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Author Topic: Overstock.com CEO interested in NXT asset exchange!  (Read 6489 times)
Macseem
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May 05, 2014, 07:09:17 AM
 #101


Go buy 5% of nxt (will cost you 1 million dollars -- if prices don't go up while you are buying that many nxt) then come back here showing the "attack". If you succeed, the prices will drop and you will lose your 1 million dollar investment. That's the problem with these "what if" scenarios. They are not practical.  People who have that much  at stake have an incentive to protect the network without any shenagginings. It's in their own best interest to protect the network.  That's why it's called proof of stake. 


One cannot attack Nxt that way even if he is unreasonable and do not care about the money.


Perfect crime. Spend several billion dollars, buy 90% of all coins and try to destory the currency. Maybe in ThePurplePlanet's Universe it sounds normal. Or maybe he should just take care of his mental health a little better.
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May 05, 2014, 07:26:22 AM
 #102

Perfect crime. Spend several billion dollars, buy 90% of all coins and try to destory the currency. Maybe in ThePurplePlanet's Universe it sounds normal. Or maybe he should just take care of his mental health a little better.

it is possible with 90%+ (I mean after the transparent forging is fully implemented), it is impossible with 5%.
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May 05, 2014, 07:33:54 AM
 #103


Perfect crime. Spend several billion dollars, buy 90% of all coins and try to destory the currency. Maybe in ThePurplePlanet's Universe it sounds normal. Or maybe he should just take care of his mental health a little better.

I lolled hard with your post, but i lolled because it is so true.
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May 05, 2014, 07:35:32 AM
 #104

Kind of a misleading title.  You ran an ambush to try and advertise NXT to someone that doesn't know what it is.

Real topic should be, "Patrick Byrnes has no idea what the hell NXT is"

The title is so misleading it almost does more harm than good:
"NXT promoters desperate for attention! and willing to deceive!!"  Cheesy

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May 05, 2014, 07:38:12 AM
 #105

Perfect crime. Spend several billion dollars, buy 90% of all coins and try to destory the currency. Maybe in ThePurplePlanet's Universe it sounds normal. Or maybe he should just take care of his mental health a little better.

I also doubt whether one can buy up to 90%+ (or something close to 90%) even with plenty of money. There will be people who will not sell all of their stake no matter how much the bid is. Just think about that the difference between $0.1 billion and $10 billion is meaningless for most people, they just cannot spend so much.
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May 05, 2014, 07:49:46 AM
 #106


Go buy 5% of nxt (will cost you 1 million dollars -- if prices don't go up while you are buying that many nxt) then come back here showing the "attack". If you succeed, the prices will drop and you will lose your 1 million dollar investment. That's the problem with these "what if" scenarios. They are not practical.  People who have that much  at stake have an incentive to protect the network without any shenagginings. It's in their own best interest to protect the network.  That's why it's called proof of stake.  


One cannot attack Nxt that way even if he is unreasonable and do not care about the money.


Perfect crime. Spend several billion dollars, buy 90% of all coins and try to destory the currency. Maybe in ThePurplePlanet's Universe it sounds normal. Or maybe he should just take care of his mental health a little better.

ThePurplePlanet made the argument that you can perform a 51% attack with less than 51% of the stake, which seems to be true to me, as long as transparent forging is not yet implemented.

But the same goes for bitcoin, you can perform a 51% attack with only 5% of all hashing power IN THEORY, but you would have to get extremely lucky, thus it's not a practical attack.

Let's say ThePurplePlanet buys 5% of Nxt (price will skyrocket and this will cost him millions of dollars). Now he wants to doublespend on vircurex or bter or dgex. Bter and vircurex require 20 confirmations, and withdrawals on dgex are even checked manually after a longer period.

His chances of forging 20 blocks in a row are 0.05^20 or something like 0.00000000000000000000000095%, or am I mistaken? He'd have to wait a looooooong time till he succeeds.
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May 05, 2014, 07:59:49 AM
 #107

ThePurplePlanet made the argument that you can perform a 51% attack with less than 51% of the stake, which seems to be true to me, as long as transparent forging is not yet implemented.

But the same goes for bitcoin, you can perform a 51% attack with only 5% of all hashing power IN THEORY, but you would have to get extremely lucky, thus it's not a practical attack.

Let's say ThePurplePlanet buys 5% of Nxt (price will skyrocket and this will cost him millions of dollars). Now he wants to doublespend on vircurex or bter or dgex. Bter and vircurex require 20 confirmations, and withdrawals on dgex are even checked manually after a longer period.

His chances of forging 20 blocks in a row are 0.05^20, or am I mistaken? He'd have to wait a looooooong time till he succeeds.

If you think it is theoretically possible, please describe how, step by step precisely, be as specific as possible, don't use ambiguous or general text.
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May 05, 2014, 08:15:10 AM
 #108

ThePurplePlanet made the argument that you can perform a 51% attack with less than 51% of the stake, which seems to be true to me, as long as transparent forging is not yet implemented.

But the same goes for bitcoin, you can perform a 51% attack with only 5% of all hashing power IN THEORY, but you would have to get extremely lucky, thus it's not a practical attack.

Let's say ThePurplePlanet buys 5% of Nxt (price will skyrocket and this will cost him millions of dollars). Now he wants to doublespend on vircurex or bter or dgex. Bter and vircurex require 20 confirmations, and withdrawals on dgex are even checked manually after a longer period.

His chances of forging 20 blocks in a row are 0.05^20, or am I mistaken? He'd have to wait a looooooong time till he succeeds.

If you think it is theoretically possible, please describe how, step by step precisely, be as specific as possible, don't use ambiguous or general text.
dude I'm on your side, I think it's not feasible. I used numbers, not general text.

Goal: forge 22 (20 is not enough i think, because first confirmation in Nxt counts as zero) blocks in a row and cheat vircurex. The attacker withholds his chain and spends Nxt on the main chain (not forged by him) AND on his own chain. After 20 confirmations, his transaction is confirmed on the main chain. He now reveals his secret chain, which is longer than the main chain. Thus, the main chain get's orphaned, and his secret chain is now the main chain. He spent the Nxt on 2 chains, both with 20 confirmations, both accepted on vircurex.

His chances of forging 1 block with 5% of stake is 0.05. His chance of forging 22 blocks in a row is 0.05^22. This is so low that he and his great-great-grandchildern will die before succeeding.

EDIT: Let's end the off topic soon.
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May 05, 2014, 08:17:13 AM
 #109

But the same goes for bitcoin, you can perform a 51% attack with only 5% of all hashing power IN THEORY, but you would have to get extremely lucky, thus it's not a practical attack.

With the same probability I could get so extremely lucky that Satoshi would send me his million coins.

UPD: Just in case, my address is 1HyvPpAnmLpg5zLnR9k5dUDQfzi8ENWAdi  Smiley

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May 05, 2014, 08:17:38 AM
 #110

But the same goes for bitcoin, you can perform a 51% attack with only 5% of all hashing power IN THEORY, but you would have to get extremely lucky, thus it's not a practical attack.

With the same probabilitis I could get so extremely lucky that Satoshi would send me his million coins.

excatly  Grin or that I will be able to fly today
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May 05, 2014, 08:35:51 AM
 #111

Goal: forge 22 (20 is not enough i think, because first confirmation in Nxt counts as zero) blocks in a row and cheat vircurex. The attacker withholds his chain and spends Nxt on the main chain (not forged by him) AND on his own chain. After 20 confirmations, his transaction is confirmed on the main chain. He now reveals his secret chain, which is longer than the main chain. Thus, the main chain get's orphaned, and his secret chain is now the main chain. He spent the Nxt on 2 chains, both with 20 confirmations, both accepted on vircurex.

His chances of forging 1 block with 5% of stake is 0.05. His chance of forging 22 blocks in a row is 0.05^22. This is so low that he and his great-great-grandchildern will die before succeeding.

EDIT: Let's end the off topic soon.

First, forge 20 blocks with 5% stake, the chance is 0.05^20, which will need 1/0.05^20 / 60 / 24 / 365.25 = 1.99*10^20 years, the age of the universe is 1.37*10^10 years, so that's 1.45*10^10 times of the age of the universe. I don't know how the universe is like when he finally forge 20 blocks in a row. But since we are talking the theoretical possibility, so let's just go on.

I don't know how you deduce that his secret chain will be longer than the main chain, you need explain this. and even he somehow get the main chain orphaned, the transaction is still there if it has not expired (exchanges can require the deadline is long enough) and will be confirmed again.

So, I don't see how he can double spend even theoretically.
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May 05, 2014, 08:52:27 AM
 #112

First, forge 20 blocks with 5% stake, the chance is 0.05^20, which will need 1/0.05^20 / 60 / 24 / 365.25 = 1.99*10^20 years, the age of the universe is 1.37*10^10 years, so that's 1.45*10^10 times of the age of the universe. I don't know how the universe is like when he finally forge 20 blocks in a row. But since we are talking the theoretical possibility, so let's just go on.

absolutely right!

I don't know how you deduce that his secret chain will be longer than the main chain, you need explain this. and even he somehow get the main chain orphaned, the transaction is still there if it has not expired (exchanges can require the deadline is long enough) and will be confirmed again.

So, I don't see how he can double spend even theoretically.

The time between blocks is probabilistic, right? It just averages on 800 blocks a day. So there's a chance that the main chain is sometimes growing slower than the chain of the attacker?

It's just a guess. Can you enlighten me?

Thinking about it, isn't there already a mechanism in place that prevents one from forging too fast on a fork? Thought I heard something about it in the past.

As said, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I think Nxt is perfectly fine and secure.
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May 05, 2014, 09:13:29 AM
 #113

The time between blocks is probabilistic, right? It just averages on 800 blocks a day. So there's a chance that the main chain is sometimes growing slower than the chain of the attacker?

It's just a guess. Can you enlighten me?

Thinking about it, isn't there already a mechanism in place that prevents one from forging too fast on a fork? Thought I heard something about it in the past.
I don't know the details how Nxt works currently, but when the transparent forging is fully implemented, the time between two blocks will be exactly 60s, so the secret chain cannot be longer than the main chain, and the main chain and the secret chain can also be differentiated easily by seeing how many stakes involved in forging. I also recall CfB once said about the TF that the attacker who skips his turn of forging on the main chain to forge a secret chain will be recorded on the blockchain and penalized, others will see that and refuse to accept his secret chain.
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May 05, 2014, 09:19:25 AM
 #114

I don't know the details how Nxt works currently, but when the transparent forging is fully implemented, the time between two blocks will be exactly 60s, so the secret chain will not be longer than the main chain, and the main chain and the secret chain can also be differentiated easily by seeing how many stakes involved in forging. I also recall CfB once said about the TF that the attacker who skips his turn to forge on the main chain to forge a secret chain will be recorded on the blockchain, others will see that and refuse to accept his secret chain.

Agreed, with transparent forging it will be impossible to cheat. I think the devs will probably favor the approach that punishes an evil forger if he doesn't reveal a block after 60 seconds. As penalty, his forging power will be reduced to zero for a certain amount of time. Plus everybody will know the IP of the attacker.
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May 06, 2014, 12:35:45 PM
 #115

" Bad elements" is rather hard to tell exactly what it is. At point when you can't say exactly what it is maybe someone is just paranoid. But bad elements are the transactions and regulation in wrong places while still keeping open holes in law for all kind of acctions that are just wrong.

NXT always were looking interesting but it is hard to see right now its important impact.

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May 14, 2014, 01:35:59 AM
 #116

Did anyone contacted the CEO after AE has been succesfully lauched? Since it's working now he could actually see how great it is.

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May 14, 2014, 06:24:23 AM
 #117

Did anyone contacted the CEO after AE has been succesfully lauched? Since it's working now he could actually see how great it is.

Ask uniqueorn at nxt forum. He is managing this stuff.
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May 14, 2014, 08:39:16 AM
 #118

Did anyone contacted the CEO after AE has been succesfully lauched? Since it's working now he could actually see how great it is.

Ask uniqueorn at nxt forum. He is managing this stuff.

Thanks!

That's what I've found: "I've been in direct talks with them for days now, all I ask is that people stop speculating. The spreading of this has gone pretty far (articles popping up, our competitors discussing it etc.). We do not want to drive them away. I have already supplied them with all of the info and have continuous updates with them. I will let the community know once there is anything official."

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/price-speculation/msg18103/#msg18103

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May 16, 2014, 10:38:32 AM
 #119

"Byrne ends keynote with big news: "I'm exploring [listing Overstock] on a block chain kind of stock exchange."

https://twitter.com/coindesk/status/467233469857533952


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June 13, 2014, 07:27:23 PM
 #120

Overstock will never in a million years use nxt.
They no nxt is a pos scam coin
1000 million nxt scam coin reasons why it will never happen.

nxt retards trying to pump then dump again n again
i speak up n called troll ............ crooks in motion

Time will say it! Meanwhile Nxt is in third place and maybe jumping into second by the end of 2014. Let's give the time to make it clear.
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