Bitstamp TX Fee Exploit - Fee 1.16% instead of 0.2% [Bitstamp Fixes on May 15th]

[smooth]

I still do not agree with this partial fix of Bitstamp. If I place one order I want to be charged for just one order, regardless if it is bought into by three different orders. I decided to place one order so should be charged for just one. Bitstamp is just a scammer exchange with a bad reputation.

They are still going to charge much higher than the posted fees in some cases. The minimum is $5, that's great. But what about $5.01? The fee should be $0.01002 but instead you will be charged $0.02. Okay the breakage seems capped at double now, but that's still a lot.

[davout]

They are still going to charge much higher than the posted fees in some cases. The minimum is $5, that's great. But what about $5.01? The fee should be $0.01002 but instead you will be charged $0.02. Okay the breakage seems capped at double now, but that's still a lot.

Their base fee is .5%.
If you place a $5 order you should be charged $0.025, but instead you will be charged $0.03.

In other words, even with their "fix", you'd get charged 20% more than advertised.

I see folks cheering because their answer to the situation was fast...
It's as if the people here would be happy to be served a plate of steaming shit in a restaurant, instead of actual food, as long as the waiter's fast.

[smooth]

They are still going to charge much higher than the posted fees in some cases. The minimum is $5, that's great. But what about $5.01? The fee should be $0.01002 but instead you will be charged $0.02. Okay the breakage seems capped at double now, but that's still a lot.

Their base fee is .5%.
If you place a $5 order you should be charged $0.025, but instead you will be charged $0.03.

In other words, even with their "fix", you'd get charged 20% more than advertised.

I see folks cheering because their answer to the situation was fast...
It's as if the people here would be happy to be served a plate of steaming shit in a restaurant, instead of actual food, as long as the waiter's fast.

Except that the subject of the thread says 0.2% which leads to the (almost) double fee on a $5.01 trade

[mmitech]

They are still going to charge much higher than the posted fees in some cases. The minimum is $5, that's great. But what about $5.01? The fee should be $0.01002 but instead you will be charged $0.02. Okay the breakage seems capped at double now, but that's still a lot.

Their base fee is .5%.
If you place a $5 order you should be charged $0.025, but instead you will be charged $0.03.

In other words, even with their "fix", you'd get charged 20% more than advertised.

I see folks cheering because their answer to the situation was fast...
It's as if the people here would be happy to be served a plate of steaming shit in a restaurant, instead of actual food, as long as the waiter's fast.

so lets close our accounts in Bitstamp and start using your shitty exchange right ? because you've got it all figured out....

[dreamspark]

They are still going to charge much higher than the posted fees in some cases. The minimum is $5, that's great. But what about $5.01? The fee should be $0.01002 but instead you will be charged $0.02. Okay the breakage seems capped at double now, but that's still a lot.

Their base fee is .5%.
If you place a $5 order you should be charged $0.025, but instead you will be charged $0.03.

In other words, even with their "fix", you'd get charged 20% more than advertised.

I see folks cheering because their answer to the situation was fast...
It's as if the people here would be happy to be served a plate of steaming shit in a restaurant, instead of actual food, as long as the waiter's fast.

so lets close our accounts in Bitstamp and start using your shitty exchange right ? because you've got it all figured out....

It doesn't matter whether he has an exchange thats worse or better he's demonstrating that there is still an issue. Rather than attacking him why don't you raise some valid counter points?

[N12]

They are still going to charge much higher than the posted fees in some cases. The minimum is $5, that's great. But what about $5.01? The fee should be $0.01002 but instead you will be charged $0.02. Okay the breakage seems capped at double now, but that's still a lot.

Their base fee is .5%.
If you place a $5 order you should be charged $0.025, but instead you will be charged $0.03.

In other words, even with their "fix", you'd get charged 20% more than advertised.

I see folks cheering because their answer to the situation was fast...
It's as if the people here would be happy to be served a plate of steaming shit in a restaurant, instead of actual food, as long as the waiter's fast.

so lets close our accounts in Bitstamp and start using your shitty exchange right ? because you've got it all figured out....

It doesn't matter whether he has an exchange thats worse or better he's demonstrating that there is still an issue. Rather than attacking him why don't you raise some valid counter points?

Agree.

It is good to see that Bitstamp has done some improvement to reduce it though. Hopefully they will increase precision eventually.

[Boxman90]

For now I am happy with the fix as it solves the exploit I mentioned in the OP, however, better rounding precision would be preferred as it is still possible to pay double.

Effectively and through proper planning it is now only possible to have people with 0.2% trading fee pay 0.4% if an order is completely bought by a streak of $5.01 orders.
This is a direct result of their trading fee policy which is mentioned in their ToS. I still do think this needs to be fixed, but we need a lot more community effort to get this done as this is mentioned in their ToS and we agreed to that by trading there.

The main issue I wanted to raise here is that their minimum order limit was not in agreement with their own minimum trading fee. This allowed for a disproportionate rounding error at the customer's expense, and was a (hopefully unintended) exploit to their fee rounding policy. I am happy to see that this particular exploit will be fixed and that their minimum order size has now been attuned to the lower end of their minimum trading fee.

- The exploit was illegitimate and bordering on illegal, which is why it was imperative that it had to be fixed.
- The trading fee rounding is mentioned in their ToS.

This is the main difference I want to stress.

I do however believe that a fair trading fee rounding would be much preferred

[mmitech]

They are still going to charge much higher than the posted fees in some cases. The minimum is $5, that's great. But what about $5.01? The fee should be $0.01002 but instead you will be charged $0.02. Okay the breakage seems capped at double now, but that's still a lot.

Their base fee is .5%.
If you place a $5 order you should be charged $0.025, but instead you will be charged $0.03.

In other words, even with their "fix", you'd get charged 20% more than advertised.

I see folks cheering because their answer to the situation was fast...
It's as if the people here would be happy to be served a plate of steaming shit in a restaurant, instead of actual food, as long as the waiter's fast.

so lets close our accounts in Bitstamp and start using your shitty exchange right ? because you've got it all figured out....

It doesn't matter whether he has an exchange thats worse or better he's demonstrating that there is still an issue. Rather than attacking him why don't you raise some valid counter points?

because it is really retarded, this simply imply that he has no fucking clue about what he is talking nor know how to solve a simple math issue, because the same thing happens everyday in your daily life and almost every where, when you go to the gas station they round up the price and I don't see anyone complaining and crying there, and when you go to the grocery store to buy a kilogram of potato the same happens because it is simply never an exact kilogram, yet I don't see people crying there as well.

and by the way, when you trade a fucking $200.01 and pay $0.01 more as fee, of course a $0.01 will change your life right ? and if you do that 100 time a month this would sum up to $1 in total, this will get you broke!!! but of course it is not about the $0.01 it is about how can we live with the fact that there is a successful and efficient business like Bitstamp, No we have to fuck them hard to have peace (fucking jealousy)...

[oda.krell]

They are still going to charge much higher than the posted fees in some cases. The minimum is $5, that's great. But what about $5.01? The fee should be $0.01002 but instead you will be charged $0.02. Okay the breakage seems capped at double now, but that's still a lot.

Their base fee is .5%.
If you place a $5 order you should be charged $0.025, but instead you will be charged $0.03.

In other words, even with their "fix", you'd get charged 20% more than advertised.

I see folks cheering because their answer to the situation was fast...
It's as if the people here would be happy to be served a plate of steaming shit in a restaurant, instead of actual food, as long as the waiter's fast.

so lets close our accounts in Bitstamp and start using your shitty exchange right ? because you've got it all figured out....

It doesn't matter whether he has an exchange thats worse or better he's demonstrating that there is still an issue. Rather than attacking him why don't you raise some valid counter points?

Agree.

It is good to see that Bitstamp has done some improvement to reduce it though. Hopefully they will increase precision eventually.

Only partially agreed. Not all 'ad hominem' arguments are fallacies.

If a Visa exec writes about the dangers of Bitcoin, we'd at least suspect him to be biased. If the owner of a competing exchange vocally slams Bitstamp, it at least invites additional scrutiny.


I'll revisit this topic iff an actual user reports another large enough divergence between advertised and actually paid fees, say 2.2 instead of 2%, and more than just a dollar. Until then, I consider this a decent fix.

[btcusury]

because it is really retarded, this simply imply that he has no fucking clue about what he is talking nor know how to solve a simple math issue, because the same thing happens everyday in your daily life and almost every where, when you go to the gas station they round up the price and I don't see anyone complaining and crying there, and when you go to the grocery store to buy a kilogram of potato the same happens because it is simply never an exact kilogram, yet I don't see people crying there as well.

and by the way, when you trade a fucking $200.01 and pay $0.01 more as fee, of course a $0.01 will change your life right ? and if you do that 100 time a month this would sum up to $1 in total, this will get you broke!!! but of course it is not about the $0.01 it is about how can we live with the fact that there is a successful and efficient business like Bitstamp, No we have to fuck them hard to have peace (fucking jealousy)...

Clearly the one with "no fucking clue about what he is talking [about]" is you. Your comparison is invalid. Read the OP to find out why. Davout is accused of being a scammer by others on this forum, so I'm not here to defend him, but on this issue he's right.

The $5 fix is better than nothing, but not the most honest fix. It suggests that the original problem was a deliberate method by Bitstamp to increase fee revenue.

[davout]

so lets close our accounts in Bitstamp and start using your shitty exchange right ?

No, you get to keep your bitcents there.
Your dysfunctional brain would be much better served by a dysfunctional engine, neither of them displays the simple ability to add and multiply numbers correctly.

[mmitech]

because it is really retarded, this simply imply that he has no fucking clue about what he is talking nor know how to solve a simple math issue, because the same thing happens everyday in your daily life and almost every where, when you go to the gas station they round up the price and I don't see anyone complaining and crying there, and when you go to the grocery store to buy a kilogram of potato the same happens because it is simply never an exact kilogram, yet I don't see people crying there as well.

and by the way, when you trade a fucking $200.01 and pay $0.01 more as fee, of course a $0.01 will change your life right ? and if you do that 100 time a month this would sum up to $1 in total, this will get you broke!!! but of course it is not about the $0.01 it is about how can we live with the fact that there is a successful and efficient business like Bitstamp, No we have to fuck them hard to have peace (fucking jealousy)...

Clearly the one with "no fucking clue about what he is talking [about]" is you. Your comparison is invalid. Read the OP to find out why. Davout is accused of being a scammer by others on this forum, so I'm not here to defend him, but on this issue he's right.

The $5 fix is better than nothing, but not the most honest fix. It suggests that the original problem was a deliberate method by Bitstamp to increase fee revenue.

ok Mr.smart ass, explain to me how is this different, explain it like I am 5 years old.

so lets close our accounts in Bitstamp and start using your shitty exchange right ?

No, you get to keep your bitcents there.
Your dysfunctional brain would be much better served by a dysfunctional engine, neither of them displays the simple ability to add and multiply numbers correctly.

so your brain and logic is the functional one ? amazing...

[davout]

explain it like I am 5 years old.

If it was actually explained like you were five years old it might already get too technical for you.
See, the prerequisite to explaining stuff in such a way, is that the person you explain stuff to is assumed to have mental capabilities that are equal, or exceed, those of an actual five years old.

so your brain and logic is the functional one ? amazing...

Start with additions, when you're confident about them, move on to multiplications, you'll see, it's easy, a multiplication is just a repeated addition after all.

[mmitech]

explain it like I am 5 years old.

If it was actually explained like you were five years old it might already get too technical for you.
See, the prerequisite to explaining stuff in such a way, is that the person you explain stuff to is assumed to have mental capabilities that are equal, or exceed, those of an actual five years old.

so your brain and logic is the functional one ? amazing...

Start with additions, when you're confident about them, move on to multiplications, you'll see, it's easy, a multiplication is just a repeated addition after all.

congrats, you just lost me here, and welcome to my ignore list.....another fact, bitstamp still makes millions when you are crying as a baby here, this didnt change for sure, see my limited retarded brain still understand that 

[DeathAndTaxes]

So is BitStamp going to refund the excess fees they mischarged customers?

[gizmoh]

Still waiting for the Fix ! Bots having fun meanwhile 

Time             Price         Volume      USD           
21:00:17   452.58000   0.0022   1.0100
21:00:17   452.59000   0.0022   1.0100
21:00:17   452.60000   0.0022   1.0100
21:00:16   452.61000   0.2972   134.5055
21:00:07   452.61000   0.0022   0.9981
21:00:05   452.61000   0.0022   0.9981
21:00:05   452.61000   0.0022   0.9981
21:00:00   453.47000   0.0022   1.0100
21:00:00   453.48000   0.0022   1.0100
20:59:51   453.49000   0.0022   1.0100
20:59:35   453.50000   0.0022   1.0000
20:59:32   453.50000   0.0022   1.0000
20:59:31   453.50000   0.0022   0.9999
20:59:28   451.51000   0.5533   249.8211
20:59:23   453.50000   0.5060   229.4500
20:59:22   453.50000   0.0022   0.9999
20:59:18   451.51000   0.4508   203.5385
20:59:16   451.76000   0.2570   116.1023
20:59:13   453.51000   0.0022   1.0100
20:59:13   453.52000   0.0022   1.0100
20:59:12   453.53000   0.0022   1.0000
20:59:07   453.53000   0.0022   1.0000

[F-bernanke]

and by the way, when you trade a fucking $200.01 and pay $0.01 more as fee, of course a $0.01 will change your life right ? and if you do that 100 time a month this would sum up to $1 in total, this will get you broke!!! but of course it is not about the $0.01 it is about how can we live with the fact that there is a successful and efficient business like Bitstamp, No we have to fuck them hard to have peace (fucking jealousy)...

I never had a gas station round UP on me... Damn right i would complain, it's just not fair.

Adding more decimals is the only fair solution for both parties.

[smooth]

So is BitStamp going to refund the excess fees they mischarged customers?

Mischarged is going to far. It was according to their posted (but dumb) policy.

They can certainly refund if they want to do that as a customer relations move, but I don't see any mischarging here.

[davout]

Adding more decimals is the only fair solution for both parties.

Either this, or round fairly, because on average it would even out.

Mischarged is going to far. It was according to their posted (but dumb) policy.

+1, it's not like it wasn't clearly laid out.

[smooth]

Adding more decimals is the only fair solution for both parties.

Either this, or round fairly, because on average it would even out.

I think this could likely be gamed unless rounding were done randomly (and then it is difficult to audit) and it would not average out.