[Group Buy #5] ASIC chip design funded by the people keep BTC decentralized

[Maidak]

This is something that I have pondered and have wanted to setup for quite some time before I open this I want to hear opinions.

As we all know we have funded various companies from BFL to KNC to the several other companies that have popped up accepting pre-orders I have ran group buys and seen first hand how this operates I am not entirely fond of being used by a company for them to reap the benefits of the hardware that we paid for to build.

What this group buy is going to be meant for is the design and fabrication of a chip that is sold for a small % above manufacture costs which will be equally distributed between everyone who helps fund this and provides resources to make it happen. It will be a bitcoin only funded project and completely open source.

Anyone here on bitcointalk.org interested in offering the first chip that is not sold at 1000% above production cost to help bring back and keep bitcoin decentralized? If not please post your reason why if you are up for it lets do what the bitcoin foundation should have done a long time ago. I'm very eager to hear responses as this is a rather large project and is going to require a vast amount of funding.

[Maidak]

reserved

[SebastianJu]

So how do you think will that work? I mean some percent above chip production price is ok but the millions for creating a working design and the chips has to be spent too. You need a mass of people to invest. And the question is how long will the chips be worth something after that.

I only have a hard time imagining how this could work financially. I mean the big guys with the thousands of bitcoins most probably came together to create their own chip. If they hadnt enough they created something like 100TH IPO, gave some breadcrumbs back to their investors and had their own mining chip practically for free at the end.

[philipma1957]

love the idea.

but and here is a big but. it needs to be far better then any chip out there.  say a cpu type die fitting an 1150 mobo socket. uses 65-100 watts and it is 2th .

 most newer better gear now is just a bit better. A chip like the one above  .03 to .05 watt per hash is better the the sp30's .46 by a large margin.

 basically it need not  be a break through but in needs to be a big jump in efficient power use.

the last few chips have not popped the power down much.

Most gear comes out not a lot better then anyone else last piece of gear that was a true killer was the knc oct 2013  gear.

[RoadStress]

Most gear comes out not a lot better then anyone else last piece of gear that was a true killer was the knc oct 2013  gear.

That's because you don't understand physics, how chip works and convertors.

[philipma1957]

Most gear comes out not a lot better then anyone else last piece of gear that was a true killer was the knc oct 2013  gear.

That's because you don't understand physics, how chip works and convertors.

I do not need to understand the physics of a chip.  I need to know what is costs to make and how big of an edge I get with it over other chips.  Dropping 1 million usd or 3000 btc to design a chip that does .3 watts does not make a lot of economic sense.  your sp30 chip does .46 watts.

If the asic chip laws of physics prevent a .03 to .05 watt chip.  and the minimum any asic will do is .2 watts.

  then asic chip design  has become a dead end.    Some would think no but if we never do a new jump to far better then a .2 watt chip.  We will need flat growth or btc fiat growth to stay diverse.

Your new machine if it ends up being one of the best we ever get means a dozen cold weather super cloud companies in a country that has very good mining laws.

 A good chip that could do 20 gh on a usb port pulling only 2.5 watts  would be helpful for diversity .   A great chip that could do 50 gh on a usb stick would allow the small miner to get back in the game.

Either  chip above with an anti chaining limit(2 chip max) would mean it has  be an usb hub.  right now You are most likely correct that it can't be done.

Thus BTC will die on the vine.  Where they are a few big companies and that is it.  Jan 1 ant miner  u-1's were hot.

To be a good deal a usb stick needs to be 20-50gh at 2.5 watts  since it is for usb.  nothing is close. at all zip.  So the entire usb stick mining  industry is dying.

People are getting s-1's  200-250 usd and a psu .  I have sold 20 and set up many of them.  8 buyers have all electric homes including the heat.  Big upside for diverse users all over the world.  A small heater that pays you back.

Well I wish the builders of the new chip luck as I have no skills to build one or design  one.

[maardein]

I think the idea is great.

Maybe you could start by trying to get spondoolies, who has the most efficient chip at the moment, to share their chip design with you, so you can have them produced on your own. Then we only need a board design, which they might share with you as well.

Spondoolies claims to be aiming at more decentralization, so it's worth a try...

This would be a great start, and you could use the small profit to start developing your own next gen asic.

[Maidak]

I think the idea is great.

Maybe you could start by trying to get spondoolies, who has the most efficient chip at the moment, to share their chip design with you, so you can have them produced on your own. Then we only need a board design, which they might share with you as well.

Spondoolies claims to be aiming at more decentralization, so it's worth a try...

This would be a great start, and you could use the small profit to start developing your own next gen asic.

I am actually speaking with spondoolies and setting up a conference now. The whole point of this group buy after I work out some logsitics of it is to provide what the people need to keep mining decentralized. It has already been proven that this community can fund millions in vaporware for the company to reap the benefits like BFL for example. For us only to get the chip sold back to us at a 500-1000% higher then production cost.

Keep these posts coming I want to feel confident in this community before funds start being collected. This will only be a BTC only funded project and fully transparent the whole way until the first chips roll off production line.

[zulover]

A great idea, a similar thought did cross my mind, once before i buried it. but dreams can come true.one should follow them at some point.

i wanted to use someone elses chips and do my own boards at least, still in the pipline.

but im interested for sure, its needed.

[crashoveride54902]

sounds like a great idea to me, I've had a thought of a miner company run by miners for the people...not to reap all the benifits selling to the ppl...thought AM was doing a good job, but then they just got blown outta the water and couldn't keep up...I'd invest in it because i believe the way its going right now is if your not hosting these huge machines it'll only be ppl with tons of money to buy these mining machines that will be mining and us little guys will be pushed out, but if you pushed out a great working chip and sold it cheap...then what? are you going to follow thur and make a full miner outta it? or just sell the chip to ppl that will make a full miner outta it and raise the price sky high?

[Maidak]

sounds like a great idea to me, I've had a thought of a miner company run by miners for the people...not to reap all the benifits selling to the ppl...thought AM was doing a good job, but then they just got blown outta the water and couldn't keep up...I'd invest in it because i believe the way its going right now is if your not hosting these huge machines it'll only be ppl with tons of money to buy these mining machines that will be mining and us little guys will be pushed out, but if you pushed out a great working chip and sold it cheap...then what? are you going to follow thur and make a full miner outta it? or just sell the chip to ppl that will make a full miner outta it and raise the price sky high?

First it would be the asic chip itself that would need to be designed, tested and then fabricated on large scale. Which may include royalties to the designer for each chip sold.

Next would be paying for full open source design of USB type device then 16, 32 and 80 chip devices which can vary. After a few test units were made the project would then be openly available to anyone looking at calling a fab company to have them build these boards for you.

After all developer, design and fabricationo costs the chip itself would then be available to everyone. The group who helped fund this project would be a % based on what I would see viable after I calculated estimations which I believe between a 10-20% markup straight from the factory is very reasonable price considering what we all see currently available chip wise in the market. Before I take my time and effort to really bring this to life I really need this to get a bit more attraction then what i've seen since I opened the topic.

IF you are serious about this and would like to be apart of it send a PM on how much in BTC or post here you'd be willing to use to help fund this sort of project. Of course there is other various options as well in this so please post your feedback and how you would like to see something like this done.

[Maidak]

Not to much interest? estimated minimum cost that I've been told is 2.4M Out of every group buy this should be no problem judging from previous group buys I have hosted. Any suggestions or feedback on hesitation?

[jadefalke]

the Interest is there, for me it's hard to get what are the the next Steps what are the Milestones etc. Imagine this would be a Kickstarter Project, you need to be more clear what is the required input and what is the output

[zulover]

I reckon a plan needs to be laid out just like other gb,'s  e.g. 100 shares each share for 2btc etc. And all possible costs profits roi etc.

its a big job even for buying hardware let alone a chip fab. but a guide would encourage more. I wish i could do more, its fantastic idea.

[Maidak]

Alright I'll get to work on it and have the proposal milestones etc written up.

[zulover]

kickstarter would be great for this it would fit in perfectly.

[Maidak]

kickstarter would be great for this it would fit in perfectly.

Explain a bit more possibly? I'm not entirely sure I understand unless you mean like a "kickstarter" in the OP that really lays out the milestones how it would be done and how the investors who help fund this benefit?

[zulover]

https://www.kickstarter.com/

it is a bit of work though.

[mikerbiker6]

I think the custom boards are already there. They just need a little editting.
Check out these projects:

Wasp(the big miners)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422243.0

Nanofury(usb)
I don't think usb miners are going to be it, just not competative anymore.
Stick with the larger formfactor, in the 1000$ range per device.

H-CARD Mini(8 chip)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583569.0

Also I think gawminers is setting up their own production line, maybe you can make a deal with them.

[Maidak]

I think the custom boards are already there. They just need a little editting.
Check out these projects:

Wasp(the big miners)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422243.0

Nanofury(usb)
I don't think usb miners are going to be it, just not competative anymore.
Stick with the larger formfactor, in the 1000$ range per device.

H-CARD Mini(8 chip)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583569.0

Also I think gawminers is setting up their own production line, maybe you can make a deal with them.

I'm familiar with these boards however the main intention of this would be to develop an ASIC chip that is distributed to your everyday miners with a lot less greed in mind.