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Author Topic: [PROPOSAL] Give proof of identity to your customers  (Read 3731 times)
Tuxavant
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January 17, 2012, 04:28:36 AM
 #21

merchant doesn't present receipt until payment is made. merchant signs receipt before presenting it to customer for their signature.

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DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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January 17, 2012, 04:56:14 AM
 #22

merchant doesn't present receipt until payment is made. merchant signs receipt before presenting it to customer for their signature.

The struck part is useless.  Yes that is what this thread is about.  The merchants signature is only useful if there is some mechanism to validate it.  One would also want some mechanism to validate merchant BEFORE paying.  Otherwise you pay, and merchant doesn't sign receipt.  Oops you have no proof of nothing.
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January 17, 2012, 10:52:52 AM
 #23

update: here is a more detailed proposal for the proposed URI syntax: http://ecdsa.org/bitcoin_URIs.html

The Bitcoin client should keep the signature in its records.


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EhVedadoOAnonimato
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January 17, 2012, 12:58:43 PM
 #24

Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't https already signs every response sent by the server?
Or authenticity is assumed due to the knowledge of the common symmetric key used for encryption?
ThomasV
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January 17, 2012, 01:10:20 PM
 #25

Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't https already signs every response sent by the server?

yes, but that's not practical.
do you keep a record of the webpage and its https signature everytime you do a Bitcoin transaction?

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January 17, 2012, 02:20:51 PM
 #26

Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't https already signs every response sent by the server?

yes, but that's not practical.

It could be practical if you have a browser plugin which saves a https page together with its signature, and that would have a much broader usage. I wonder if such a thing doesn't exist already...
ThomasV
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January 17, 2012, 02:29:56 PM
 #27

Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't https already signs every response sent by the server?

yes, but that's not practical.

It could be practical if you have a browser plugin which saves a https page together with its signature, and that would have a much broader usage. I wonder if such a thing doesn't exist already...

the fact that we don't know if such a thing exists already illustrates my point...
in addition, there are situations where the communication channel is not https, and where signed URIs would still be useful.


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DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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January 17, 2012, 02:57:40 PM
 #28

Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't https already signs every response sent by the server?

yes, but that's not practical.

It could be practical if you have a browser plugin which saves a https page together with its signature, and that would have a much broader usage. I wonder if such a thing doesn't exist already...

the fact that we don't know if such a thing exists already illustrates my point...
in addition, there are situations where the communication channel is not https, and where signed URIs would still be useful.

Also a key thing to remember is we want the payment address signed BEFORE payment.  

We want to prove not just a payment was made but it was made to an address controlled by the merchant/payee and (optionally) for what purpose. 

Example:
D&T paid ThomasV 100 BTC on 01/17/2012.  
I wouldn't want to rely on website as for example  http:thomasV.com and https://tho.masV.com are different identities.  While I could save the pages & signatures for https://tho.masV.com it doesn't prove anything other than I got scammed.

Compare that to a system where I can obtain ThomasV public key in advance and import it into my wallet.  I then get a payment URL which is signed by ThomasV private key.  The wallet can then notify me that I am not just paying a random bitcoin address I am paying an address signed by ThomasV (or warn me if it isn't signed).  Once I make that payment I now have proof of the time (via block timestamp), the entity paid, and the amount.    By including more information in the payment url (as a note) it eliminates the ability to even say  "no that 100 BTC was for an unrelated order.  I loaned him 100 BTC and he was paying me back".   As an example the protocol should allow (optionally) to include a plain text note ("Order # 12345 for 3 HD 5970 graphics cards").

If ThomasV doesn't deliver, delivers the wrong item, or claims nonpayment all those things can be proven false.

TL/DR version:
The goal is a system/protocol that using digital signatures one can obtain proof of payment for a specific transaction.
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January 17, 2012, 04:12:53 PM
 #29

This should be possible with bitcoind 0.5 and Bitcoin-Qt 0.6.

ThomasV
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February 07, 2012, 05:22:08 PM
 #30

I added these features to Electrum.
See the announcement here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50936.msg735942#msg735942

Electrum: the convenience of a web wallet, without the risks
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