Oklahoma will charge homeowners who generate their own power

[Wilikon]

As a reminder this is not new and not just happening in this US state.

Published: 21 Aug 2013

http://www.thelocal.es/20130821/spanish-solar-law-hits-international-headlines

A new tax on solar power introduced two weeks ago by the Spanish government has been described as "ludicrous" and "stupid" in two leading international publications.

US business and finance magazine Forbes pulled no punches in an article titled, "Out of ideas and in debt, Spain sets sights on taxing the sun".

It pointed out that Spain "is one of the top countries in the world with respect to installed photovoltaic (PV) solar energy capacity."

But the author took an incredulous tone and noted: "Spain is now attempting to scale back the use of solar panels – the use of which they have encouraged and subsidized over the last decade – by imposing a tax on those who use the panels."

She added: "You get the feeling that government officials were out of ideas, stared up at the sky one day and thought, 'I’ve got it! We’ll tax the sun!'"

Australia's Business Spectator published a story on the same subject on Wednesday under the headline, "Spain's solar stupidity".

It said: "Imposed by decree, the reform aims to raise money for tackling a €26 billion debt to power producers which the state has built up over the years in regulating energy costs and prices."

The article quoted Industry Minister Jose Manuel Soria who introduced the law as saying, "I support 'autoconsumo' [independent power generation by households]... but the power system has infrastructure, grids that the rest of us Spaniards who are in the system have to pay for. And we pay for it through our electricity bill."

Both articles also quoted Teresa Ribera, who served as secretary of state for the environment under the former Socialist administration.

She responded to Soria's statement, saying: "It's like asking cyclists to pay a levy to keep open the petrol stations they don't use."

Now a senior adviser to the Paris-based Institute for Sustainable Development and International Relations (IDDRI), Ribera said the law was "illogical in terms of energy efficiency and costs" and "a serious invitation by the government for citizens to become anti-system."

Business Spectator interviewed people who plan to ignore the new law, including Sergio Pomar, chief executive of energy-efficient installation firm INEL.

He said: "If I spend €600 to install solar panels and get fined €6 million let the judge decide."

Private individuals who fail to hook their solar panels up to the national grid to be metered and taxed could face fines of up to €30 million ($40 million) under the new law.

Forbes magazine wrote: "It seems ludicrous."



Spaniards rebel against solar panel levy

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/14/spain-energy-idUSL6N0GE1WR20130814

* Spain imposes solar panel levy under energy reform

* Rebels risk fines of up to 30 million euros

* Reforms threaten Spain meeting 2020 EU renewable energy goal

[Schleicher]

Maybe we should read the actual text of the bill?
There it is:
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2013-14%20ENR/SB/SB1456%20ENR.PDF

Did that but they've lost me at:

B. No public utility retail electric supplier shall increase
rates charged or enforce a surcharge on the basis of the use or
installation of a solar energy device by a consumer above that
required to recover the full costs necessary to serve customers who
install distributed generation on the customer side of the meter
after the effective date of this act.

If you install solar panels that are connected to the grid then you have to pay any extra costs the power company may have.
You can't be subsidized by other customers from the same customer class.

[Lucky Cris]

You say: "You don't want to depend on the electric company , just stay with your solar panel and wind turbine and rely on your batteries." I think what you're failing to realize is that this bill will strip this option away from solar power users. Their excuse is simple: they have to regulate solar power users to prevent them from becoming little power houses of their own, no matter how small the competition. Imagine a neighborhood producing power for their entire community with a mini wind turbine, completely independent of the electric company. They can't and won't have that.

Does it make it little more sense now?

How the hell can they prevent this with this bill?

I'm installing a solar panel and I don't connect to the grid. What can they bill me? On what? How much?

Exactly!!! You know the answer yourself but for some reason it's not clicking... You would be grandfathered in and not have to pay the surcharge because, like I said, you're not connected to the grid! Think outside of what's written here. Under this bill, new systems (future date) will be connected to the grid (with some metered device obviously); a requirement. That's how it'll be prevented!

Damn, I don't own a solar powered system or know know much about the subject matter, but I at least have some sense about how this would impact consumers. You on the other hand, need to get a better understanding it as you own one.

If this doesn't do it for you, I'm not sure what will. I can't explain it any more simpler.

[Lucky Cris]

Thanks Wilikon. Just wanted to highlight a couple of points for those who don't grasp how much of an issue this really is... But in their defense, the OK article is purposely brief and terribly written. But that's all part of the plan; confusion so you don't pay attention to what's really going on.

As a reminder this is not new and not just happening in this US state.

Published: 21 Aug 2013

http://www.thelocal.es/20130821/spanish-solar-law-hits-international-headlines

"Spain is now attempting to scale back the use of solar panels – the use of which they have encouraged and subsidized over the last decade – by imposing a tax on those who use the panels."

Private individuals who fail to hook their solar panels up to the national grid to be metered and taxed could face fines of up to €30 million ($40 million) under the new law.

I suppose those of us thinking about installing solar panels need to hurry and jump on the bandwagon before this becomes a nationwide control.

[AnonyMint]

They got jealous because Spain taxes sunlight too.

The slide into the latter stages of Fascism is underway. Totalitarianism follows.

[bryant.coleman]

The Spanish solar taxes.etc were imposed by the Socialist government (led by PSOE). This is not an one-off incident. They created many similar crazy taxes. No wonder they were demolished during the 2011 elections.

[AnonyMint]

And another socialist government was installed. All parties are socialist these days. There is no such thing as a "small government" pro-local governments party.

Ban everything, including breathing because it exhales man-made global warming. And the body produces energy autonomously from food, so we need to tax that.

Cross posting because I think this is indicative of Dark Enlightenment philosophy on the utility of government (or more generally any top-down authority)...

It'd definitely be good if we insured there were no new species come in and take over and flourish while old species died.

Wait....none of us would be around then...

I'm awaiting a CO2 tax effectively banning breathing and a consumer protection law banning death.

Heck let's just ban everything. Let's ban banning. Let's ban banning banning. And ban banning banning banning banning banning. Do you see now my theory of everything w.r.t. unbounded recursion.

[Spendulus]

The Spanish solar taxes.etc were imposed by the Socialist government (led by PSOE). This is not an one-off incident. They created many similar crazy taxes. No wonder they were demolished during the 2011 elections.

In the interests of maximum efficiency....

I can't see a problem with taxing people who buy and use INEFFICIENT types of power generating equipment.   This would include numerous styles of so called "green or renewable" energy implementations.   PV solar has gotten much more efficient, thus it might be taxed nominally.

Penalize buying into a fad, essentially.  But maybe that's got disadvantages too, as it would restrict the natural growth of new energy sources.  

[bryant.coleman]

In the interests of maximum efficiency....

I can't see a problem with taxing people who buy and use INEFFICIENT types of power generating equipment.   This would include numerous styles of so called "green or renewable" energy implementations.   PV solar has gotten much more efficient, thus it might be taxed nominally.

Do you support nuclear energy?

In my opinion, nuclear energy is the greenest, cheapest and the most efficient form of energy available. Much better than burning millions of tons of coal or building massive dams across the major rivers.

[AnonyMint]

The Spanish solar taxes.etc were imposed by the Socialist government (led by PSOE). This is not an one-off incident. They created many similar crazy taxes. No wonder they were demolished during the 2011 elections.

In the interests of maximum efficiency....

I can't see a problem with taxing people who buy and use INEFFICIENT types of power generating equipment.   This would include numerous styles of so called "green or renewable" energy implementations.   PV solar has gotten much more efficient, thus it might be taxed nominally.

Penalize buying into a fad, essentially.  But maybe that's got disadvantages too, as it would restrict the natural growth of new energy sources.  

You can't see a problem with interfering with the free market and then funding a bureaucracy that never shrinks (until it implodes as Rome did from 1.3 million to 30,000 population)?

Tax by definition is corruption.

Until you socialists figure that out, you will always doom society to repeat the megadeath, totalitarian end games of repeating bouts of collectivism.

When will you learn that top-down planning does not anneal?

[niothor]

The Spanish solar taxes.etc were imposed by the Socialist government (led by PSOE). This is not an one-off incident. They created many similar crazy taxes. No wonder they were demolished during the 2011 elections.

In the interests of maximum efficiency....

I can't see a problem with taxing people who buy and use INEFFICIENT types of power generating equipment.   This would include numerous styles of so called "green or renewable" energy implementations.   PV solar has gotten much more efficient, thus it might be taxed nominally.

Penalize buying into a fad, essentially.  But maybe that's got disadvantages too, as it would restrict the natural growth of new energy sources.  

You can't see a problem with interfering with the free market and then funding a bureaucracy that never shrinks (until it implodes as Rome did from 1.3 million to 30,000 population)?

Tax by definition is corruption.

Until you socialists figure that out, you will always doom society to repeat the megadeath, totalitarian end games of repeating bouts of collectivism.

When will you learn that top-down planning does not anneal?

There was no real free market in the energy sector in Spain from the start.
Factories were forced to buy a certain amount of green energy while solar and wind suppliers got an insane amount of government subsides via the green certificates.

This whole thing happened also in my country. The result? My electric bill went almost 75% because of those green but rather inefficient systems.

And the worst thing is that you have to maintain also the traditional ways of producing energy (coal/oil/gas) on standby any moment if ut's night and the winds stops.

So a coal plant will have the same maintenance cost but with less than half of the real production.
It's like forcing an air line to fly half of it's flights with 10 passengers. And forcing the rest of them to go by bus.

The problem is perhaps best illustrated by the renewables sector. The Zapatero government created a series of premiums and subsidies to give solar, wind and biomass technologies a start. But even producers accept that this approach has hindered rather than helped. "I agree that things got out of control in the solar sector," says Jorge Morales, who owns a plant producing solar energy. "But that is just one line in a book filled with idiocies and scandals."

The amount was set by consulting bodies such as the CNE, but the legislation covering payment was vague, meaning that solar energy capacity quickly reached 2,900 megawatts, instead of the 400 initially proposed.


Private, small-scale investors were encouraged to buy into solar energy parks, although speculators looking to move their money out of construction also moved in. The result was a surplus of very expensive energy. To make matters worse, the government slammed the brakes on a sector that had already cost the taxpayer billions of euros.