Bitcoin Forum
June 26, 2019, 05:32:37 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin=Money(?)  (Read 1719 times)
juice101
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1
Merit: 0


View Profile
May 01, 2014, 11:57:18 AM
 #1

I am working on my bachelor's thesis, where I am trying to answer whether Bitcoin qualify to be considered as money. On the empirical part I want to look at the liquidity and velocity to see if it shows behavioral patterns that normally is associated with conventional money.

Now to the question. I have to base the empirical research on a hypothesis, and obviously there is no absolute value of the liquidity and velocity in which a "asset" to be considerate as money.

How could I formulate my hypothesis in a concrete way, to be able to answer my research question?

General thoughts about the topic would also be nice to hear!

(Also, thanks to PETER R)

Mine RVN and with 0% mining fees and get paid in BTC, ETH, XMR or RVN.

www.cudominer.com Get Cudo Miner
Auto coin switching, third-party miners, overclocking and remote management (Win/Linux)
Run from a USB stick or install from an ISO image (Linux)
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1561570357
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1561570357

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1561570357
Reply with quote  #2

1561570357
Report to moderator
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2506
Merit: 1761


Avalon 841 rocks


View Profile
May 01, 2014, 12:57:39 PM
Last edit: May 01, 2014, 04:32:01 PM by philipma1957
 #2

It has been a while since college.  I have to say it is not money. It is a hybrid item. A combination of a piece of gold and a stock.

The USA IRS rulings are treating it as such.


As for behaving like money it values can be very volatile.
Much more subject to huge price swings that have never been seen in a stable currency.
That is more of a commodity behavior. Gold or silver have seen price swings.

 The Hunt brothers  drove silver from 3 to 50 USD around 1980.  It dropped back under 8 USD stayed low had a big jump a few years ago close to 50 and is now down to 20 something USD. I would say BTC follows a pattern more like that.


charts BTC price punch in 1 week for the longest chart.

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/

shows a 15 year chart of silver about halfway down

http://www.silver-coin-values.com/silver-charts/

very similar the 2 year btc to the 15 year silver


I would think that looking at the charts of Gold/ Silver/ Platinum/  Vs BTC     and looking at charts of USD vs GBP and other currency charts would be a starting point.
 It seems to me BTC will behave more like Gold or silver then the USD GBP or Euro would.

The liquidity Is different trading a piece of silver in at a store to purchase something is not common.

Using a BTC account could become common.  I would also consider the effect of various governments attempting to make it not very liquid at all

 ie recent USA IRS rulings now have temporarily made it more difficult to move coins around.

  Of course a good program or app for tracking coins in and out of your possession.

Would solve the  at constriction   of BTC as 'Money' Created by the IRS rulings.

    My background is Accounting and I see the IRS rulings as correct.

  I think of a btc as a piece of gold/or stock more then any other idea of classification.


I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
Erdogan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 896
Merit: 1000



View Profile
May 01, 2014, 06:55:38 PM
 #3

There is no intrinsic value - therefore it has to be money.



░░░░░░░██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████░░░░░░░
████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
░███▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀███░
░███░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░███░

      ████      █████████▄ ▀██████████▀  ▄████████▄       ▄█████████▄     ████ ████       ███             
     ██████     ███    ▀███▄   ████    ▄████▀  ▀█████   ▄████▀   ▀████▄   ████ █████      ███             
    ████████    ███     ████   ████  ▄███▀             ████  ▄███▄  ████  ████ ██████▄    ███             
   ████  ████   ███    ▄███▀   ████  ████             ████           ████ ████ ███ ▀███   ███             
  ▄███    ███▄  █████████▀     ████  ████             ████  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  ████ ████ ███   ███▄ ███            ▀
  ███  ██  ███  ███  ███       ████  ████▄             ████  ▀███▀  ████  ████ ███    ███████   ▄█████▄█ ▄
 ████ ████ ████ ▀███  ███▄     ████   ▀████▄    ▄█████  ▀████▄   ▄████▀   ████ ███     ▀█████   ██    ██ █
████        ████ ▀███  ████    ████     ▀██████████▀      ▀█████████▀     ████ ███       ████ ▄ ▀█████▀█ █

░███░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░███░
░███░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░███░
████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░██████░░░██████░░░██████░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░█████░░░░░████░░░░░█████░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░████░░░░░░░██░░░░░░░████░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

██
████
██████
████
██
WEBSITE
▬◎▬◎▬◎▬◎▬
TWITTER

██
████
██████
████
██
FACEBOOK
▬◎▬◎▬◎▬◎▬
INSTAGRAM

██
████
██████
████
██
LINKEDIN
▬◎▬◎▬◎▬◎▬
MEDIUM

██
████
██████
████
██
OROBTC
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1568
Merit: 1001



View Profile
May 01, 2014, 07:19:42 PM
 #4

...

Money typically has three major and well-accepted attributes (and examples):

1)  Unit of Account (how much a business is worth, and "keeping score")

2)  Medium of Exchange (that loaf of bread costs you $3.00, the movie ticket $10.00)

3)  Store of Value (gold is store of value, and will that dollar still be worth a (real) dollar -- or close -- in 5 years?)

Bitcoin at this point works only well for number 2.  The price volatility excludes numbers 1 and 3.  There is a real case to be made to buy Bitcoin as an investment/speculation (as I have), but I would classify Bitcoin as a special case of a commodity.

So, I would not call it money.

***

You could even make an argument that our US $ is not "money", perhaps better thought of as a "currency" as the US dollar is not a good store of value over the longer term (inflation).  That is another topic...

...
bitsmichel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 250



View Profile
May 02, 2014, 11:16:49 PM
 #5

Quote
Now to the question. I have to base the empirical research on a hypothesis, and obviously there is no absolute value of the liquidity and velocity in which a "asset" to be considerate as money.

Thesis defense tips
Then they may ask several things during your thesis defense such as:
  • The original author of bitcoin says it is an electronic cash system, so was your research really necessary?
  • You claimed it is not money, but at the same time  I have read papers who claim it is money (or opposite). Are these people wrong?
  • Is Bitcoin not a Ponzi scheme?
  • Why did you not talk about any other currencies, such as Litecoin?

Paper tips
As a general tip, there are a few pages very important in your paper. These include the conclusion page, the introduction and research question - because the professors will not likely read your entire paper line by line. Usually, professors are under a tough schedule to publish, prepare classes, get funding etc.



After all, they probably have 5000 student papers to read. You want your sources cited everywhere. Try to avoid introducing topics by terms, but start with the story that explains the term, this is more easy to read. Example:

(good example)
Quote
S.N [3] has proposed a system for electronic transactions without relying on trust called Bitcoin

(bad example)
Quote
Bitcoin [3], a system for electronic transactions without relying on trust

The first reads easier, but thats just my opinion  Smiley You want your references to be in order, perhaps from newest to oldest. You want some recent publications in your list, perhaps from 2013 or 2012. Otherwise they could say your data is old. Given that Bitcoin is not so old, it may not be a problem; But keep in mind there has been research into crypto-currency before bitcoin, but there was still a problem to be solved. Finally you may want to use TeXmaker, its a headache to use it, but it generate a very professional looking paper. http://www.xm1math.net/texmaker/

Another tip is to put a sound recorder on, read out look your introduction page. Then play it back. How does it sound? Its exciting or boring? You want this page is interesting, because it is one of the few pages the professor will actually read in detail. This also helps against language mistakes that you normally would over-read.

Hope this was useful.  Smiley

spearshake23
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 9
Merit: 0


View Profile
May 04, 2014, 01:22:41 PM
 #6

yes, bitcoin=money, anonym money, great money, nice money Wink
bitsmichel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 250



View Profile
May 04, 2014, 05:04:46 PM
 #7

juice, you may want to see the MIT Bitcoin Expo 2014. video link + summary is on bitprize.org. Maybe its helpful for your thesis;

bitcoin4eva
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 327
Merit: 250


View Profile
May 04, 2014, 07:26:00 PM
 #8

I think it is money. It has real value, big stores are accepting it and you can exchange it (just like "real" currencies).
socal
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 500


View Profile
May 04, 2014, 09:27:37 PM
 #9

I agree with philipma1957, at this moment in time Bitcoin would best be described as a hybrid between "money" (there are tons of goods and services bought and sold in BTC out there, just like any Fiat) but it can be and is used as a vehicle to store value (much like gold, silver, etc) Since it contains both of these attributes I believe it deserves a classification all its own, but thats just my opinion. As far as your paper goes it is all subjective if YOU want it to be "money" then there is plenty to make a compelling argument for it but if not then there is just as much to support that it is less of a "money" and more of an "investment tool" but it all falls back to the simple question of do YOU think it's a "money" OP?
LAMarcellus
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 180
Merit: 100


View Profile
May 04, 2014, 09:47:40 PM
Last edit: May 05, 2014, 04:02:35 PM by LAMarcellus
 #10

According to the Austrian School, money is "the most sought after good". Whatever the good is, in this case Bitcoin, it is "most sought after" because every actor in the market knows that this good, can be passed off to the next guy if needed for exchange of goods, and the next guy will accept it at the same value.   In order for this exchange to occur, it helps for the most sought after good to possess certain characteristics.
It will be fungible, divisible, scare, portable, and have a high value to weight ratio. We don't use chicken eggs, panes of glass, gasoline, and sand as money, hopefully for obvious reasons when we consider the 5 characteristics of good monies.

Legal tender laws often force us to accept a certain item as money even though in a free market we would choose another good as money. The Federal Reserve bank note being an example, it can be created at will which means it is not scarce. Something that can be counterfeited makes for a horrible currency, whatever other "benefits" it may bring.

Bitcoin has the characteristics of good money. Arguably it is better than gold as money because of its portability, divisibility, and ease of transfer. However bitcoin does not have widespread recognition or adoption. It is used as money, but it's use is widespread.
This does not reduce bitcoins money-ness any more than the fact that Pesos are still money even though they aren't used by 99% of the world.

Paul Krugman and his ilk will suggest that using inflatable toilet paper notes as money is a good thing. That money can only be money if it is backed by government and forced onto individuals.

This is wrong. Money will arise any time exchange takes place between humans.
Left to its own operations, meaning without the guns of government interfering, the free market will eventually agree on a form of money.
Money allows humans to escape from barter trade because of the phenomenon called the "coincidence of wants". Money is necessary to the division of labor, therefore money is also necessary for the advancement of economies beyond barter.

If what I wrote doesn't make sense then I suggest you check out the book store and library at mises.org
They have many free e-books.
So does FEE.org
http://www.fee.org/library/

The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion. – Albert Camus
Gyfts
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000


View Profile
May 04, 2014, 09:53:21 PM
 #11

I would say Bitcoin isn't an actual form on money, more like virtual property that is traded in place of money.
Arghhh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


View Profile
May 05, 2014, 07:53:49 AM
 #12

I would say Bitcoin isn't an actual form on money, more like virtual property that is traded in place of money.
How is it not an actual form of money?

Quote from: Wikipedia
"Money is any object or verifiable record that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a particular country or socio-economic context."
Bitcoin can be accepted as payment for goods and services, and repayment of debts in many countries and socio-economic context. Bitcoin is money.
Cyrus
Ninja
Administrator
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2296
Merit: 1122



View Profile
May 05, 2014, 12:43:31 PM
 #13

Here is a good read, that might help a bit: Is Bitcoin real money? [Article for newbies].

Welcome to the forum and good luck on you bachelor's thesis.

aigareth
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 143
Merit: 100


View Profile
May 06, 2014, 06:15:38 AM
 #14

as long as people can exchange it with something else, I think BTC=money.

sana8410
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 250



View Profile
May 06, 2014, 03:34:48 PM
 #15

as long as people can exchange it with something else, I think BTC=money.

you may think is money but just like of the ops stated, they are not treating it like that, now bitcoin is considered as a product or did I miss something?

RENT MY SIG FOR A DAY
twiifm
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 500



View Profile
May 07, 2014, 04:10:11 AM
 #16

...

Money typically has three major and well-accepted attributes (and examples):

1)  Unit of Account (how much a business is worth, and "keeping score")

2)  Medium of Exchange (that loaf of bread costs you $3.00, the movie ticket $10.00)

3)  Store of Value (gold is store of value, and will that dollar still be worth a (real) dollar -- or close -- in 5 years?)

Bitcoin at this point works only well for number 2.  The price volatility excludes numbers 1 and 3.  There is a real case to be made to buy Bitcoin as an investment/speculation (as I have), but I would classify Bitcoin as a special case of a commodity.

So, I would not call it money.

***

You could even make an argument that our US $ is not "money", perhaps better thought of as a "currency" as the US dollar is not a good store of value over the longer term (inflation).  That is another topic...

...

Even for 2 it is limited because its not legal tender.  Its more like a barter than money
Bit_Happy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1974
Merit: 1019


A Great Time to Start Something!


View Profile
May 07, 2014, 05:36:05 AM
 #17

Bitcoin is redefining money. You can lead the intellectual revolution... ...just make something up that sounds good, if the media picks up on it you will be virtually immortal:
The juice101 Theory of Modern Digital Money.  Smiley


Swordsoffreedom
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000


★YoBit.Net★ 1400+ Coins Exchange


View Profile
May 07, 2014, 05:59:21 AM
 #18

Sometimes I wish that was true remembers a few papers where line by line it is underlined with suggestions to improve grammar
ETC proving that they read it lol

Bit_Happy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1974
Merit: 1019


A Great Time to Start Something!


View Profile
May 07, 2014, 06:17:18 AM
 #19

as long as people can exchange it with something else, I think BTC=money.

you may think is money but just like of the ops stated, they are not treating it like that, now bitcoin is considered as a product or did I miss something?

Bitcoin is money:
....did I miss something?
You missed the part where we don't let the Gov't create our reality for us.  Tongue   

BitOnyx
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112
Merit: 10

Cryptocurrencies Exchange


View Profile WWW
May 07, 2014, 11:23:06 AM
 #20

I don't think with current common knowledge you can easily describe bitcoin in one sentence.

Also it is nice that some people put more work into this area Wink

Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!