FUCK THIS

[StewartJ]

so... Zhou sold a gigantic stash of BTC on MtGox... in huge lumps. It was leveraged at 120,000 ASK-BTC, vs. 28,000 BID-BTC, for a couple hours.  Then I would see 128k, jump to 60k, and think "phew", and then in the next 30-sec reload it'd be back over 100k again, so someone or some program was literally just shovelling on another 30k, and cackling demonically, right?  Would it even make sense for Z to do this?  Financially?  Or are there old miners left hoarding their 400,000 BTC stashes?  Or was it a coordinated panic?  What d'you guys think?

How will we ever know for sure? The one thing that is certain is that people are getting hurt and this makes bitcoin look bad (again).

This is part of the deal, doesn't matter whether its stocks, gold, or BTC... part of the game.

This crash shows how precarious all markets are to manipulation. Doesn't make BTC look bad in particular.

[cloon]

so... Zhou sold a gigantic stash of BTC on MtGox... in huge lumps. It was leveraged at 120,000 ASK-BTC, vs. 28,000 BID-BTC, for a couple hours.  Then I would see 128k, jump to 60k, and think "phew", and then in the next 30-sec reload it'd be back over 100k again, so someone or some program was literally just shovelling on another 30k, and cackling demonically, right?  Would it even make sense for Z to do this?  Financially?  Or are there old miners left hoarding their 400,000 BTC stashes?  Or was it a coordinated panic?  What d'you guys think?

I think a lot of people bought a lot of bitcoins far cheaper than low price of this dump. I personally would not sell in that fashion, I would let the price bounce off my tiny asks for weeks on end. Apparently this person did not care to make the most of it, or there is a way to make more money by dumping large amounts of Bitcoins at once.

the only thing I did was making profit^^

and this was only possible, because other people were loosing this money i gained... (2digits ind BTC) -  thats how it works, doesn't it?

[Cluster2k]

I did mention having so many people sure the only way is up and leveraged on Bitcoinica was dangerous.  But I didn't think we'd see such crazy action.

[Hunterbunter]

I guess we would quickly return to 6+, but with healthier situation now that the leveraged kamikazes are all cleared out.

Indeed. I see this as a much needed learning process. This will teach people to be more careful.

Only the current batch...more will follow

I learnt my lesson some time in the past about the evils of leverage, even against all warnings and sense.

[Vandroiy]

the only thing I did was making profit^^

and this was only possible, because other people were loosing this money i gained... (2digits ind BTC) -  thats how it works, doesn't it?

What, you triggered the flash crash? That'd be one awesome thing in one's personal record, having triggered a flash crash!

[tripper22]

so... Zhou sold a gigantic stash of BTC on MtGox... in huge lumps. It was leveraged at 120,000 ASK-BTC, vs. 28,000 BID-BTC, for a couple hours.  Then I would see 128k, jump to 60k, and think "phew", and then in the next 30-sec reload it'd be back over 100k again, so someone or some program was literally just shovelling on another 30k, and cackling demonically, right?  Would it even make sense for Z to do this?  Financially?  Or are there old miners left hoarding their 400,000 BTC stashes?  Or was it a coordinated panic?  What d'you guys think?

How will we ever know for sure? The one thing that is certain is that people are getting hurt and this makes bitcoin look bad (again).

And here we are back to the criticism I've been leveling since June 2011.

I think the fundamentals for bitcoin are great. The bitcoin market just doesn't have enough liquidity to keep the price somewhat stable.

But what can anyone expect from something so new and revolutionary? With great risk comes the potential for great reward. 

[SgtSpike]

Well, you can bet on me having some bids a dollar or two below the "averaging" price from here on out, solely due to this action we just saw!  I don't want to miss out on those kind of market movements again!

And if more people join in the same line of thinking as me, then we'll self-stabilize against these sorts of price swings in the future.

[sgbett]

This is no flash crash. The price is not recovering and the asks are filling in.

[Serge]

This is no flash crash. The price is not recovering and the asks are filling in.

i think mtgox will be backlogged with pending orders for a while. will see when it becomes responsive again.  i say we will be back in 6-7 range

[dryden]

Everyone is in denial...


Zhoutounged!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1

I have been Jonesed. Now I have been Zhoutonged.

[chsados]

Well, you can bet on me having some bids a dollar or two below the "averaging" price from here on out, solely due to this action we just saw!  I don't want to miss out on those kind of market movements again!

And if more people join in the same line of thinking as me, then we'll self-stabilize against these sorts of price swings in the future.

yea this is exactly what i did and screwed me!  but a low order at 6.1 when it was at 6.45ish thinking id be "lucky" to catch at that price...

[Vandroiy]

This is no flash crash. The price is not recovering and the asks are filling in.

Hm, does a flash crash have to recover? I dunno. It just has to go down real fast IMO, at least that's what I meant.

Of course, there was heavy friction in these leverage liquidations feeding bots, daytraders, Bitcoinica, and finally Bitcoinica's leverage money exiting again. Price should not be likely to recover fully, at least not all too quickly.

[barrymac]

This is no flash crash. The price is not recovering and the asks are filling in.

Hm, does a flash crash have to recover? I dunno. It just has to go down real fast IMO, at least that's what I meant.

Of course, there was heavy friction in these leverage liquidations feeding bots, daytraders, Bitcoinica, and finally Bitcoinica's leverage money exiting again. Price should not be likely to recover fully, at least not all too quickly.

Snap! Same here, had some "pessimistic" limit orders to buy big at about 6.5 but the crash was so deep that they made the situation far far worse and even they got forcibly liquidated. my balance went from thousands to minus thousands. The system wasn't even able to liquidate fast enough.

[Hunterbunter]

This is no flash crash. The price is not recovering and the asks are filling in.

Hm, does a flash crash have to recover? I dunno. It just has to go down real fast IMO, at least that's what I meant.

Of course, there was heavy friction in these leverage liquidations feeding bots, daytraders, Bitcoinica, and finally Bitcoinica's leverage money exiting again. Price should not be likely to recover fully, at least not all too quickly.

Snap! Same here, had some "pessimistic" limit orders to buy big at about 6.5 but the crash was so deep that they made the situation far far worse and even they got forcibly liquidated. my balance went from thousands to minus thousands. The system wasn't even able to liquidate fast enough.

Interestingly...what's to stop you or anyone else just walking away from the debt? All bitcoinica has is an email address, no?

or do I misunderstand it?

[barrymac]

Well yes, you could probably walk away from it. But compared to the amount that was positive the negative balance isn't that bad in the end.

I never was a gambling man. Hilarious really how I got so wound in by the long trend but got so amazingly zapped by the lure or margin trading. Deserved, learned, I'm trying to laugh I really am

[Mark Oates]

Hey, merchants!  Bitcoin is a great new reliable currency!    No need to worry about the feds artificially fluctuating the price! 

Try it today!

[bitcoinBull]

Interestingly...what's to stop you or anyone else just walking away from the debt? All bitcoinica has is an email address, no?

or do I misunderstand it?

You don't walk away from debt, you walk away from your deposit.

[barrymac]

Hey, merchants!  Bitcoin is a great new reliable currency!    No need to worry about the feds artificially fluctuating the price! 

Try it today!

I'd like to see an estimate of how much that would actually cost. I don't think it would be that much in the grand scheme of things.

[Hunterbunter]

Interestingly...what's to stop you or anyone else just walking away from the debt? All bitcoinica has is an email address, no?

or do I misunderstand it?

You don't walk away from debt, you walk away from your deposit.

ok, but if you're minus...thousands and been forced to liquidate, hasn't your deposit already gone?

[bitcoinBull]

Interestingly...what's to stop you or anyone else just walking away from the debt? All bitcoinica has is an email address, no?

or do I misunderstand it?

You don't walk away from debt, you walk away from your deposit.

ok, but if you're minus...thousands and been forced to liquidate, hasn't your deposit already gone?

Right.  When you reach minus (your deposit), you're force liquidated.