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Author Topic: [ANN][MRO] Monero - an anonymous coin based on CryptoNote technology  (Read 23396 times)
lemier
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April 24, 2014, 12:44:20 PM
 #101

I'm ready to develop new fork that will suit us all.
Waiting for your thoughts there: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=582746
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smooth
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April 24, 2014, 12:44:59 PM
 #102

I'm ready to develop new fork that will suit us all.
Waiting for your thoughts there: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=582080.80

Link messed up?
lemier
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April 24, 2014, 12:47:00 PM
 #103

I'm ready to develop new fork that will suit us all.
Waiting for your thoughts there: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=582080.80

Link messed up?


My bad, sorry. Now it's ok.
thankful_for_today
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April 24, 2014, 12:47:28 PM
 #104

But I'm ok about emission change in case majority will agree. I'm just against existing balance changes. Not because of my personal balance (in case we will change emission I will send 50% of my balance for giveaway) but because other people balances aren't to be changed without their own decisions.

If you cut the rewards in half then the value of existing coins double. This is exactly the same as early adopters voting to grant themselves matching free coins, which close to the definition of a premine. You recognize this and that's why you are volunteering to donate 50% of your coins. I volunteered to do something similar during the meeting (there is a log somewhere so this can be verified). But a voluntary system like that won't work because there will likely be greedy short-sighted people who don't do it.

If we have a public donation process and we get virtually all the early adopter coins donated this way, then it could work. But if not then this will not work.


Emission formula can be changed the way that will not result in immediate halving block reward but still will change curve slope. This way previous coins will not be considered as instamine and curve will be much better. Actually the effect of such a change will be that block reward descrease speed will be a bit faster.  Is this a solution?

Sounds plausible, but I'm not sure. You still may end up with a lot of coins going to early adopters. If you don't cut the rewards quickly and significantly, then its more and more coins continuing to go to early adopters, making the problem worse. We considered increasing the cap as a solution, but that means exceeding the size of uint64 for atomic units. That seemed like a mess.

There are certainly all types of curves though. We can consider alternatives.


Can you post alternatives you consider plausible here?

Vote for BitMonero on Comkort exchange: https://comkort.com/vote
BTC: 1F1Ryrc2gvJQsVNTS5xvCxKugMjvbFRzX4
smooth
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April 24, 2014, 12:54:12 PM
 #105

I'm not sure what to do about the curve, I will think about that, and maybe others have ideas.

But how about some kind of crowdfunding solution.

We try to raise, say 80% of he extra coins (40% of total coins in circulation) as donations for a fundraiser. If we don't reach the goal, everyone gets their coins back, everything stays in terms of reward curve, and those of us who want a slow, bitcoin-like schedule just move to a new coin. If we get 80% of the extra coins donated, then we cut the rewards. Yes, up to 20% freeloaders get to keep their extra coins, but that's at least a much smaller premine. Maybe not 100% perfect but the fundraiser could do some good (bounties for GUI wallet, etc.), this could still come out as a net gain for the coin.

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April 24, 2014, 01:03:01 PM
 #106

Luke, I have news from your Father!

Bytecoin needs new super-logo as all coins, so I announce the logo contest.

There is the link to special thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=582743!

Logo contest will be ended May, 12 at 00:00. After that our community will vote for favorites (I will create a vote) and a decision will be made in 24 hours.

Reward for winner is 2,000,000 BCN! Today 2 mln BCN is approximately equal to 0.4 BTC.

Ready, steady, go!


thankful_for_today
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April 24, 2014, 01:25:09 PM
 #107

I'm not sure what to do about the curve, I will think about that, and maybe others have ideas.

But how about some kind of crowdfunding solution.

We try to raise, say 80% of he extra coins (40% of total coins in circulation) as donations for a fundraiser. If we don't reach the goal, everyone gets their coins back, everything stays in terms of reward curve, and those of us who want a slow, bitcoin-like schedule just move to a new coin. If we get 80% of the extra coins donated, then we cut the rewards. Yes, up to 20% freeloaders get to keep their extra coins, but that's at least a much smaller premine. Maybe not 100% perfect but the fundraiser could do some good (bounties for GUI wallet, etc.), this could still come out as a net gain for the coin.


And what is the ideal emission curve?

Vote for BitMonero on Comkort exchange: https://comkort.com/vote
BTC: 1F1Ryrc2gvJQsVNTS5xvCxKugMjvbFRzX4
knightcoin
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April 24, 2014, 02:00:26 PM
 #108

strange ... just search on internet and find this ..




I think it's cool that "cubic B" also reminds me number 8 ... 1 byte = 8 bit Wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte

http://www.introversion.co.uk/
mit/x11 licence 18.x/16|o|3ffe ::71
jasemoney
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April 24, 2014, 02:31:00 PM
 #109

A vote system works, Miners and holders, anyone with a daemon open can vote.  Any holders not paying attention can be reached via the trading thread... Its not like the coins spread far from the tree.  Who would be running a node and not mining and not hear about a change?  Isn't there a way to broadcast messages to the daemon I may be wrong, but if there is just put a repeating statement in there for the next few days thet either people will participate in a voting structure, or to come here and see whats up.

$MAID & $BTC other than that some short hodls and some long held garbage.
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April 24, 2014, 02:34:38 PM
 #110

I generally agree with smooth. I just dont want another fork. I am starting getting bored of cryptos dividing themselves all the time...

please, find a solution Cheesy
cocoakrispies
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April 24, 2014, 03:01:31 PM
 #111

I generally agree with smooth. I just dont want another fork. I am starting getting bored of cryptos dividing themselves all the time...

please, find a solution Cheesy

This seems as if we've uncovered something that risks both seriously damaging this coin, and quite possibly creating a fork for no real reason.

Rather than debate amongst just ourselves, why doesn't someone introduce this coin to CN on their forum like I've seen asked many times in the last week?

Following that, perhaps they will be able to help us mold the wheat and chessboard problem into a stretched exponential that more closely matches the bitcoin growth trajectory?

It's clearly not as simple as "change an 18 to a 20 or 21", this requires a pretty detailed analysis that's going to demand more than data tables and 20 hours . . and very likely the experience that naturally came with having discussed this many times over the last two years will be an invaluable insight.

I do have to admit ... choosing Bitcoin's exact path as your desired goal may prove to be an arbitrary choice, as it's not really bounded by natural laws . . but if you're willing to accept that that emission is natural and the correct way a cryptocurrency in 2014+ should progress then by all means make the choice.

I have full confidence in both the intelligence and competence of the present group, that we can avoid a total fork and come out better as a whole. So, please, someone show me that you've at least mentioned this to CN?
David Latapie
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April 24, 2014, 03:50:23 PM
Last edit: April 24, 2014, 04:12:49 PM by David Latapie
 #112

Relaunch with a GPU algorithm unless a Myriadcoin style PoW setup can be achieved.  Name the last successful CPU only coin...it doesn't exist (no, Bitcoin doesn't count).
Litecoin.

Remember, Litecoin was done exactly for this purpose: GPU-hostile, that's why they used Scrypt (source). As they said, they wanted it to be fair.

Plus, remember that Cryptonote also has at least two other advantages:
- ring signatures
- no-fixed-limit (well, less than bitcoin)

will there be any other changes? hard-fork with reduced emission?
do you want to orginize smth like the "core dev team" or the "Secret Monero Community"? why does thankful_for _today as main dev doesn't participate in discussion?
everything i see there is pretty strange. just like bytecoin (BCN)  Grin
ATM, #bitmonero @freenode. We'll probably create a #monero channel eventually.

When people try to CPU mine and earn 1 penny a day due to botnets, most people cease to bother doing so, and the coin dies from lack of interest.
I don't have a machine with a decent CPU. Does it mean I will forever banned of mining and will have to resort to buying? Talk about fairness. What about the increasingly growing mobile phone and tablet-only population?

Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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uvt9
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April 24, 2014, 04:06:12 PM
 #113

Can botnet pose a threat to other miners of this coin ? It is CPU mining so there is a chance that hackers turn their botnet into a mining farm, that would be unfair for miners. I know program run on 64 bit OS only but there are decent number of infected PC are 64-bit.

I hope you launch an official website for this project soon.
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April 24, 2014, 04:08:00 PM
 #114

I don't have a machine with a decent CPU. Does it mean I will forever banned of mining and will have to resort to buying? Talk about fairness. What about the increasingly growing mobile phone and tablet-only population?

it's only fair that crappy hardware makes for poor mining...
David Latapie
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April 24, 2014, 04:11:53 PM
Last edit: April 24, 2014, 04:25:32 PM by David Latapie
 #115

Copy coin?
Fuck-ninja-premine coin (read about Bytecoin operating silently since 2012).

I don't have a machine with a decent CPU. Does it mean I will forever banned of mining and will have to resort to buying? Talk about fairness. What about the increasingly growing mobile phone and tablet-only population?
it's only fair that crappy hardware makes for poor mining...
You have crappy hardware, you deserve to suck.
You have a crappy job, you deserve to suck.
Sound way too much like social darwinism to me. I don't believe crypto should follow the "rich get richer" scheme. On top of hurting most people sense of justice (and some animals too, experiment have been done on this, Economic inequality does more harm than good). I am in for the society, not just for my petty wallet. I refuse to accept as a fact that crypto must leave behind poor people.

Very rough website online, monero.cc (in case you asked, the domain name was voted on IRC, like the crypto name and its code). Webdesigner, webmaster, writers... wanted.
The way of voting shall be explained there

Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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knightcoin
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April 24, 2014, 04:43:29 PM
 #116

Hell, I started get pissed ...

Every time I refresh (in about every 5 mim) I receive about 200 new blocks ..

When I try to mining I always get error:
mining has NOT been started: possible lost connection to daemon ..


http://www.introversion.co.uk/
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cocoakrispies
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April 24, 2014, 04:44:23 PM
 #117

You have crappy hardware, you deserve to suck.
You have a crappy job, you deserve to suck.
Sound way too much like social darwinism to me. I don't believe crypto should follow the "rich get richer" scheme. On top of hurting most people sense of justice (and some animals too, experiment have been done on this, Economic inequality does more harm than good). I am in for the society, not just for my petty wallet. I refuse to accept as a fact that crypto must leave behind poor people.

Thoughts like this, misinterpreted, are the very face of evil. Without an incentive to prosper, what means do I have by which I would ever share you my thoughts?

It's not that you have crappy hardware, it's that you purchased the very best your money could afford. You are rewarded accordingly.

It's not that you have a crappy job, but that that is the best job your mind is suited to -- based on your own capability. Again, you are rewarded accordingly.

The situation you are in is reliant on you in this scheme, not that society dictated that you deserve them. That is the world I see with cryptocurrencies.

By your stated logic, you fail to understand that money is just a tool that we have all agreed on to be the very representation that you have done work. Because you have less of it does not mean that you should have more of it. I'll not have that logic. Because your mind is capable of being in control of more of it, is the reason you should have more of it.

In this sense, any monetary system will leave behind those that do not wish to contribute . . not those that do not have a wallet of a certain size.

Are you on par with this logic, or will I be expecting you to raise questions of income redistribution next? The article you quoted explains that when the gap becomes too large, there are problems. Not that a gap exists at all.

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April 24, 2014, 04:44:42 PM
 #118

I've just downloaded Windows binaries and daemon is syncing. I have few technical questions:

- Where is the blockchain stored in my computer (Windows/Linux/OSX) ?
- Can i copy whole blockchain to another computer with another wallet so i don't have to download blockchain again ?
- About mining, can i mine MRO on another computer and point the rewards to a random address (using the command posted on OP) of my own without having that wallet on that mining computer ?

I also notice that there was blocks generated 12 days ago (in daemon) but the coin is launched on 18th which is 6 days ago ?
David Latapie
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April 24, 2014, 05:05:03 PM
 #119

Hell, I started get pissed ...

Every time I refresh (in about every 5 mim) I receive about 200 new blocks ..

When I try to mining I always get error:
mining has NOT been started: possible lost connection to daemon ..
That's normal. Syncing takes time and you can't mine as long as syncing is not done. Yes, it is frustrating, I know Smiley Avoid closing down the daemon, even if you plan to start it up again two minutes later. For unknown reasons, it always take time to resync, even if you properly stopped the daemon with the "exit" command.

Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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mickey_miner
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April 24, 2014, 05:07:50 PM
 #120

I've just downloaded Windows binaries and daemon is syncing. I have few technical questions:

- Where is the blockchain stored in my computer (Windows/Linux/OSX) ?
- Can i copy whole blockchain to another computer with another wallet so i don't have to download blockchain again ?
- About mining, can i mine MRO on another computer and point the rewards to a random address (using the command posted on OP) of my own without having that wallet on that mining computer ?

I also notice that there was blocks generated 12 days ago (in daemon) but the coin is launched on 18th which is 6 days ago ?

On windows  Blockchain stored appdata/roaming like most coin but you have to save from app.

On linux blockchain stored /home/**user**/.bitmonero

Wallet bin file stored in directory you run simplewallet from.

You can copy blockchain no problem

You not need wallet on mining computer.  Just point miner to wallet as outline OP


Please someone correct if I wrong.






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