Monero Economy

[s1gs3gv]

Thanks smooth, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Just trying to confirm my conjecture that in general crypto-coin prices trend towards their cost of production. XMR seems to be no exception.

[smooth]

Thanks smooth, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Just trying to confirm my conjecture that in general crypto-coin prices trend towards their cost of production. XMR seems to be no exception.

I think it is more correct to say that the price and cost of production tend to converge.

[s1gs3gv]

Thanks smooth, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Just trying to confirm my conjecture that in general crypto-coin prices trend towards their cost of production. XMR seems to be no exception.

I think it is more correct to say that the price and cost of production tend to converge.

Well I'd love to have that discussion with you in depth but i'm sure here and now isn't the right place

However, I would be interested in a response (at your leisure) to my recent question regarding drivers of success.

[vaporware asset wizard]

I would say that the most promising initiative to make XMR stand out from the masses of shitcoins, is Crypto Kingdom. We are just now transitioning to a browser-playable game, which is also a social media platform and an interactive wallet-cum-app store.

I finally get the interest in this Crypto Kingdom game, thanks!! I'm not into games, and for that reason was skipping over crypto kingdom thread, BUT, the crypto community has well and truly outgrown this forum as the best means of communicating (everyone retreating into Slack chat bunkers seems to be the latest trend), and I now see that this CK game has ambitions to become a social media platform, wallet & app store.

Jolly good work I say!!! I'm following now

What social media features are planned?

[rpietila]

What social media features are planned?

The social media platform for BTC is Bitcointalk. Other coins have their own forums. With Monero and CK, we aim to have a more comprehensive communication platform in the game, at least the following features would stand out relative to forum:

- Integrated online and offline payment tools to actually have an economy based on the coin
- Social hierarchy with people who have much coin and want to be prominent, can more easily lead the community and others can join them
- The above two combined makes it easy to organize and fund projects related to the coin, or anything else
- Game context allows a lot of financial tools to make investing and speculation more varied and more liquid (XMR/CKG coinshop, interest-paying bonds, exchanges, gambling, ingame investments)
- As MMORPG, the game itself is interactive and increases cohesion between players by "forcing" interaction
- The "trollbox" is a chat channel similar to an IRC channel but in the game they are bound to locations, such as restaurants. The people with similar interests find each other easily - the same time the system is open for random encounters, just like real life, unlike regular IRC
- User-generated content may be plugged in, for example you can set up a shop and start selling your music, ebooks, physical Monero coins, or basically anything, and get paid instantly
- Push notifications may be able to be bought, making it possible to reach a large number of users with paid advertising (cf. spam - the frequency and content will be previewed)
- People may opt in to bulletins, giving them the latest news on topics of interest (cf. subscribing to newspapers/letters)
- It's full of guilds etc which foster communication.

Realizing all planned features and new ones will take time.

[rpietila]

For example, there are not many ways of depositing cryptocurrencies against interest. Any such scheme is most likely very high yield, and therefore a ponzi, or a low yield high-counterparty-risk such as lending in an exchange.

Crypto Kingdom has functioning capital markets and it is possible to buy bonds that pay interest. Or borrow money against collateral or guarantees.

Right now we have a bond auction going on, and at present we have not enabled withdrawals yet so it may be tricky to withdraw your money. Once withdrawals are enabled, it will become a true market.

[vaporware asset wizard]

What social media features are planned?

The social media platform for BTC is Bitcointalk. Other coins have their own forums. With Monero and CK, we aim to have a more comprehensive communication platform in the game, at least the following features would stand out relative to forum:

- Integrated online and offline payment tools to actually have an economy based on the coin
- Social hierarchy with people who have much coin and want to be prominent, can more easily lead the community and others can join them
- The above two combined makes it easy to organize and fund projects related to the coin, or anything else
- Game context allows a lot of financial tools to make investing and speculation more varied and more liquid (XMR/CKG coinshop, interest-paying bonds, exchanges, gambling, ingame investments)
- As MMORPG, the game itself is interactive and increases cohesion between players by "forcing" interaction
- The "trollbox" is a chat channel similar to an IRC channel but in the game they are bound to locations, such as restaurants. The people with similar interests find each other easily - the same time the system is open for random encounters, just like real life, unlike regular IRC
- User-generated content may be plugged in, for example you can set up a shop and start selling your music, ebooks, physical Monero coins, or basically anything, and get paid instantly
- Push notifications may be able to be bought, making it possible to reach a large number of users with paid advertising (cf. spam - the frequency and content will be previewed)
- People may opt in to bulletins, giving them the latest news on topics of interest (cf. subscribing to newspapers/letters)
- It's full of guilds etc which foster communication.

Realizing all planned features and new ones will take time.

I'm very impressed! I think for marketing purposes you could consider rebranding as "crypto kingdom virtual world" and drop references to 'game' for some target markets. You can always target the catch words as needed to suit any particular community, but I know the word 'game' was putting me off from investigating further, and I can see I was very wrong with that judgement, and many others might be too. You're building a very unique crypto communication platform with unlimited potential, but some wont see that. Maybe that's good to give early adopters in this space time to stake their claim before the hordes arrive.

The recent poloniex ban on New Yorkers might be a good catalyst to help people appreciate this game is NOT a 'game' at all, but serious business

[XMRpromotions]

https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/630644116343230464

Does your business accept @monerocurrency for products and services yet? Attract new customers, enhance privacy and reduce transaction costs

[rpietila]

I'm very impressed!

So are the others:

[TPTB_need_war]

I'm very impressed!

So are the others:

Can you add a third dimension for market cap so we can see how relevant this is?

Everyone knows a homeless guy selling water on a hot day can double his networth in an hour. But is that may not be relevant to every observer of that homeless man. I bet some rabbit just increased his family size by a exponential factor while I was writing this.

Seeds grow rapidly to saplings, and saplings grow less quickly to Oak trees. But Oak trees don't grow to the moon.

I think you are onto something with relevant and large implications by distributing the coins to the users of the coin. But is this the framework within which to be relevant to the world?

[rpietila]

The less fucks I give to the critics, the more fun I have, and everybody else around me. Let the others save the world with their preferred method, I am just happy! 

[TPTB_need_war]

The less fucks I give to the critics, the more fun I have, and everybody else around me. Let the others save the world with their preferred method, I am just happy!  

Okay. I take the problems in the world today very seriously to heart. I personally couldn't be off playing while Rome burns.

I think possibly you've identified an important economic paradigm, which is distributing the coins to the users of the coin.

I just thought maybe you were serious about turning that finding into a world changing endeavor.

I am serious about trying to do that.

I want to work with serious people. (Especially those who are not too busy working on their game development to order a $75 Rasberry Pi 2 and set up some basic computer security for communicating with developers who wish for their communications with angel investors to remain anonymous.)

When I used to know you before you got rich and you were a hungry silver dealer, you were very serious.

Apologies if I am putting my current condition on you. Indeed I am sick, hungry for achievement, and even desperate. You are rich, have a new baby, and probably just want to savor life some. I wonder if that will happen to me if I get rich? I think so. When I was rich before (18,000 oz of silver in 2008), I managed to lose it all. Seems to be a pattern that happens to the newly rich.

Btw, I wasn't criticizing your achievement with the game in terms of what a game could achieve. It appears to be a noteworthy accomplishment in the context of what a game can achieve in cryptoland. I am lamenting priorities.

And who knows. Maybe everybody will be playing games and that will be a huge economic paradigm. (somehow I doubt it)

My gosh Risto, I am not trying to fuck with you. Nor give you any major criticism. I am just dismayed that we can't even communicate securely. I've been waiting for over a year for you to establish some elementary computer security.

[binaryFate]

The less fucks I give to the critics, the more fun I have, and everybody else around me. Let the others save the world with their preferred method, I am just happy!  

Okay. I take the problems in the world today very seriously to heart. I personally couldn't be off playing while Rome burns.

I think possibly you've identified an important economic paradigm, which is distributing the coins to the users of the coin.

I just thought maybe you were serious about turning that finding into a world changing endeavor.

I am serious about trying to do that.

I want to work with serious people. (Especially those who are not too busy working on their game development to order a $75 Rasberry Pi 2 and set up some basic computer security for communicating with developers who wish for their communications with angel investors to remain anonymous.)

When I used to know you before you got rich and you were a hungry silver dealer, you were very serious.

Apologies if I am putting my current condition on you. Indeed I am sick, hungry for achievement, and even desperate. You are rich, have a new baby, and probably just want to savor life some. I wonder if that will happen to me if I get rich? I think so. When I was rich before (18,000 oz of silver in 2008), I managed to lose it all. Seems to be a pattern that happens to the newly rich.

Btw, I wasn't criticizing your achievement with the game in terms of what a game could achieve. It appears to be a noteworthy accomplishment in the context of what a game can achieve in cryptoland. I am lamenting priorities.

And who knows. Maybe everybody will be playing games and that will be a huge economic paradigm. (somehow I doubt it)

My gosh Risto, I am not trying to fuck with you. Nor give you any major criticism. I am just dismayed that we can't even communicate securely. I've been waiting for over a year for you to establish some elementary computer security.

I'm not at ease reading that because you seem to confuse PM and public posts.
Anyway for the public part, what did you do for the good of the world in the last year that would make a practical example of what an idealist with capabilities can target and  achieve?

[TPTB_need_war]

I'm not at ease reading that because you seem to confuse PM and public posts.

There are only so many times you can ask a friend in private to please establish computer security because there is something important you would like to discuss with him anonymously. Even going so far as to explaining things in Skype with a voiceprint that is incriminating, and hoping that would be enough to motivate. Apparently not. So I must just accept it.

The basic issue is that Risto doesn't believe in anonymous development. He believes in being a martyr and making all your resistance to Satan public and let him put you in jail or what ever. For him, society must either stand up en masse or else we are martyred. What he doesn't seem to appreciate is that his culpability as an investor is nearly nothing compared to the culpability of the lead developer. It is an asymmetrical risk factor that he is callous about.

P.S. I am also not at ease posting that. Someone who has been helpful to you, and you don't want to go against him in any way. I am accustomed to working with very efficient people, where you say one word and it gets done. I am not accustomed to having to lose so much time. I have been nearly always a supporter of Risto. The areas where I have disagreed with him are a) telling newbies to HODL during a secular market decline, b) trying to create a forum (which failed) where reputation and moderated threads would be rule, i.e. censorship, and c) not respecting the anonymity needs of at least one developer. It his choice of course. I guess I am just shooting myself in the foot, because I can't lie to myself.

Anyway for the public part, what did you do for the good of the world in the last year that would make a practical example of what an idealist with capabilities can target and  achieve?

Nothing (public).

I understand the implication. Who the hell am I? Prima donna right.


Edit: I suppose I am going to have to accept that Risto and I have a fundamentally different philosophy about organization. As best as I can ascertain his views, it appears to me he fundamentally believes in top-down control and moralistic organization, i.e. that there is a right and wrong and the leaders have an obligation to publicly display and enforce right from wrong. Whereas, I fundamentally believe in the Second Law of Thermodynamics and the trend of entropy to maximum, i.e. I'd prefer to be part of Adam's Smith's Invisible Hand force of nature. That you can't "see" what I am doing is a feature, not necessarily a fault. Stroking my ego is irrelevant.

[TPTB_need_war]

Hey apologies for being a drama queen, but in all honesty I am having trouble with my vision again today and I might be going blind. And I am struggling so much to work when I shouldn't be. I guess in that light, games seem like games to me. And causing me to do anything more than say "do it" seems to be wasteful and disrespectful. Is that egoist? Yes I guess so, and if Risto instituted the necessary security and received a copy of a white paper, the I think his jaw would drop to the floor and he could spank himself. Enuf' said. I am not going to mention it again. Apologies again for venting.

Edit: those who think this is a game are in for a rude awakening:

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/06/building_retro_.html

Note the NewScientist article has been scrubbed from the internet. Can't even find it on archive.org.

I've been noticing this phenomenon of scrubbing the internet is becoming more common. For example all of Michael Pettis's old blogs (which were hacked in 2013 and 2014) have also since disappeared from archive.org in 2015.

TPTB are stepping up and preparing...

[saddambitcoin]

CKG market cap currently is 811,530 XMR. (calculated by the current midprice of 0.81 XMR * 1,000,000 CKG total existing)

I know there was around ~20,000 CKG volume in the last week alone, if that is significant. Over 100 XMR users such as myself are enjoying it and more gaining by the day.

In the near future, I plan to have market cap stats available along with volume at the first website in my signature.

CK also supports privacy, PGP is available for users that wish to communicate that way (nobody has done so yet but it is there - ask me for my public key).

[TPTB_need_war]

CKG market cap currently is 811,530 XMR. (calculated by the current midprice of 0.81 XMR * 1,000,000 CKG total existing)

A half $million. Impressive for a game. As I said, I am not criticizing it for the market it targets. I am talking about relative priorities. I hope my friend can make the distinction. Also I stated that it might be demonstrating a model of distributing coins to the users which could be employed in markets that much more diverse and larger than just games. Okay I will really shut up now. Thanks.

[XMRpromotions]

Monero Ĵaŭdo (Esperanto: “Monero Thursday”) @thewaterproject @esperanto @speakesperanto
https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/632018494134071296

retweet quickly (and/or donate) is you can since it is already Friday in much of the world. Next week I will tweet earlier

charity idea thanks to https://www.reddit.com/user/Scryptography
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3gv7b8/monero_%C4%B5a%C5%ADdo_81315/

[CryptoConan]

impressiveshizzly indeed....

[Futureblnr]

Guys, wanna change my xmr to eth...what platform would you suggest? I was advised to try https://bestrate.org/   , cause it will pick the best rate among the most popular exchanges platorms..but I've never heard about..Has anyone tried?