AI Coin Development Diary

[bybitcoin]

Your business development model resembles Ripple.

[1714909373]

1714909373

[1714909373]

1714909373

[Melbustus]

The company is the sole miner of AI Coin. The 7,200 aicoins created each day will be sold on an exchange or otherwise directly paid for expenses.
...

Wait... What happened to:

Will the initial distribution of wealth in Bitcoin-PoS be exactly as per the unspent outputs in the bitcoin blockchain at a certain point in time in the future, or will you consider redistribution of wealth if you find popular support for it?

I would keep the blockchain as is....

Edit: cuz I'll support a project which preserves the effective scarcity of bitcoin (if the tech, etc, is good), thereby supporting the idea that cryptocurrency can be scarce and therefore valuable.

But if you are creating an alt-coin that doesn't tie into bitcoin's ledger (ie, the utxo-set), you are directly attacking the notion of crypto-scarcity, and therefore the idea that crypto-currency can be good money. In which case I will vocally not support this project. And FWIW, I've been approached in the real-world by your representatives.

[Joshuar]

The company is the sole miner of AI Coin. The 7,200 aicoins created each day will be sold on an exchange or otherwise directly paid for expenses.
...

Wait... What happened to:

Will the initial distribution of wealth in Bitcoin-PoS be exactly as per the unspent outputs in the bitcoin blockchain at a certain point in time in the future, or will you consider redistribution of wealth if you find popular support for it?

I would keep the blockchain as is....

Edit: cuz I'll support a project which preserves the effective scarcity of bitcoin (if the tech, etc, is good), thereby supporting the idea that cryptocurrency can be scarce and therefore valuable.

But if you are creating an alt-coin that doesn't tie into bitcoin's ledger (ie, the utxo-set), you are directly attacking the notion of crypto-scarcity, and therefore the idea that crypto-currency can be good money. In which case I will vocally not support this project. And FWIW, I've been approached in the real-world by your representatives.

Lost coins would have to be accounted for wouldn't they? Be too scarce and you risk losing the title of "currency"(Lack of liquidity). I find it odd that many people here use the word currency, but through their arguments, instead, support the notion of commodity. I know that the "too scarce" aspect would be eliminated if we used the term "bits" instead of "bitcoin"(denominations), but just talking in terms of full bit/coins.

I don't believe following bitcoin's distribution model is the best idea if you want to create a "currency". Odd I know, haha.

[Melbustus]

...
I don't believe following bitcoin's distribution model is the best idea if you want to create a "currency". Odd I know, haha.

This is mostly a separate discussion, but either complete-information monetary policies are best, or human-controlled ones are. The idea that one tweak of some complete-info algorithmic policy is better than another tweak of a complete-info algorithmic monetary policy is ridiculous and fundamentally misunderstands what monetary policy does.

Specifically, monetary policy in the central banking era seeks to attenuate peaks and troughs of natural economic activity through explicit human action. The overarching assumption, which is probably correct, is that the instantaneous supply optimum for some future date cannot be known with much certainty beforehand. So the solution the world has come to today is to give control over that supply number to a studious committee of economic custodians. The idea is that they'll be better able to determine today's optimal supply than some pre-set policy.

Bitcoin changes the question entirely and simply posits that maybe perfect knowledge of future supply, by all economic participants, will allow for more optimal allocation (by businesses/humans) today, and that perhaps this will more naturally attenuate the tendency of economies to generate large peaks and troughs. Whether you have a monetary policy with a fixed supply, 2% inflationary forever, or something else, shouldn't matter in this context so long as all economic participants have complete knowledge of the dynamics. So trying to tweak the alg doesn't matter.

But adding alt-coins that don't support the dominant monetary policy (bitcoin's) does matter, because that action implicitly erodes the perfect-information base of this entire experiment.

[Joshuar]

...
I don't believe following bitcoin's distribution model is the best idea if you want to create a "currency". Odd I know, haha.

This is mostly a separate discussion, but either complete-information monetary policies are best, or human-controlled ones are. The idea that one tweak of some complete-info algorithmic policy is better than another tweak of a complete-info algorithmic monetary policy is ridiculous and fundamentally misunderstands what monetary policy does.

Specifically, monetary policy in the central banking era seeks to attenuate peaks and troughs of natural economic activity through explicit human action. The overarching assumption, which is probably correct, is that the instantaneous supply optimum for some future date cannot be known with much certainty beforehand. So the solution the world has come to today is to give control over that supply number to a studious committee of economic custodians. The idea is that they'll be better able to determine today's optimal supply than some pre-set policy.

Bitcoin changes the question entirely and simply posits that maybe perfect knowledge of future supply, by all economic participants, will allow for more optimal allocation (by businesses/humans) today, and that perhaps this will more naturally attenuate the tendency of economies to generate large peaks and troughs. Whether you have a monetary policy with a fixed supply, 2% inflationary forever, or something else, shouldn't matter in this context so long as all economic participants have complete knowledge of the dynamics. So trying to tweak the alg doesn't matter.

But adding alt-coins that don't support the dominant monetary policy (bitcoin's) does matter, because that action implicitly erodes the perfect-information base of this entire experiment.

Is there a alt-coin that is a clone of Bitcoin, but finished it's mining period already? It would be interesting to look at. But, yes, I get your argument and agree with it. I  think we may be on the same page though. You're talking about knowing the total supply beforehand(Unlike Fiat), that I agree with. What I originally referred to was the exact copying of Bitcoin's distribution(from satoshi's mining close to 1million xbt to now) onto an altcoin 1:1 so that all the altcoin's addresses and coins were proportional to that of Bitcoin. Basically the altcoin would have bitcoin's entire distribution from release to now, "cloned" onto it.

[SlipperySlope]

The company is the sole miner of AI Coin. The 7,200 aicoins created each day will be sold on an exchange or otherwise directly paid for expenses.
...

Wait... What happened to:

Will the initial distribution of wealth in Bitcoin-PoS be exactly as per the unspent outputs in the bitcoin blockchain at a certain point in time in the future, or will you consider redistribution of wealth if you find popular support for it?

I would keep the blockchain as is....

Edit: cuz I'll support a project which preserves the effective scarcity of bitcoin (if the tech, etc, is good), thereby supporting the idea that cryptocurrency can be scarce and therefore valuable.

But if you are creating an alt-coin that doesn't tie into bitcoin's ledger (ie, the utxo-set), you are directly attacking the notion of crypto-scarcity, and therefore the idea that crypto-currency can be good money. In which case I will vocally not support this project. And FWIW, I've been approached in the real-world by your representatives.

In my May 2014 whitepaper, I proposed a dramatic change to the way that the Bitcoin blockchain is secured. I changed my approach due to the prevailing wisdom among core developers that radical innovation should take place in altcoins first. AI Coin would have to be very successful in order to grow to the point of diluting Bitcoin's market cap.

Sorry to lose your vocal support, but happy that our community has reached out to you already.

We are attending the Texas Bitcoin Conference, and will launch at Inside Bitcoins New York, April 27-29. I would be glad to meetup and discuss cryptocurrency.

http://ai-coin.org

[coine_smithe]

Wow I can't believe you're finally making this! I commented in this thread before but my comment is gone... Do you have a thread in the announcements page? Also, I feel like the website and the logo on the Twitter page could use some work. The logo on the Twitter page looks very poor. I can recommend some people who do graphic and web design for alts if you want.

The logo needs to be more modern and professional. The current gold one looks very cheesy like many of the scam coins.

The website is too convoluted with flash animations. It should be straightforward and graphically professional for a coin of this caliber.

If you want to contact me on Twitter my name is @check__it__out. I check bitcointalk.org less frequently and I don't get notifications on my phone either.

[coinmaster222]

Thought that myself get a graphic/web dev and get a more professional logo and website it looks pretty shitty just now for a really good coin

[SlipperySlope]

Wow I can't believe you're finally making this! I commented in this thread before but my comment is gone... Do you have a thread in the announcements page? Also, I feel like the website and the logo on the Twitter page could use some work. The logo on the Twitter page looks very poor. I can recommend some people who do graphic and web design for alts if you want.

The logo needs to be more modern and professional. The current gold one looks very cheesy like many of the scam coins.

The website is too convoluted with flash animations. It should be straightforward and graphically professional for a coin of this caliber.

If you want to contact me on Twitter my name is @check__it__out. I check bitcointalk.org less frequently and I don't get notifications on my phone either.

Thought that myself get a graphic/web dev and get a more professional logo and website it looks pretty shitty just now for a really good coin

AI Coin's forum has our old blue logo. Do you like that one better?  I plan to post your constructive comments on our forum where they can be discussed by our most enthusiastic supporters, one of whom is a web designer and branded our website. AI Coin Inc has a rather transparent management style and I thank you for helping us to be better.

We have a modest budget for advertising before launch. Do readers have an opinion of where to advertise? CoinDesk has a relatively large number of visitors for example.

[coine_smithe]

Wow I can't believe you're finally making this! I commented in this thread before but my comment is gone... Do you have a thread in the announcements page? Also, I feel like the website and the logo on the Twitter page could use some work. The logo on the Twitter page looks very poor. I can recommend some people who do graphic and web design for alts if you want.

The logo needs to be more modern and professional. The current gold one looks very cheesy like many of the scam coins.

The website is too convoluted with flash animations. It should be straightforward and graphically professional for a coin of this caliber.

If you want to contact me on Twitter my name is @check__it__out. I check bitcointalk.org less frequently and I don't get notifications on my phone either.

Thought that myself get a graphic/web dev and get a more professional logo and website it looks pretty shitty just now for a really good coin

AI Coin's forum has our old blue logo. Do you like that one better?  I plan to post your constructive comments on our forum where they can be discussed by our most enthusiastic supporters, one of whom is a web designer and branded our website. AI Coin Inc has a rather transparent management style and I thank you for helping us to be better.

We have a modest budget for advertising before launch. Do readers have an opinion of where to advertise? CoinDesk has a relatively large number of visitors for example.

Dash's logo is the type of logo that is very popular not only in crypto but in general in graphic design in world corperations.
http://coinmarketcap.com/static/img/coins/16x16/darkcoin.png

Or Microsoft's logo is not letter based but a shape.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-X9lWxWlQO9g/UDZklbBZSfI/AAAAAAAAI1o/8J1ZDMUMlI8/s1600/microsoft%252Bnew%252Blogo.png&imgrefurl=http://www.techpinas.com/2012/08/new-logo-of-microsoft-corporation.html&h=130&w=387&tbnid=GSBxIHi2vDOthM:&zoom=1&tbnh=50&tbnw=151&usg=__goTFDX3QVtIyKLtgreZTw1CpWN0=&docid=kpTyvfWMExeHsM&itg=1

Overall you need to distance yourself from the "coin" shape. It's a cheesy altcoin meme that devalues your image. It should be a simple shape or two letters "AI" floating on a white background.

As far as the site, look at Monero's:
https://getmonero.org/home

It has a menu bar up top and a simple, clean, professional interface. It should be a quick and simple reference for people to learn about your product. You current site is convoluted and requires people to scroll through flash animations that look cheesy and waste their time. A lot of people have mobile devices that will struggle to even load that. I will give you some references for someone who can do the work for you.

As far as promotion Coindesk is great. I would go with them first if you have to choose one. Also posting in /r/bitcoin yourself as the lead dev isn't a bad idea. They are receptive to legitimate projects such as this. It's a great promotional vehicle. Storjcoin and Monero are well received there and I think your project will be as well.

I'll add more later as I get it.

EDIT: Just got a referral for you from my team: http://www.cryptodesign.net/
He did Mintpal's logo etc. Look at his website for an idea of simple and effective design.

[SlipperySlope]

Dash's logo is the type of logo that is very popular not only in crypto but in general in graphic design in world corperations.
http://coinmarketcap.com/static/img/coins/16x16/darkcoin.png

Or Microsoft's logo is not letter based but a shape.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-X9lWxWlQO9g/UDZklbBZSfI/AAAAAAAAI1o/8J1ZDMUMlI8/s1600/microsoft%252Bnew%252Blogo.png&imgrefurl=http://www.techpinas.com/2012/08/new-logo-of-microsoft-corporation.html&h=130&w=387&tbnid=GSBxIHi2vDOthM:&zoom=1&tbnh=50&tbnw=151&usg=__goTFDX3QVtIyKLtgreZTw1CpWN0=&docid=kpTyvfWMExeHsM&itg=1

Overall you need to distance yourself from the "coin" shape. It's a cheesy altcoin meme that devalues your image. It should be a simple shape or two letters "AI" floating on a white background.

As far as the site, look at Monero's:
https://getmonero.org/home

It has a menu bar up top and a simple, clean, professional interface. It should be a quick and simple reference for people to learn about your product. You current site is convoluted and requires people to scroll through flash animations that look cheesy and waste their time. A lot of people have mobile devices that will struggle to even load that. I will give you some references for someone who can do the work for you.

As far as promotion Coindesk is great. I would go with them first if you have to choose one. Also posting in /r/bitcoin yourself as the lead dev isn't a bad idea. They are receptive to legitimate projects such as this. It's a great promotional vehicle. Storjcoin and Monero are well received there and I think your project will be as well.

I'll add more later as I get it.

EDIT: Just got a referral for you from my team: http://www.cryptodesign.net/
He did Mintpal's logo etc. Look at his website for an idea of simple and effective design.

Thanks for your awesome contribution! It is emotionally difficult this close to launch to go back over work we thought was accomplished, but as our advisors tell us - branding is very important. I am taking this up with my co-founder before mentioning it on our dedicated forum.

[SlipperySlope]

Thanks a lot for your constructive feedback!

Our team agree today to remove the animated robot graphic and make the ai-coin.org website better with respect to an audience beyond gamers. Plus we will do a better job for mobile.

Our inspiration sites that look great on large screen and on mobile too ...

Monero - https://getmonero.org/home (one page without vertical scrolling)

Ripple - https://ripple.com/ (aimed at financial institutions, good use of customer recommendations which highlight Ripple benefits, my favorite but obviously expensive)

Dash - https://www.dashpay.io/ (scrolling with menu tabs, significant rebranding of privacy-centric Darkcoin)

[biggus dickus]

The company is the sole miner of AI Coin. The 7,200 aicoins created each day will be sold on an exchange or otherwise directly paid for expenses.
...

Wait... What happened to:

Will the initial distribution of wealth in Bitcoin-PoS be exactly as per the unspent outputs in the bitcoin blockchain at a certain point in time in the future, or will you consider redistribution of wealth if you find popular support for it?

I would keep the blockchain as is....

Edit: cuz I'll support a project which preserves the effective scarcity of bitcoin (if the tech, etc, is good), thereby supporting the idea that cryptocurrency can be scarce and therefore valuable.

But if you are creating an alt-coin that doesn't tie into bitcoin's ledger (ie, the utxo-set), you are directly attacking the notion of crypto-scarcity, and therefore the idea that crypto-currency can be good money. In which case I will vocally not support this project. And FWIW, I've been approached in the real-world by your representatives.

I also read it that A.I. Coin would tie into bitcoin's ledger (ie, the utxo-set). I'm disappointed its turned into another IPO. Another IPO/ICO is the last thing most people want considering all the rip offs over the previous 12 months.

[drawingthesun]

Sorry if this has already been answered.

Three questions:

1) Was there any consideration to create the coin with eternal inflation of <1%? To keep future generations in hundreds of years interested?

2) Are there any anonymous capabilities built into this coin?

3) Will this coin have side chains enabled? (I feel this is important to compete with Bitcoin, if Bitcoin does one day gain side chains)

[drawingthesun]

I also read it that A.I. Coin would tie into bitcoin's ledger (ie, the utxo-set). I'm disappointed its turned into another IPO. Another IPO/ICO is the last thing most people want considering all the rip offs over the previous 12 months.

Most coins end up turning into IPO/ICO due to the developers wanting instant riches.

My suggestion:

Copy the bitcoin coin release so far 1:1 and IPO/ICO the leftover coins from the ones that haven't been mined yet.
This keeps all the current Bitcoin players in the game and creates a larger community incentive.

You still have 7 million coins to sell at IPO/ICO .

[bybitcoin]

No cap, the total coins created each day will be owned and then distributed or sold by a company that plans to get bitlicence and follow its upcoming regulation rules as soon as it becomes available.
By this plan, even Ripple would look more decentralized and user-driven than this one!

[TheReaper]

No cap, the total coins created each day will be owned and then distributed or sold by a company that plans to get bitlicence and follow its upcoming regulation rules as soon as it becomes available.
By this plan, even Ripple would look more decentralized and user-driven than this one!

Sorry, but that is wrong:

there is a cap of 21 millions coin
50 coins created every 10 minutes
www.ai-coin.org
minting peers are not owned by company and are spread out globally over many continents.
a percentage of coins are sent back to company and the rest kept by peer nodes not owned by ai coin inc.
basically, a new type of mining.

[SlipperySlope]

No cap, the total coins created each day will be owned and then distributed or sold by a company that plans to get bitlicence and follow its upcoming regulation rules as soon as it becomes available.
By this plan, even Ripple would look more decentralized and user-driven than this one!

Sorry, but that is wrong:

there is a cap of 21 millions coin
50 coins created every 10 minutes
www.ai-coin.org
minting peers are not owned by company and are spread out globally over many continents.
a percentage of coins are sent back to company and the rest kept by peer nodes not owned by ai coin inc.
basically, a new type of mining.

It turns out that if the company owns all the coins, even for just the day they are created, it would be an "administrator" of a central repository from which tokens are issued and redeemed according to FinCEN guidance published last October. We knew this and assumed that we could obtain the money services business licences in the 48 US States where they are required as we progressed after launch. Our legal advice now is that we cannot launch under the previous business plan as that entails a legal risk in the USA.

Reaper mentions the new plan, which is to have a conventional altcoin minting method whereby independent operators create the new aicoins each day and pay a software licence fee to the company, which in turn promotes and develops AI Coin for the benefit of operators, current and future holders. Even this business plan is subject to tweaking, as the software license may create an situation in which the deal between the company and its independent operators creates what the US SEC views as a security, which is subject to onerous regulation. As a lay person, my reading of the regulation and court decisions is that because the company is not the *sole* provider of effort which makes the deal valuable, then the deal is not a security. Instead I believe it is similar to retail store franchise agreements in the USA in which a share of store revenues is sent back to the franchisor. The analogy is that aicoin mining operators, its super peers, must perform effort too in order for the deal to be valuable. AI Coin Inc is seeking the advice of attorneys who know this sort of law. Fortunately, our president works in New York City, and networks conveniently with such law firms. If the software license becomes a poor choice due to SEC regulations, then another method to try for the desired revenue split would be to have a distinguished super peer owned by the company that gets more turns to create aicoins than the other super peers.

[drawingthesun]

... pay a software licence fee to the company...

This coin will not take off under that model.
What will happen, is that all of your technology will be copied and used in a clone that will take off.

Of course, you can get around this by making the coin closed source, in which case I doubt you'll ever sell one license fee.

[SlipperySlope]

... pay a software licence fee to the company...

This coin will not take off under that model.
What will happen, is that all of your technology will be copied and used in a clone that will take off.

Of course, you can get around this by making the coin closed source, in which case I doubt you'll ever sell one license fee.

Well, what is worse from your point of view is that the intelligent agent software has a provisional patent application pending. Most of the source code will be available for inspection, and could be copied and used in jurisdictions that do not permit nor honor software patents. Each of our peers wraps a branded recent version of Bitcoin Core, which will always be open source.

AI Coin's technology allows for instant spending of received aicoins. This is zero confirmations. No Finney attacks, no undoing transactions, nor double spend fraud. The network has a rationally designed topology. In only two hops, a transaction from a wallet reaches the super peer whose turn it is to create the next new block. That gives worldwide subsecond response time.

AI Coin Inc, the company behind its cryptocurrency, optimally spends its majority share of issued aicoins for promotion and development. There is no substantial expense for electricity nor specialized mining equipment. Proof-of-Stake, although mentioned in our May 2014 whitepaper, is actually not necessary for the current implementation, which does not routinely have disagreement. Instead we will have a human-in-the-loop to oversee the distributed intelligent software agents that operate the network. Super peer operators on several continents will take turns monitoring the network and each other.

What will make this coin take off, if indeed it does, is simply that a single company, engaging its enthusiastic community, spending most of the issued aicoins with the single goal of optimising the benefits for current and future users, succeeds in executing its mission.