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bittenbob
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January 17, 2012, 11:43:42 PM
 #21

If there is no shorting then I expect another rally very shortly and we could even break the $8 barrier in a matter of minutes like we broke $5 on the way down. I have noticed the pattern when bitcoinica will not let people open a position in one direction, the market moves in the other. This is why I suspect Zhoutong may not be completely honest and why I don't know anyone would trade on margin there.
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January 17, 2012, 11:48:28 PM
 #22

I wouldn't make a bigger deal out of this than it has to be. If Bitcoinica is the problem, STOP USING IT. I don't use it and I never will. Advice new people coming into Bitcoin to not use it. Bitcoinica can't have a massive effect without suckers causing the effect!

This will be a learning process for everyone, we need to get more serious about Bitcoinica. It's not something to be played with, it's serious.

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January 17, 2012, 11:48:57 PM
 #23

So you are in large part to blame for the crash. 17k bitcoin leveraged 10:1 = 170k on the market = crash

Your a leech on the bitcoin economy and I hope you get liquidated.

Uh, he actually has $13k in "real money" in there, not 17k bitcoins. And wow, that's some strong language. Care to explain how it's leeching?


Look at the order its 17k BTC. Unless I am understanding it incorrectly bitcoinica only operates in BTC so that 17k is that. When you go to close your position the the profit or loss on the right is multiplied by your leverage. He is leeching because he is just doing this to make money (steal money from bitcoin users). I would disagree however if he took this money and reinvested as bitcoin but something tells me that this user is not that type of a person.

I have taught speculators a lesson to not trade with a big leverage, i've helped the real bitcoin economy to get rid of bloodsuckers.
If you don't understand it well, sorry dude. may be you are the one who took long side with a 1:10 leverage ? huh  : Cool

Actually I don't use bitcoinica because I dont believe in leverage.

You sure are one to talk about being leveraged since you yourself were at 10:1. I really hope you lose your 20K because that will teach you not to leverage yourself.
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January 17, 2012, 11:56:02 PM
 #24

Actually I don't use bitcoinica because I dont believe in leverage.

You sure are one to talk about being leveraged since you yourself were at 10:1. I really hope you lose your 20K because that will teach you not to leverage yourself.

wat.

Leverage is borrowing to make additional profit in either direction. Most rational individuals consider borrowing a reasonable activity if you can use the borrowed money to make more money than your borrowing costs. Companies borrow to build new infrastructure and thus to make themselves more profitable.

Leveraged trades on bitcoinica or any real trading platform carry massive risk of the market going the wrong way and causing forced liquidation. The guy took a big risk and made a big profit from it. The idea is just taking standard investment practice and magnifying it a bit, magnifying the risk along with it. If someone is risk-tolerant, they might do this. If they're risk-averse, they might not. I don't see how it makes sense to be against it on principle, and don't understand why you feel such animosity against people who aren't against it.
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January 17, 2012, 11:58:04 PM
 #25

So you are in large part to blame for the crash. 17k bitcoin leveraged 10:1 = 170k on the market = crash

Your a leech on the bitcoin economy and I hope you get liquidated.

Uh, he actually has $13k in "real money" in there, not 17k bitcoins. And wow, that's some strong language. Care to explain how it's leeching?


Look at the order its 17k BTC. Unless I am understanding it incorrectly bitcoinica only operates in BTC so that 17k is that. When you go to close your position the the profit or loss on the right is multiplied by your leverage. He is leeching because he is just doing this to make money (steal money from bitcoin users). I would disagree however if he took this money and reinvested as bitcoin but something tells me that this user is not that type of a person.

I have taught speculators a lesson to not trade with a big leverage, i've helped the real bitcoin economy to get rid of bloodsuckers.
If you don't understand it well, sorry dude. may be you are the one who took long side with a 1:10 leverage ? huh  : Cool

Actually I don't use bitcoinica because I dont believe in leverage.

You sure are one to talk about being leveraged since you yourself were at 10:1. I really hope you lose your 20K because that will teach you not to leverage yourself.

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January 17, 2012, 11:58:10 PM
 #26

So you are in large part to blame for the crash. 17k bitcoin leveraged 10:1 = 170k on the market = crash

Your a leech on the bitcoin economy and I hope you get liquidated.

Uh, he actually has $13k in "real money" in there, not 17k bitcoins. And wow, that's some strong language. Care to explain how it's leeching?

The most amazing thing is even I could have done this and plenty of other people easily could have too.  $13k isn't that much money to risk to profitably cause this kind of market trauma.  This guy did it, he made a lot of cash, and the entire bitcoin community and project is worse off for it.  Well done.
I couldn’t agree more with you, proudhon.

We have to remember that Bitcoinica only exists because people apparently have a demand for giving zhoutong all their money because they are trading a highly volatile asset with high leverage and killed by the spikes.

I cannot comprehend the stupidity people are displaying, and that’s after a ~95% decline in value over 6 months – might have thought people would learn some caution.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
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January 17, 2012, 11:59:20 PM
 #27

So you are in large part to blame for the crash. 17k bitcoin leveraged 10:1 = 170k on the market = crash

Your a leech on the bitcoin economy and I hope you get liquidated.

Yea your numbers are off there buddy.

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January 18, 2012, 12:02:15 AM
 #28

He is leeching because he is just doing this to make money (steal money from bitcoin users).

Bullshit. If you are betting on the market and lose, you gave your money away. Unless he forced the money out of your hands, he didn't steal shit. Bitcoin is not going to be stable for a long time, this has been said over, and over, and over again.

Yeah, especially when people who don't know how markets work insist on having opinions on them anyway.
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January 18, 2012, 12:03:15 AM
 #29

I think introducing leverage at this point in the life of bitcoin is/was a very bad idea.

+1.  I think the community managed to overcome the hacking and insecurity that plagued the project's infrastructure, I don't know how this hurdle can be overcome.
Hell, I’m almost enclined to believe this has to be a concerted effort by some entities who dislike Bitcoin. It’s incredible how there is always a huge problem leading to wide and severe trust issues with Bitcoin.

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copumpkin
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January 18, 2012, 12:07:36 AM
 #30

He is leeching because he is just doing this to make money (steal money from bitcoin users).

Bullshit. If you are betting on the market and lose, you gave your money away. Unless he forced the money out of your hands, he didn't steal shit. Bitcoin is not going to be stable for a long time, this has been said over, and over, and over again.

Yeah, especially when people who don't know how markets work insist on having opinions on them anyway.

Hell, I have opinions, and I'm no market expert, but I don't back them by betting on them! Especially leveraged betting. ROFL.

I'm not even talking about opinions on the direction the market is heading, because those are pretty hard to be sure about. I'm talking about basic mechanics of how trading on a margin works, for example (i.e., someone is lending you the coins you're trading on a margin; it happens on bitcoinica and it's been happening OTC for a lot longer than that).
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January 18, 2012, 12:20:32 AM
 #31

Man isn't the free market beautiful Cheesy

I see nothing wrong with Bitcoinica, no one who didn't gamble lost anything, it was all on a voluntary basis which is the most important part.

As far as price stability of Bitcoin, I again see nothing wrong with it fluctuating. It's precisely because Bitcoinca exist that people can easily hedge and avert any severe loses for a small price. All this whining is just kids betting and losing, booohooo.  Roll Eyes

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January 18, 2012, 12:30:00 AM
 #32

I wouldn't blame the people who made this happen, it's just as much if not more the fault of the people who lost their money going long leveraged at Bitcoinica because of the Good Wife episode. The sharks simply took advantage of this and profited. I hope people learn from this and understand that it doesn't require a fortune to do this in the Bitcoin market. This will always be possible in the future, be very careful when doing anything leveraged.

Bitcoinica is turning me back into a long-term bear.  The fact that this will always be possible with bitcoinica is a good reason not to trust bitcoin as a good medium of exchange or store of value.  Newcomers to bitcoin should understand this, and I think if they do, they probably won't jump in.

It's possible both ways, and will even out in the long term.

What brought us down also brought us up to $7.22...

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January 18, 2012, 12:57:42 AM
 #33

Hell, I’m almost enclined to believe this has to be a concerted effort by some entities who dislike Bitcoin. It’s incredible how there is always a huge problem leading to wide and severe trust issues with Bitcoin.

I'm interested in this theory.  Did you have the same opinion of the people making the trades that increased BTCUSD from under $3 to $7?  Are you opposed to people developing miners that are more efficient, use GPUs or FPGAs, or can consolidate their processing power into pools?  These all create more liquidity and volatility in the market, the same as leverage.

Did you think the run up from < $1 to > $10 was healthy?  (I will leave alone the one-time push to $30, unless you wish to include it.)

The whole of the BTC economy is less than the most "real world" currency.  Of course it's going to be volatile.

I'm not sure what to say regarding your conspiracy theories.  If I have a formula such as 1) dislike btc, 2) apply basic trading tools to exchange BTC and fiat, and 3a) Crush bitcoin or 3b) Profit!  Which branch do you find more likely?
I’m against leverage with Bitcoin because it is nonsensical to use margin on a highly volatile asset, though it will sort itself out because the gamblers will keep giving their money to zhoutong.

I think the spring/summer runup was justified to a certain point because the community did quickly expand at the time and the huge growth is still visible now. ~500-700% growth from April’s 1 USD is quite possible, yes.

What I meant to say is that it’s weird that Bitcoin is plagued non-stop with such fiascos, and in my opinion at the very least the MtGox incident wasn’t profit-oriented. We know that the attacker allocated himself all Bitcoins on MtGox via admin account, then sold them all off, creating the crash to $0.01. He couldn’t withdraw all his cash due to the limit. I don’t think a profit-seeking hacker would plan that badly. It’s also way easier, quicker and safer to withdraw the Bitcoins. IMO the perpetrator was more interested in creating charts like this one: http://blog.asymptotic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Bitcoin_crash_2011-06-19.png

Then followed a myriad of scams and hacks like MyBitcoin, several exchanges, allinvain etc. which undermined trust and further damaged Bitcoin’s reputation.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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January 18, 2012, 12:58:44 AM
 #34

You lose your money yet? That would just be grand!
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January 18, 2012, 01:02:16 AM
 #35

On bitcoinica we're all a pack of hyenas fighting each other over someone else's kill, I was one of those liquidated by the OP to the tune of 200$ (a decent amount for me) but whatever I guess that's the risk you take when you get greedy and overleverage yourself.  Remember these price swings only hurt the dumb hyenas (speculators), not the people using btc as a medium of exchange, which is the important part for bitcoins success.
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January 18, 2012, 01:06:00 AM
 #36

You lose your money yet? That would just be grand!

RTFM about exchanges and
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$7 at your leverage would liquidate you and then you have 0
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January 18, 2012, 01:11:37 AM
 #37

Price at $6.95 so the short is already in negative.  Can't close it for a profit, assuming the screenshot is even legit.

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January 18, 2012, 01:12:51 AM
 #38

i'd be surprised if he hadn't liquidated already.
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January 18, 2012, 01:15:43 AM
 #39

It would just be so awesome if he hadn't. With so much money bet against bitcoin I would like to see him lose it all.
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January 18, 2012, 01:19:19 AM
 #40

It would just be so awesome if he hadn't. With so much money bet against bitcoin I would like to see him lose it all.

yeah i was liquidated.

pip in pip. nice shot zhoutong. second time you manipulate the market, first time you gave me spread refund for your games.

he thinks he can get away from this crime


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