he has the wrong idea, but because he has the wrong information.

[jbreher]

Bitcoin is not true money in the U.S., from the standpoint that the Constitution says that only gold and silver are money.

Umm... not quite:

"Article 1, Section. 10.
No State shall ... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; ..."

Doesn't say anything about only gold or silver being money. It bars the states from coining money, and it prohibits the states from making anything other than gold or silver a tender in payment of debts. Why do you suppose they used both the term money and the term tender in payment of debts? Just to be erudite? No - because they are two differing concepts.

[MOON_2000]

Ron Paul put within his own words a sense of his own opinion surrounding Bitcoin. He basically stated he doesn't believe he would use it himself for reasons not completely known. The difference between him and many other politicians however, is while he would not use it himself (for whatever reasons), he sees the technological value and idea behind it as a great thing. He sees it as innovation to promote competition. You don't necessarily have to fully agree with something or use something to back it and support it.

True, being the person he is, even if he would not use it himself, he still is not too full of pride to acknowledge the value of BTC.  Many others would not do the same.

[Bit_Happy]

I searched for "Rand Paul bitcoin" and the current top results are all about Ron, so Sen. Rand Paul is not on the record having said much about BTC, yet.

[BADecker]

If Bitcoin isn't "True Money" then just imagine what the Fiat currency must be....toy money? paper money? Cause I'm pretty sure Bitcoiners are more equal in "social class" than those who rely purely upon fiat money..

Look at China, a lot of Chinese came into Bitcoin to get Away from Fiat money that's controlled by the government.

Fiat is legal tender, not money. You can use fiat and money to trade for things.

Money has long been described as something of value that has been "coined." Usually it is precious metals. Sometimes it is salt, depending on where you live, and the times. Fiat has no inherent value. Fiat is not money.

[pekv2]

Why can't I use BTC at champs sports when they accept google wallet?