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Ente
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May 08, 2014, 07:30:43 AM
Last edit: August 07, 2014, 09:20:31 AM by Ente
 #1

What happened:
I held an auction for a "2011 Casascius 1st edition coin".
Justbtcme bid 5.0 BTC via PM, which was the winning bid.
He asked me to send the coin first. Refused any escrow, "I don't trust them". Didn't accept any of my various compromise offers, didn't make any reasonable offers himself. Then stopped giving any meaningful replies at all.
The original auction OP clearly said that an escrow is to be used in regular cases.

No funds were stolen, so I can't prove 100% that justbtcme is a scammer. On my opinion this does, however, warrant a public warning.
See edit.

Profile Link:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=148389

Reference Link:
Original auction:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579971
All correspondence via PM.

Amount in question:
Attempted sum: 5.0 BTC / "1 Casascius 2011 1st edition coin".

Payment Method:
BTC, after receiving the goods.

Proof of Payment:
----

PM/Chat Logs:
To be disclosed on request.

Additional Notes:
This is now resolved.


Edit on 2014-08-07:

After talking with justbtcme via PM and this thread, as well as reading what other business he is up to, I no longer believe he is -or tried to be- a scammer. He only backed out of some trades. Which is annoying, but not scamming. I am confident that he takes his business more serious now, and that this unnecessary drama will not repeat. Him doing quite a lot of successful trades is a good indicator for this as well.
I am leaving this thread alive for transparency reasons that this is resolved, not as an ongoing warning.
I am in friendly contact with justbtcme. I would sell to him again, would I have more coins to sell at this time.

Ente
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holomen
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May 08, 2014, 08:36:45 AM
 #2

Same with me.

Actions are similar to that type, but I never sent any coins to him without escrow/prepayment.

Take care and avoid risk.
notserp
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May 08, 2014, 09:01:18 AM
 #3

hmm maybe justbtcme was mgk

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=566998.msg6414035#msg6414035
Xelpherpolis
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May 08, 2014, 10:56:47 AM
 #4

Sounds like a scam to me!
boumalo
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May 08, 2014, 11:11:28 AM
 #5

Sounds like a scam to me!

Scam attempt, it is nice to see it wasn't successful

He has 8 positive trust ratings from untrusted members but 7 have a negative trust and one is a newbie

Ente
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May 08, 2014, 04:21:09 PM
 #6

So anyone can give negative trust, accuse people of alt accounts and create a scam accusation page just because he "feels" someone is a scammer?

Cool. I will keep this in mind. I do get bored sometimes at night.....

Are you honestly telling me you want to buy what you bid upon, and stick to the rules you agreed upon in the auction OP?
Feel free to explain what other motivation you have for your (constant, as it seems) behavior.

Ente
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May 08, 2014, 06:06:52 PM
 #7

lol u left me bad feed back why? it doesnt do shit lol and i never left u any feed back till now
Ente
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May 08, 2014, 09:07:24 PM
 #8

Gave you idiots some very deserve negative trust because I "feel", without evidence, that you ente holomen tomatocage and that other idiot are alt accounts of each other. This is just my feeling. I'll decide to create a scam accusation page later if I "feel" like its necessary.

Yay, my second reference! Thanks, justbtcme.

lol u left me bad feed back why? it doesnt do shit lol and i never left u any feed back till now

Gave you and notserp an explaining positive reference for this.

Ente
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May 09, 2014, 01:42:30 PM
 #9

Sounds pretty dodgy, But i dont blame him or anybody else for not trusting an Escrow.
Ente
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May 09, 2014, 02:23:43 PM
 #10

Sounds pretty dodgy, But i dont blame him or anybody else for not trusting an Escrow.


Yes, noone is forced to use/trust an escrow, as ridiculous this sounds to me.
But everyone who bids in an auction where an escrow is stated in the auction rules, is bound to this.
Else it's a breach of contract and a strong sign for a scamming attempt.

Ente
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August 01, 2014, 06:27:27 PM
 #11

Wow man, thanks a lot. I said many times I will escrow and here you are doing what you're doing.

That's not what Ente told me. While this isn't a clear cut case of a scam, you do appear to be backing out of an auction that you won. That to me is justification for negative trust, not to mention the fact that you and your alts have been suspect from last year.

You don't want to use escrow? Fine. Pay Ente for the auction you bid on and won, and he'll ship the coin out. If not, your rating will get a bit more colorful by tomorrow.

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Ente
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August 01, 2014, 06:31:47 PM
 #12

I was selling Casascius coin for him, he offered 3.6btc for it.
After we had agreed about using escrow he lowered offer to 3btc "because btc price went up".
15% discount because btc went 2.3% up, seems legit.
IMO, he tried to get it without escrow and after he ralized it isn't possible he lowerd price so he could call our deal off without looking scammer.

Is there a thread for this auction?
(Like, was it stated beforehand that escrow will be used?)
Did justbtcme (again) bid by private message?

Ente
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August 01, 2014, 06:51:13 PM
 #13

I was selling Casascius coin for him, he offered 3.6btc for it.
After we had agreed about using escrow he lowered offer to 3btc "because btc price went up".
15% discount because btc went 2.3% up, seems legit.
IMO, he tried to get it without escrow and after he ralized it isn't possible he lowerd price so he could call our deal off without looking scammer.

Is there a thread for this auction?
(Like, was it stated beforehand that escrow will be used?)
Did justbtcme (again) bid by private message?

Ente

Looks like it is related to this listing which isn't really an auction - not clear if he is even selling anything at this point just getting a market analysis?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=717290.msg8104555#msg8104555

People back out of auctions all the time around here and while I do not think it is honorable, it is not considered scamming.  My guess is that he was using the escrow as an excuse. 

I agree that the warning to future auction holders is valid if he backed out of his bid. 

Is the coin still available to be purchased?
Ente
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August 01, 2014, 07:19:33 PM
 #14

Wow man, thanks a lot. I said many times I will escrow and here you are doing what you're doing.

That's not what Ente told me. While this isn't a clear cut case of a scam, you do appear to be backing out of an auction that you won. That to me is justification for negative trust, not to mention the fact that you and your alts have been suspect from last year.

You don't want to use escrow? Fine. Pay Ente for the auction you bid on and won, and he'll ship the coin out. If not, your rating will get a bit more colorful by tomorrow.

This sounds like blackmail to me. Forcing a person to buy a coin so they can have neg trust remove is pretty shady.

You bought coins in three cases. You contacted the seller with a bid. When your bid was accepted, you refused to pay. For this and additional reasons you received negative reputation.
Now, tell me again, with a straight face, blackmail, forcing, what?

Ente
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August 01, 2014, 07:21:34 PM
 #15

I'll admit, I do have a bad habit of backing out on a deal if there is a better one around the corner...

That is about the worse thing I've done and I feel like it does not warrant a scam accusation page.
Wow man, thanks a lot. I said many times I will escrow and here you are doing what you're doing.

That's not what Ente told me. While this isn't a clear cut case of a scam, you do appear to be backing out of an auction that you won. That to me is justification for negative trust, not to mention the fact that you and your alts have been suspect from last year.

You don't want to use escrow? Fine. Pay Ente for the auction you bid on and won, and he'll ship the coin out. If not, your rating will get a bit more colorful by tomorrow.

This sounds like blackmail to me. Forcing a person to buy a coin so they can have neg trust remove is pretty shady.

While it doesn't necessarily make you a scammer, it does call into question your character. When you bid on an auctioned item, you are pledging your word you will buy said item at the pledged price. When you back out without just cause, you call into question your word, character and your honesty. When you have proven to have little to no honesty then you have cause to post that you are dishonest. Dishonest people often scam.
Does this clarify things a little better?

When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein
KWH
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August 01, 2014, 07:30:58 PM
 #16

I can name a handful of people that recently backed out of deals to buy coins from me. Even trusted escrow members.

In all fairness, will you guys flag them also?

I won't name anyone because I think it's not fair. People have the right change their mind.

Ente, seeing as you are really pushing me to buy your coin, it just shows how desperate you are to unload that. Why don't you just re-post it again and find another buyer? It's really not a big deal.

This thread is about you and you actions. Trying to use the Bill Clinton defense doesn't work very well. If you didn't want it, you shouldn't have bid on it. You wasted a lot of people's time.

When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein
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August 01, 2014, 07:31:13 PM
 #17

Wow man, thanks a lot. I said many times I will escrow and here you are doing what you're doing.

That's not what Ente told me. While this isn't a clear cut case of a scam, you do appear to be backing out of an auction that you won. That to me is justification for negative trust, not to mention the fact that you and your alts have been suspect from last year.

You don't want to use escrow? Fine. Pay Ente for the auction you bid on and won, and he'll ship the coin out. If not, your rating will get a bit more colorful by tomorrow.

This sounds like blackmail to me. Forcing a person to buy a coin so they can have neg trust remove is pretty shady.

You bought coins in three cases. You contacted the seller with a bid. When your bid was accepted, you refused to pay. For this and additional reasons you received negative reputation.
Now, tell me again, with a straight face, blackmail, forcing, what?

Ente

The key word here is "bought"

Sure I made offers for the coin but since when did I already buy it?

I think the key word is actually "auction".  When you are making bids in an auction format, it is not an "offer" it is a bid to buy at your communicated price.  Try going to your local auction and making "offers" for the items.  You are going to get yourself in quite a bit of trouble when you back out of your "offer".

I would suggest you refrain from participating in auctions if all of you offers are not binding until you pay.
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August 01, 2014, 07:39:15 PM
 #18

djjacket, fair enough.

Let it be known that I habitually backed out of deals. Should this warrant an all out scam accusation and forcing me to buy a coin from months ago? I think not.

Tomatocage, I am ready for your colorful feedback.

When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein
Ente
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August 01, 2014, 07:51:09 PM
 #19

djjacket, fair enough.

Let it be known that I habitually backed out of deals. Should this warrant an all out scam accusation and forcing me to buy a coin from months ago? I think not.

Tomatocage, I am ready for your colorful feedback.

I don't see change in your behavior, nor have the facts my negative rating is based on changed.
You ask me to remove my rating (here and via PM) giving me no reason on why that would be warranted.
You don't want to stick to the three deals you did, nor did you propose any compromise on that.

Here's a compromise I can offer you:
You bit 5 BTC on my casascius coin. As you do not seem to wish actually pay the coin you bought, I instead accept a payment of one bitcoin.
This bitcoin will be sent from an adress you can sign messages with to prove it is from you and will be sent as a donation to Seans Outpost.

This would prove me, in my business with you, that I was off with my rating.

Ente
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August 01, 2014, 07:54:43 PM
 #20

So you want me to pay one bitcoin in order to atone for my sins......
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