Using real estate speculation to drive up bitcoin.

[xinterp]

Just looking for a few people to gun down this concept 

Picture a platform where any freelancer can find & list lucrative real estate deals happening at the early stage of the curve and where anyone with bitcoin can invest in.

He then pitches the deal on the platform and anyone in the world can invest anywhere between 100$ to 250$ worth of bitcoin.

Money would basically be coming internationally into a local real estate deal setup by the freelancer. He buys the property, sets it up and then puts it for sale right away. 

From there each offer could be either voted on by the investors or simply decided by the freelancer.

Once the property flips the freelancer keeps his cut in cash and buys bitcoins with the profit.

The end result would be a net increase in bitcoin purchases.

Every real estate market is speculative in nature and there are plenty of places on earth where you can be pretty sure you'll make a profit flipping real estate.

The lucrative markets can be spotted pretty quickly by the community.
 
Obviously there's the issue of trusting the freelancer. Freelancers could have ranks & reviews. Worst that can happen though is you lost 100-250$.

There are also many legal issues in certain countries along with real potential harm to local real estate markets if it were too successful but I guess a limit could be set.

The platform could survive by taking a very small cut off each successful transactions. 

Thoughts?

[mercistheman]

As a home inspector, any real estate transaction can be extremely risky (especially site unseen)... the general concept is good... just have to add certain levels protection.

[xinterp]

Good point!

The best scenario would be to one or multiple home inspectors on board with the deal then?

[jonald_fyookball]

Just looking for a few people to gun down this concept 

Picture a platform where any freelancer can find & list lucrative real estate deals happening at the early stage of the curve and where anyone with bitcoin can invest in.

He then pitches the deal on the platform and anyone in the world can invest anywhere between 100$ to 250$ worth of bitcoin.

Money would basically be coming internationally into a local real estate deal setup by the freelancer. He buys the property, sets it up and then puts it for sale right away. 

From there each offer could be either voted on by the investors or simply decided by the freelancer.

Once the property flips the freelancer keeps his cut in cash and buys bitcoins with the profit.

The end result would be a net increase in bitcoin purchases.

Every real estate market is speculative in nature and there are plenty of places on earth where you can be pretty sure you'll make a profit flipping real estate.

The lucrative markets can be spotted pretty quickly by the community.
 
Obviously there's the issue of trusting the freelancer. Freelancers could have ranks & reviews. Worst that can happen though is you lost 100-250$.

There are also many legal issues in certain countries along with real potential harm to local real estate markets if it were too successful but I guess a limit could be set.

The platform could survive by taking a very small cut off each successful transactions. 

Thoughts?

There are existing companies that offer shares in real estate ventures.   
You're really not adding anything new here by saying people could
buy bitcoins with the profits.

People can already choose to buy bitcoins with profits
they made with real estate or any other source of income.

[franky1]

converting bitcoin into FIAT to gamble on a FIAT real estate deal.....

i smell a nigerian prince.

you do realise that after handing over your bitcoin. it will sit there for weeks-months until the target total is met. and then waiting months again for the supposed project to actually break ground and be built. and then some time again for the sale of the finalized project. so lets give this timescale..... a year.

now your $100 works out as X share. and after all building costs are covered and legal costs on the sale, the profit is under 50%

so the project promises you $150

well what was 0.25BTC in 2014 ($100 at $400/btc) is only 0.05BTC in 2015 ($150 at $3k/btc)

as that is what people will think bitcoin will be next year. so now you have been without $100 and now only have $150... where you could have avoided this nigerian prince idea. and kept your 0.25btc and have $750 if/when bitcoin goes to $3000

even if bitcoin just goes to $800 next year.. you will have $200 by just hoarding bitcoin and not a nigerian princes promise of $150.

the reason nigerian princes do not try going after whales, but instead people that invest only $100-$250. is because they know that individually it is not worth a plane ticket to see the project for your own eyes, as that costs more then your investment. its not worth the court fee's when they sting you, as again too costly vs the $250 max investment. so these little fish investors will just live with their losses and the nigerian prince will walk off withe hundreds of peoples investments (totaling many thousands) knowing no one will pay to meet him. thus a risk free scam.

so in short your financially better off just holding your bitcoin

[RockHound]

Was looking into how Bitcoin could help the real estate market last year. With the aim of providing cheaper homes for the average Joe. Think this could be a huge market for bitcoin to enter but not entirely sure why?     Thanks OP for posting

Problems we came across were:

Conveyance
Property Law
Mortgages and buyer/seller chains
Turnaround time to fully close property

Beyond my scope for now, so didn't invest further time/capital. The best we came up with, would have been just becoming basically an advertising platform - like http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale.html/svr/3117 or https://www.bitpremier.com/items/category/5/real-estate which I personally feel lack innovation.

However, if someone could offer a service which handled legal conveyance, removal of estate agent/brokerage commission, verified deed transference, land registry and most importantly a great deal for the Buyer and Seller, then that someone would become multimillionaire very quickly.

[franky1]

However, if someone could offer a service which handled legal conveyance, removal of estate agent/brokerage commission, verified deed transference, land registry and most importantly a great deal for the Buyer and Seller, then that someone would become multimillionaire very quickly.

i hope you mean if someone found a real estate agent that would accept bitcoin for all of the above. then the real estate agent would be rich..

i hate all of these noob idea's where its just a money grab and that middleman has no actual function in the 'idea' bar holding peoples funds with a promise.

its much better to get actual legit businesses onboard to pay direct. rather then 'project leaders'. the reason..
too many scammers with bitcoin islands, bitcoin towns, bitcoin seastead idea's..

we dont need unskilled 'project managers' coming up with idea's that they do not have experience in or have any contacts for it to even work.

so lets not concentrate on finding a stranger to manage a project. but instead go out and find an actual legit business to do the work they have been doing for years.... but for bitcoin

[Swordsoffreedom]

Did you look at rentalstarter its similar to this idea
Person looks for a house then gives out dividends from the revenue generated

[RockHound]

However, if someone could offer a service which handled legal conveyance, removal of estate agent/brokerage commission, verified deed transference, land registry and most importantly a great deal for the Buyer and Seller, then that someone would become multimillionaire very quickly.

i hope you mean if someone found a real estate agent that would accept bitcoin for all of the above. then the real estate agent would be rich..

i hate all of these noob idea's where its just a money grab and that middleman has no actual function in the 'idea' bar holding peoples funds with a promise.

its much better to get actual legit businesses onboard to pay direct. rather then 'project leaders'. the reason..
too many scammers with bitcoin islands, bitcoin towns, bitcoin seastead idea's..

we dont need unskilled 'project managers' coming up with idea's that they do not have experience in or have any contacts for it to even work.

so lets not concentrate on finding a stranger to manage a project. but instead go out and find an actual legit business to do the work they have been doing for years.... but for bitcoin

Yo Frank, didn't mean to offend - Money grab not my contention mate.

I meant, I envisage the Founder to become very successful, because the company provides a valuable service. What I'm thinking is not just another real estate agency or brokerage firm. House prices are crazy these days, and don't think it's fair for people to be tied down to 20-30 year mortgage. Don't know how this would work, but if there was a way Bitcoin could assist in providing cheaper housing, I'd be all for that!

Have no bias doing business with a stranger. As long as the business model is sound and outsourced or employed experienced/qualified/accredited professionals.

 

[xinterp]

Beyond my scope for now, so didn't invest further time/capital. The best we come up with, would have been just becoming basically an advertising platform - like http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale.html/svr/3117 or https://www.bitpremier.com/items/category/5/real-estate which I personally feel lack innovation.

However, if someone could offer a service which handled legal conveyance, removal of estate agent/brokerage commission, verified deed transference, land registry and most importantly a great deal for the Buyer and Seller, then that someone would become multimillionaire very quickly.

I hear you,

There's 2 mid sized construction companies in my family so I run a small property portal dedicated to finding new home builders & listings in my area.

I've read about property portals and I am constantly playing with ideas to disrupt it. It's cheesy right now, the biggest players in that field are mostly owned by media conglomerates and it's hard for a startup to beat that because at the end of the day they can put their brand in a dozen newspapers/radios/tvs for dirt cheap (they own it..)

As for offering a service handling deeds, land registry, legals AND getting rid of the agent's commission - Good luck with that.. I think it would be a huge legal mess in most states/provinces.

Furthermore the real estate services market is a tax cash cow for most govs. They can't tax a capital gain on your own property, but they can sure tax that real estate agent you hired to sell it.

Now that I'm thinking about it, wouldn't the solution to save on the "middle man" in real estate be the same as getting rid of the bank in Bitcoins case?

Using the same technology to create a decentralised network where anyone can advertise their home for sale. Isn't that what Bitcoin does?

[xinterp]

converting bitcoin into FIAT to gamble on a FIAT real estate deal.....

i smell a nigerian prince.

you do realise that after handing over your bitcoin. it will sit there for weeks-months until the target total is met. and then waiting months again for the supposed project to actually break ground and be built. and then some time again for the sale of the finalized project. so lets give this timescale..... a year.

now your $100 works out as X share. and after all building costs are covered and legal costs on the sale, the profit is under 50%

so the project promises you $150

well what was 0.25BTC in 2014 ($100 at $400/btc) is only 0.05BTC in 2015 ($150 at $3k/btc)

as that is what people will think bitcoin will be next year. so now you have been without $100 and now only have $150... where you could have avoided this nigerian prince idea. and kept your 0.25btc and have $750 if/when bitcoin goes to $3000

even if bitcoin just goes to $800 next year.. you will have $200 by just hoarding bitcoin and not a nigerian princes promise of $150.

the reason nigerian princes do not try going after whales, but instead people that invest only $100-$250. is because they know that individually it is not worth a plane ticket to see the project for your own eyes, as that costs more then your investment. its not worth the court fee's when they sting you, as again too costly vs the $250 max investment. so these little fish investors will just live with their losses and the nigerian prince will walk off withe hundreds of peoples investments (totaling many thousands) knowing no one will pay to meet him. thus a risk free scam.

so in short your financially better off just holding your bitcoin

Have you seen the sick speculation going on in metropolitan areas through syndicated mortgages?

I've a last year where an investor bought 12 condos for 160 and flipped them within less than a year in the 240-260 range. Oh and he didn't even legally own the condos, he simply placed down payments on them.
So basically he's put around 150k in down and turned it into 1mil+ in less than a year.

The condo developers "hype" the price through different sales phases (Investors Only -> VIP -> Public) - That way the initial investors who financed the project get huge returns and want more.

Often enough the sales flatten at some point and then the builder buys their own condos at cost, rents them off and then move on to the next major project.

Why not pooling bitcoins from all across the world to get on thoses deals and have average joe benefit from it while we get our cut and reinvest the whole thing in bitcoin.

[keithers]

When flipping properties, you have to keep in mind the capital gains taxes that the buyer/seller would face. Also the best properties to flip using need a lot of work, and are not "turn key" condition when initially purchased.

[franky1]

Have you seen the sick speculation going on in metropolitan areas through syndicated mortgages?

I've a last year where an investor bought 12 condos for 160 and flipped them within less than a year in the 240-260 range. Oh and he didn't even legally own the condos, he simply placed down payments on them.
So basically he's put around 150k in down and turned it into 1mil+ in less than a year.

The condo developers "hype" the price through different sales phases (Investors Only -> VIP -> Public) - That way the initial investors who financed the project get huge returns and want more.

Often enough the sales flatten at some point and then the builder buys their own condos at cost, rents them off and then move on to the next major project.

Why not pooling bitcoins from all across the world to get on thoses deals and have average joe benefit from it while we get our cut and reinvest the whole thing in bitcoin.

well everyone here in bitcoin land has had oppertunities to turn $70 into $1000 inside a year. just by holding onto coin..
so those with 1000 coins turned $70k into $1mill

 i think your better off asking for fiat investment from fiat investors.

i truly laugh at people showing off large investments, but targeting their 'tricks' at small fish.. im a whale and i see you sharks coming from a mile away, i have no problem getting in the way of you feeding off the defenseless guppy's.

investing in real estate is so 20th century. one day when you look passed your own greed and read about bitcoin beyond your little scam plans, you will see you can actually make alot of money without needing to scam people.

oh and by the way. when you talk about an investor of yours making millions. then smart people automatically think you made millions too, and thus you dont need other people this time round. you can self fund and keep all proceeds. which makes you look more flawed trying to aim your stories at small fish..

in the future real estate agents will accept bitcoin. oh wait, some already do.. either way now or then we dont need middle men that people will never meet trying to 'manage' their investment..

'flipping' real estate makes housing too costly to live in.. which has caused the excessively higher mortgages. so if on that 1% chance your were genuine, your not helping people get affordable houses.

now lets dig deeper into your own admissions (if at all believed) your family are a construction company. well you would actually do alot more for the community if you asked your family to accept bitcoin, and then get real estate agents to accept bitcoin so that every day joe bloggs can buy houses without having to set up 'special arrangement' with an unknown entity. but instead have legit contracts with legit companies, thus growing the ecosystem for those that have enough bitcoin to buy an affordable house. they can get one built themselves. independently and know that some lowlife middle man wont be taking a cut.

so to summerise, your scam failed. and even if genuine your investment failed. so please, learn what bitcoin is all about (hint: self management) and there is no need to reply or rebuttle your case. lick your wounds and go away

[xinterp]

Have you seen the sick speculation going on in metropolitan areas through syndicated mortgages?

I've a last year where an investor bought 12 condos for 160 and flipped them within less than a year in the 240-260 range. Oh and he didn't even legally own the condos, he simply placed down payments on them.
So basically he's put around 150k in down and turned it into 1mil+ in less than a year.

The condo developers "hype" the price through different sales phases (Investors Only -> VIP -> Public) - That way the initial investors who financed the project get huge returns and want more.

Often enough the sales flatten at some point and then the builder buys their own condos at cost, rents them off and then move on to the next major project.

Why not pooling bitcoins from all across the world to get on thoses deals and have average joe benefit from it while we get our cut and reinvest the whole thing in bitcoin.

well everyone here in bitcoin land has had oppertunities to turn $70 into $1000 inside a year. just by holding onto coin..
so those with 1000 coins turned $70k into $1mill

 i think your better off asking for fiat investment from fiat investors.

i truly laugh at people showing off large investments, but targeting their 'tricks' at small fish.. im a whale and i see you sharks coming from a mile away, i have no problem getting in the way of you feeding off the defenseless guppy's.

investing in real estate is so 20th century. one day when you look passed your own greed and read about bitcoin beyond your little scam plans, you will see you can actually make alot of money without needing to scam people.

oh and by the way. when you talk about an investor of yours making millions. then smart people automatically think you made millions too, and thus you dont need other people this time round. you can self fund and keep all proceeds. which makes you look more flawed trying to aim your stories at small fish..

in the future real estate agents will accept bitcoin. oh wait, some already do.. either way now or then we dont need middle men that people will never meet trying to 'manage' their investment..

'flipping' real estate makes housing too costly to live in.. which has caused the excessively higher mortgages. so if on that 1% chance your were genuine, your not helping people get affordable houses.

now lets dig deeper into your own admissions (if at all believed) your family are a construction company. well you would actually do alot more for the community if you asked your family to accept bitcoin, and then get real estate agents to accept bitcoin so that every day joe bloggs can buy houses without having to set up 'special arrangement' with an unknown entity. but instead have legit contracts with legit companies, thus growing the ecosystem for those that have enough bitcoin to buy an affordable house. they can get one built themselves. independently and know that some lowlife middle man wont be taking a cut.

so to summerise, your scam failed. and even if genuine your investment failed. so please, learn what bitcoin is all about (hint: self management) and there is no need to reply or rebuttle your case. lick your wounds and go away

I'm not looking to scam anyone Franky,

I could care less that this makes money or not, just toying with ideas.

When I say I've been thinking about it for a while it's exactly because I see people adding huge ammounts of "real estate related" services to their mortgages.

In the near future theses services will probably be replaced by algorithms, why not start to figure out a good system right now?

Also, the initial idea was simply to use RE speculation to boost bitcoin overall though, not really to make money.

And I completely agree that most speculations hurt the local people trying to purchase.