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Author Topic: SaveGox.com  (Read 12573 times)
sturle
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May 16, 2014, 05:34:20 PM
 #161

No, in this case the inputs-minus-outputs will still be the original deposit, since those intermediate withdrawals and deposits will cancel out.
Only if you ignore the fee.  My bot paid generous amounts in fees over the years, to put it mildly.
Since MtGOX was not doing what clients thought it was doing, the fee
MtGox certainly did up to some point.

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What if you had two accounts? [...] (If this rule is chosen, I will of course choose not to mention my bot account in my claim.)
I am pretty sure that the court will consider a creditor to be a person (or company), not an account.  Creditors will have to identify themselves and state their claims.

If you thought MtGOX was going bankrupt of course you would not have put your money and coins there in the first place.
There were a lot of speculation and buying and selling MtGox coins all the way up to the collapse.  Some made deposits of large amounts of BTC which they bought at only a few percent of market value.  You can't deny that.  People speculated in the collapse for days until it happened.  Some may have speculated very profitably in the outcome you are suggesting, and may have speculated in yourself.

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People with multiple accounts may try to be smart and claim only accounts where they mostly deposited, omitting those from which they mostly withdrew.  That would be an attempt to defraud the court (like a contractor claiming a debt that was actually paid in cash), which means jail if caught.  For money withdrawals, the risk is too big.  For bitcoin withdrawals, the risk may be smaller but an audit with expert assistance may identify the owner of the omitted account.
The risk is pretty low.  In the beginning you didn't even need to supply an email address to create an account there.  You can always ask a family member to claim the other account, since you may have used the same IP for both most of the time.

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So far we don't know if MtGox's accounting was bogus or not.  Probably not.  The leaked data seems to be in good shape.  We just know they somehow lost a lot of BTC and some fiat, and we still don't know how this happened.  I believe Mark thought he had the BTC until he shut off withdrawals.  Madoff knew all along his books were bogus.
The accounting was bogus in the sense that the coins that clients thought they were buyng and selling and/or the money they thought that Mark was keeping for them  did not actually exist.
We don't even know that, and we don't know when it started.  Could be as simple as lost private keys, which he thought he had stored securely.  The coins still exist, but are worthless for al practical purposes until the private keys are found.  For fiat (and even BC to some extent) there are uncertainties around seized funds and Coinlab.

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JorgeStolfi
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May 24, 2014, 02:58:23 PM
 #162

Still no answer to this question:
Is there a link to that "favorable decision by the US court" about Savegox's plan?  (Not a news article, but the actual court paper?)
Thanks...
Nor to several other questions...

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btc237ftw
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May 24, 2014, 05:43:54 PM
 #163

Should I "participate" and enter my gox related email, and other information?
If I won't, will I be left out of the settlement if such is reached?

I want to participate but I am afraid, with all these hacks and identity thefts going on...
Please advise,

Thank you
JonHolmquist (OP)
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May 30, 2014, 12:29:27 AM
 #164

Should I "participate" and enter my gox related email, and other information?
If I won't, will I be left out of the settlement if such is reached?

I want to participate but I am afraid, with all these hacks and identity thefts going on...
Please advise,

Thank you

We have multiple named and known individuals in the community putting their weight behind this project. Your email and information will be safe with us.

You won't be left out of the settlement, the form on our site is purely to help use communicate with creditors and better communicate their wishes.

JonHolmquist (OP)
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May 30, 2014, 12:30:48 AM
 #165

Still no answer to this question:
Is there a link to that "favorable decision by the US court" about Savegox's plan?  (Not a news article, but the actual court paper?)
Thanks...
Nor to several other questions...


Hey Jorge, sorry about the delay, I've been dealing with some personal issues lately.

Here's the file: http://www.mtgoxsettlement.com/Content/Documents/PartialSettlement.pdf

I'll be posting on SaveGox's blog in the next couple days with a document dump of any information that people following the situation might find useful.


JonHolmquist (OP)
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May 30, 2014, 12:34:51 AM
 #166

Hey guys!

I'm on the SaveGox team. If you guys have questions for the team, please post them.

I'm opening this thread because Goat closed the other one.

Thanks,

-Jon

Will your investment provide enough injection to cover the negative balance of lost deposits if there is one?

If not, then I have a second question.

How will the new exchange offer complete transparency to its books and balances?

Hi Jon. Still seeking answers to these questions.  Will DEPOSITORS receive the full amount of lost deposits back - whether in the form of Bitcoin or FIAT. It appears that your plan will convert Bitcoin to Fiat based on some valuation.

John, now that you are back, can you please answer these questions? Feel free to PM.

They'll receive whatever is left, minus the 10 million that will go into the audit/investigation fund.

Also, they'll get back any recovered funds, if found, minus the bounty.

Lastly, they'll be able to sell their shares in the new company with minimal restrictions.

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May 30, 2014, 12:41:54 AM
 #167

>So he is being given immunity by Sunlot without even issuing a public statement about his role in the collapse?  (He was MtGOX's CFO, is this correct?)
His official title is Business Development Manager. He mainly did advertising/pr.

>Thanks for the clarification.  However, is the intent to exclude the former management of MtGOX from the asset distribution a mere feeling and vague intention, or is Sunlot commiting to that in writing through a legally binding contract/proposal?
I don't understand the law behind it, but I'm confident that if the audit decides that the former management is at fault (how can't they be) then we can withhold their % of the coins.

>By the way, was Sunlot one of the potential MtGOX buyers contacted by Mr. Karpelès before he finally filed for bankruptcy?

Yes. We've contacted him multiple times.

>Again, is Sunlot commiting to this point in writing, in a legally binding document?  Have any of those firms been contacted to confirm that they would accept this task?  (I am asking because a reputable auditing firm will probably refuse to do an audit of something if it thinks that there isn't sufficient reliable data to support a useful conclusion.)

From the proposal: Caveats and Pre-requisites
1. Under this plan, the Supervisor shall appoint and compensate PwC (or equivalent
alternative agreed by Sunlot, if reasonable terms can not be agreed with PwC) to
provide an audit of customer accounts, customer assets, and provide an
accounting report on how Customer Assets were stolen (“Audit”). Sunlot and
Class Counsel shall oversee the Audit and ensuing report.

JonHolmquist (OP)
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May 30, 2014, 12:44:10 AM
 #168

Hello Jon Holmquist?

Could you provide details of how the equity distribution has been calculated?

Thanks.

We came to that number based on discussions with large creditor groups, like the class action in the states and Canada.

JorgeStolfi
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May 30, 2014, 01:31:45 AM
 #169

Is there a link to that "favorable decision by the US court" about Savegox's plan?
Here's the file: http://www.mtgoxsettlement.com/Content/Documents/PartialSettlement.pdf
Thanks!

>So [Mr. Gay-Bouchery] is being given immunity by Sunlot without even issuing a public statement about his role in the collapse?  (He was MtGOX's CFO, is this correct?)
His official title is Business Development Manager. He mainly did advertising/pr.
But when did he became aware that the company was insolvent, and what did he do then? 

>Thanks for the clarification.  However, is the intent to exclude the former management of MtGOX from the asset distribution a mere feeling and vague intention, or is Sunlot commiting to that in writing through a legally binding contract/proposal?
I don't understand the law behind it, but I'm confident that if the audit decides that the former management is at fault (how can't they be) then we can withhold their % of the coins.
This is rather, er, strange.  I understand that in bankruptcy proceedings, claims by the management are invariably considered only after all other creditors have been paid, even if there is no evidence wrongdoing -- because they are "guilty" of the company's failure, at the very least.  Moreover, in the case o MtGOX there clearly were many actions by the management that were unfair to the clients, such as allowing them to deposit and trade without warning them of the insolvency situation.

>Again, is Sunlot commiting to [the audit] point in writing, in a legally binding document?  Have any of those [auditing] firms been contacted to confirm that they would accept this task?  (I am asking because a reputable auditing firm will probably refuse to do an audit of something if it thinks that there isn't sufficient reliable data to support a useful conclusion.)

From the proposal: Caveats and Pre-requisites
1. Under this plan, the Supervisor shall appoint and compensate PwC (or equivalent
alternative agreed by Sunlot, if reasonable terms can not be agreed with PwC) to
provide an audit of customer accounts, customer assets, and provide an
accounting report on how Customer Assets were stolen (“Audit”). Sunlot and
Class Counsel shall oversee the Audit and ensuing report.

I understand this to say "there is no contract with PwC; Sunlot may propose to pay 0.01$ to PwC for the audit, and if PwC does not accept, then Sunlot alone will decide who will do the audit and how it will be done, while the Class Counsel will have to sit and watch."

Anyway, thanks for your answers.  Their former clients can have their opinion, but as a mere inhabitant of the same planet, I must say that I am quite upset at the idea that MtGOX's management may escape impartial investigation, and even be rewarded in the end.   That will only encourage them, or others in similar situations, to do the same thing again, to other victims.  Angry

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June 05, 2014, 04:38:19 AM
 #170

A friendly bump to see if anybody else desires to weigh in prior to Jon H. coming back online to address the last post by JorgeStolfi.
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June 05, 2014, 05:54:51 AM
 #171

A friendly bump to see if anybody else desires to weigh in prior to Jon H. coming back online to address the last post by JorgeStolfi.

I would like to see Japanese and US authorities release what they know before making any decisions on what we should do with the MtGox entity. If authorities are unable to do that, at the very least Nobuaki should make public the current balance sheet and all transactions made in and out of the organization since he took over the entity. Again, BEFORE he takes final input from the public.
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