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Author Topic: Oklahoma will charge homeowners who generate their own power  (Read 1798 times)
Wilikon (OP)
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April 20, 2014, 07:30:47 PM
 #1



[...]
Utility customers who want to install rooftop solar panels or small wind turbines could face extra charges on their bills after legislation passed the Oklahoma House of Representatives on Monday.

Senate Bill 1456 passed 83-5 after no debate in the House. It passed the Senate last month and now heads to Gov. Mary Fallin for her approval.

The bill was supported by the state’s major electric utilities, but drew opposition from solar advocates, environmentalists and others. It sets up a process at the Oklahoma Corporation Commission to establish a separate customer class and monthly surcharge for distributed generation such as rooftop solar or small wind turbines.

[...]
While I suppose there might be an argument for allowing utilities to recoup costs that are legitimately incurred from the practice of selling energy back to the grid, the idea of charging people extra for doing something that reduces their dependence on the grid while at the same time increasing the amount of energy available seems rather nonsensical. As the linked article goes on to note, these types of systems benefit energy companies by helping to reduce demand on the grid during peak hours and by increasing the amount of energy available during those periods. Given that, one would think that energy companies would want to encourage this sort of thing rather than backing measures like this which could potentiallly hamper it. It’s hard not to see this as an effort by the utility companies to hamper the competition that solar and wind generated energy provide them and, of course, to make sure that they still manage to make some money out of the deal.


http://newsok.com/oklahoma-house-passes-solar-surcharge-bill/article/3955378
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April 20, 2014, 07:34:29 PM
 #2

Good lord. And so this begins. Is there any escape?

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April 20, 2014, 09:57:59 PM
 #3

Good lord. And so this begins. Is there any escape?
Certainly, walk right through that door into the shower area, the exit is just around the corner.
Wilikon (OP)
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April 20, 2014, 11:08:49 PM
 #4

Good lord. And so this begins. Is there any escape?

49 states to go...
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April 21, 2014, 12:58:33 AM
 #5

thats fucked up


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meliz98
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April 21, 2014, 02:31:58 AM
 #6

In a capitalist state the big corporations is the most powerful entity even on top of politicians.
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April 21, 2014, 02:38:26 AM
 #7

In a capitalist state the big corporations is the most powerful entity even on top of politicians.

Show me who makes the money and I care not who rules the country. Something like that, pretty sure butchered the quote....

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April 21, 2014, 05:47:56 AM
 #8

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" - Mayer Amschel Rothschild
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April 21, 2014, 06:31:07 AM
 #9

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" - Mayer Amschel Rothschild
one of my favotive quotes... Smiley
it seems the united states becomes more and more like europe...
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April 21, 2014, 06:56:54 AM
 #10

In a capitalist state the big corporations is the most powerful entity even on top of politicians.
There is no capitalism in the USA, they have capitolism instead. That isn't surprising because capitalism is only a transitional period, which starts after destruction of feudal society.
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April 21, 2014, 11:28:02 AM
 #11

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" - Mayer Amschel Rothschild


Ahhh that's what it is! Such a true statement...

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April 21, 2014, 11:29:05 AM
 #12

Sorry wilikon , but why did you cut a few very important parts of the article:


First the subtitle is:

A bill that would allow regulated electric utilities to impose a surcharge on customers who install rooftop solar panels or small wind turbines passed the Oklahoma House of Representatives on Monday.

So it'a surcharge for people who install those and wish to sell back into the grid their extra energy. And it's a charge when you install this not , one time only.

Also , this:

Quote
Customers who already have those systems installed wouldn't be affected by the bill. It also wouldn't apply to electric cooperatives, which aren't regulated by the Corporation Commission. The new tariffs for distributed generation would start by the end of 2015.

I really think this was blown out of proportion


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April 21, 2014, 11:30:41 AM
 #13

So you run completely and efficiently off of solar/wind, no charges?

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April 21, 2014, 12:04:41 PM
 #14

So it'a surcharge for people who install those and wish to sell back into the grid their extra energy. And it's a charge when you install this not , one time only.

I really think this was blown out of proportion

No it wasn't... It's not a one time fee, it's monthly.

The article says: "the surcharge is needed to recover some of the infrastructure costs to send excess electricity safely from distributed generation back to the grid."

That's saying that the electric company is charging a fee to reroute the extra power the system produces; this would be monthly. They're doing this to prevent people from selling power: "utilities need the new surcharge to prevent customers who can’t afford the installation costs of distributed generation from subsidizing customers who have the systems installed." It says nothing about selling power back into the grid, the electric company is taking it!

Makes sense now?
 

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April 21, 2014, 12:09:40 PM
 #15

So you run completely and efficiently off of solar/wind, no charges?

Except the monthly surcharge the electric company will throw at you to 'handle' your excess electricity. It wouldn't surprise me if they charge per kw, probably half of what they charge to give you power. In order words, you may not even realize a true savings. Last thing the big electric co-ops want us to do is reduce our dependency on them. So naturally they're going to do whatever they can so installing solar power systems aren't an attractive alternative.

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April 21, 2014, 12:11:21 PM
 #16

So it'a surcharge for people who install those and wish to sell back into the grid their extra energy. And it's a charge when you install this not , one time only.

I really think this was blown out of proportion

No it wasn't... It's not a one time fee, it's monthly.

The article says: "the surcharge is needed to recover some of the infrastructure costs to send excess electricity safely from distributed generation back to the grid."

That's saying that the electric company is charging a fee to reroute the extra power the system produces; this would be monthly. They're doing this to prevent people from selling power: "utilities need the new surcharge to prevent customers who can’t afford the installation costs of distributed generation from subsidizing customers who have the systems installed." It says nothing about selling power back into the grid, the electric company is taking it!

Makes sense now?
 

From my point of view , as a customer in a country in which because of this new eco friendly hype and price of those green certificates my bill has almost doubled in less than 3 years..

Why do you want to sell your extra power back into the grid? For profit right? So , pay the damn tax if you want to get more money.

You don't want to depend on the electric company , just stay with your solar panel and wind turbine and rely on your batteries.

Besides , you said it was monthly... so how is that "Customers who already have those systems installed wouldn't be affected by the bill" possible ?



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Lucky Cris
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April 21, 2014, 01:45:22 PM
 #17

So it'a surcharge for people who install those and wish to sell back into the grid their extra energy. And it's a charge when you install this not , one time only.

I really think this was blown out of proportion

No it wasn't... It's not a one time fee, it's monthly.

The article says: "the surcharge is needed to recover some of the infrastructure costs to send excess electricity safely from distributed generation back to the grid."

That's saying that the electric company is charging a fee to reroute the extra power the system produces; this would be monthly. They're doing this to prevent people from selling power: "utilities need the new surcharge to prevent customers who can’t afford the installation costs of distributed generation from subsidizing customers who have the systems installed." It says nothing about selling power back into the grid, the electric company is taking it!

Makes sense now?
 
From my point of view , as a customer in a country in which because of this new eco friendly hype and price of those green certificates my bill has almost doubled in less than 3 years..

Why do you want to sell your extra power back into the grid? For profit right? So , pay the damn tax if you want to get more money.

You don't want to depend on the electric company , just stay with your solar panel and wind turbine and rely on your batteries.

Besides , you said it was monthly... so how is that "Customers who already have those systems installed wouldn't be affected by the bill" possible ?

I'm glad you asked... Smiley

People who already have a solar powered system installed are grandfathered because they're not attached to the electric company's grid so the power company can't charge them for the 'excess' power they produce. Read the article again and allow it to soak in - 'Utility customers who want to install rooftop solar panels or small wind turbines could face extra charges on their bills ' If this were a one time 'set up' fee so to speak, the sentence would have read: 'Utility customers who want to install rooftop solar panels or small wind turbines could face extra charges on their bill.' The plural use of bills vice bill is the first indication this isn't a one time charge. Also, look at your utility bills. Utility companies use the term surcharge to describe recurring monthly charges, one time fees are just that, a fee. Oh, not to mention, the article actually says: "It sets up a process at the Oklahoma Corporation Commission to establish a separate customer class and monthly surcharge for distributed generation such as rooftop solar or small wind turbines." Guess it really is a monthly charge.

Also, people who actually have these systems could care less about selling power back into the grid for a profit. Their profit would be in the form of savings! If anything, you'd profit by selling the power to your neighbor, which is what they're trying to prevent with this bill.

The whole point is to free oneself from the power companies, not have your power counted as it leaves your generator back to the power company. Think about it... that's how the electric company will charge you, a metered approach. Those who already have a solar powered system aren't metered so they can't be regulated. I wouldn't be surprised if the surcharge to put your excess power back into the grid isn't higher per kw than the actual cost if you were to using theirs. Their point for the giant power houses is to make it non-economical for you, as a consumer, to own a solar powered system.

Electric companies will fight tooth and nail so that we have to depend on them for electricity. They'd be out of business if they didn't find a way to charge people for solar power because more and more people are adopting it. It's not nearly as expensive as it was several years ago, and it doesn't take a genius to build one. And rest assure, this won't be an inexpensive tax. They have to make it undesirable for you, the consumer, to even think about it.

You say: "You don't want to depend on the electric company , just stay with your solar panel and wind turbine and rely on your batteries." I think what you're failing to realize is that this bill will strip this option away from solar power users. Their excuse is simple: they have to regulate solar power users to prevent them from becoming little power houses of their own, no matter how small the competition. Imagine a neighborhood producing power for their entire community with a mini wind turbine, completely independent of the electric company. They can't and won't have that.

Does it make it little more sense now?

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April 21, 2014, 02:19:39 PM
 #18



You say: "You don't want to depend on the electric company , just stay with your solar panel and wind turbine and rely on your batteries." I think what you're failing to realize is that this bill will strip this option away from solar power users. Their excuse is simple: they have to regulate solar power users to prevent them from becoming little power houses of their own, no matter how small the competition. Imagine a neighborhood producing power for their entire community with a mini wind turbine, completely independent of the electric company. They can't and won't have that.

Does it make it little more sense now?

How the hell can they prevent this with this bill?

I'm installing a solar panel and I don't connect to the grid. What can they bill me? On what? How much?



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April 21, 2014, 03:29:20 PM
 #19

Maybe we should read the actual text of the bill?
There it is:
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2013-14%20ENR/SB/SB1456%20ENR.PDF

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April 21, 2014, 03:30:25 PM
 #20

Maybe we should read the actual text of the bill?
There it is:
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2013-14%20ENR/SB/SB1456%20ENR.PDF

Did that but they've lost me at:

Quote
B. No public utility retail electric supplier shall increase
rates charged or enforce a surcharge on the basis of the use or
installation of a solar energy device by a consumer
above that
required to recover the full costs necessary to serve customers who
install distributed generation on the customer side of the meter
after the effective date of this act.


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