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Author Topic: Biggest Bitcoin Gambling site: Bitcoinica  (Read 1661 times)
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January 19, 2012, 02:39:56 AM
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Lots of people have been complaining about how the bitcoin economy has not been fundamentally getting larger.  For example paying hosting with bitcoin, or buying your tv with bitcoin.

One of the markets that was said to be very attractive for bitcoin is online gambling; poker and other games.

Well I want to propose that bitcoinica provides as much fundamentals to the bitcoin economy as a poker site of the same size.

  • Trades at matched locally.  (same as with a poker site)
  • There is the potential to make lots of money, or loose lots. (no different to a poker site)
  • People ‘play’ against each other trying to game the market. (again no different to poker)
  • Transaction fees (and spreads) pay for the operation of the site.  (no different to binds in poker)

I propose that just purely as a form of gambling; bitcoinica is doing a great service to the bitcoin community.

One off NP-Hard.
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January 19, 2012, 02:45:08 AM
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Like some guy on slashdot said, Bitcoin is an MMOM (massively multiplay online money). He meant it derisively and as a play on mom's basement but I think it is a good thing. Bitcoinica is like the expansion pack.
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January 19, 2012, 02:47:05 AM
 #3

This is exactly right.

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January 19, 2012, 02:49:59 AM
 #4

I hate bitcoinica.


It reminds me of going to the Bingo hall and they play stupid "quicky" rounds or other stupid add-ons to the game. Those who go know what I'm talking about.

Just play bingo for fuck's sake.

If you get bored of bingo it means you play it too damn much.


If you get bored of mtgox, you're on it way too damn much.
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January 19, 2012, 02:50:02 AM
 #5

i was about to make some flippant comment but i'm glad i took a moment longer to think about what you posted.

you're right.  just look at the COMEX or LBMA in gold futures.  the billions that flow through those exchanges alone each day are comparable to most currencies and really are just gambling sites on the price of gold/silver. 

there's no economy there.  just speculation on future price.

its quite conceivable that Bitcoinica represents a baby version of this.
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January 19, 2012, 02:52:14 AM
 #6

the only problem i have with bitcoinica is it seems to make it easier for people with medium sums of money to cause huge swings.  its my belief that massive swings will deter new adopters who are not purely interested in it for speculation.  a retailer could go bankrupt quickly if the price were to plummet over night.  we're lucky that didnt happen

but hopefully the new brackets will deter this somehow

i just wish mtgox would implement stop loss orders (is that what its called?)
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January 19, 2012, 02:53:13 AM
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i was about to make some flippant comment but i'm glad i took a moment longer to think about what you posted.

you're right.  just look at the COMEX or LBMA in gold futures.  the billions that flow through those exchanges alone each day are comparable to most currencies and really are just gambling sites on the price of gold/silver. 

there's no economy there.  just speculation on future price.

its quite conceivable that Bitcoinica represents a baby version of this.

Are you finally warming up to Bitcoinica?  It certainly has some issues, but at least they are well known (in part thanks to you) and Zhoutong is very active on the forums.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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January 19, 2012, 02:53:49 AM
 #8

i was about to make some flippant comment but i'm glad i took a moment longer to think about what you posted.

you're right.  just look at the COMEX or LBMA in gold futures.  the billions that flow through those exchanges alone each day are comparable to most currencies and really are just gambling sites on the price of gold/silver. 

there's no economy there.  just speculation on future price.

its quite conceivable that Bitcoinica represents a baby version of this.
There’s no gold economy either, even less so than with Bitcoin.

I fully agree with OP btw, you put in words what I felt about Bitcoinica. It’s hilarious people are actually enjoying losing their money for the thrills.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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January 19, 2012, 02:59:00 AM
 #9

i was about to make some flippant comment but i'm glad i took a moment longer to think about what you posted.

you're right.  just look at the COMEX or LBMA in gold futures.  the billions that flow through those exchanges alone each day are comparable to most currencies and really are just gambling sites on the price of gold/silver. 

there's no economy there.  just speculation on future price.

its quite conceivable that Bitcoinica represents a baby version of this.

Are you finally warming up to Bitcoinica?  It certainly has some issues, but at least they are well known (in part thanks to you) and Zhoutong is very active on the forums.

perhaps i am.  i made a post in the proposed exchange thread that i think Zhou should set up an independent exchange.  it would be good for the community i think.

most of the issues i have with Bitcoinica have to do with the separation from mtgox and the price delays.  its too easily gamed as i know firsthand.  all that all goes away if he brings one in house.

i have also observed how he is readily accessible and truly wants to help his customers and the community even tho the way it is structured now has hurt a lot of smaller traders.
notme
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January 19, 2012, 03:00:55 AM
 #10

the only problem i have with bitcoinica is it seems to make it easier for people with medium sums of money to cause huge swings.  its my belief that massive swings will deter new adopters who are not purely interested in it for speculation.

but hopefully the new brackets will deter this somehow

i just wish mtgox would implement stop loss orders (is that what its called?)

New adopters who want to use it for trade may be startled by it, but then they will look at what happened afterwards.  If we crash here, you may have a point.  I don't think that will happen.  What the volatility will bring is sharks looking to profit when it spasms.  The don't have to touch bitcoin at all until someone drops it.  They buy it back up to save the confidence of the longer term investors, then drop them as soon as the permabulls get overconfident.  The way to grow is to tempt these players to cash out their bitcoins for things other than USDs.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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January 19, 2012, 03:03:34 AM
 #11

perhaps i am.  i made a post in the proposed exchange thread that i think Zhou should set up an independent exchange.  it would be good for the community i think.

most of the issues i have with Bitcoinica have to do with the separation from mtgox and the price delays.  its too easily gamed as i know firsthand.  all that all goes away if he brings one in house.

i have also observed how he is readily accessible and truly wants to help his customers and the community even tho the way it is structured now has hurt a lot of smaller traders.

+100 for Zhoutong adding an exchange.

He should still hedge on other exchanges when the price is better though to help keep everything liquid.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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January 19, 2012, 03:06:44 AM
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if Bitcoinica does indeed represent a baby version of the Comex or LBMA, look out!
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January 19, 2012, 03:07:53 AM
 #13

Lots of people have been complaining about how the bitcoin economy has not been fundamentally getting larger.  For example paying hosting with bitcoin, or buying your tv with bitcoin.

One of the markets that was said to be very attractive for bitcoin is online gambling; poker and other games.

Well I want to propose that bitcoinica provides as much fundamentals to the bitcoin economy as a poker site of the same size.

  • Trades at matched locally.  (same as with a poker site)
  • There is the potential to make lots of money, or loose lots. (no different to a poker site)
  • People ‘play’ against each other trying to game the market. (again no different to poker)
  • Transaction fees (and spreads) pay for the operation of the site.  (no different to binds in poker)

I propose that just purely as a form of gambling; bitcoinica is doing a great service to the bitcoin community.


There it is, we have a winner, the #1 bitcoin gambling site on the internet  Smiley

 In the poll thread about Bitcoinica changing their margin limits, someone suggested that even higher margin should be offered along with a lowered account limit, IIRC the post suggested 100:1 with a 10 BTC limit, in order to bring in the gamblers. This seemed a valid suggestion to me but apparently isn't how Zhoutong envisions the site's character.

FWIW, IMO Bitcoinica still has a serious negative impact on the market by offering more margin than they can fund at times, as someone else can still take everyone to the cleaners with a small force of bots/meat puppets, but that's a discussion for another thread.

"Science flies you to the Moon, religion flies you into buildings."
 - Victor Stenger

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and the rulers as useful."
 - Seneca the Elder (ca. 54 BCE - ca. 39 CE) Roman rhetorician
chsados
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January 19, 2012, 03:15:05 AM
 #14

the only problem i have with bitcoinica is it seems to make it easier for people with medium sums of money to cause huge swings.  its my belief that massive swings will deter new adopters who are not purely interested in it for speculation.

but hopefully the new brackets will deter this somehow

i just wish mtgox would implement stop loss orders (is that what its called?)

New adopters who want to use it for trade may be startled by it, but then they will look at what happened afterwards.  If we crash here, you may have a point.  I don't think that will happen.  What the volatility will bring is sharks looking to profit when it spasms.  The don't have to touch bitcoin at all until someone drops it.  They buy it back up to save the confidence of the longer term investors, then drop them as soon as the permabulls get overconfident.  The way to grow is to tempt these players to cash out their bitcoins for things other than USDs.

but do we really want it like this?
i was about to make some flippant comment but i'm glad i took a moment longer to think about what you posted.

you're right.  just look at the COMEX or LBMA in gold futures.  the billions that flow through those exchanges alone each day are comparable to most currencies and really are just gambling sites on the price of gold/silver. 

there's no economy there.  just speculation on future price.

its quite conceivable that Bitcoinica represents a baby version of this.

Are you finally warming up to Bitcoinica?  It certainly has some issues, but at least they are well known (in part thanks to you) and Zhoutong is very active on the forums.

perhaps i am.  i made a post in the proposed exchange thread that i think Zhou should set up an independent exchange.  it would be good for the community i think.

most of the issues i have with Bitcoinica have to do with the separation from mtgox and the price delays.  its too easily gamed as i know firsthand.  all that all goes away if he brings one in house.

i have also observed how he is readily accessible and truly wants to help his customers and the community even tho the way it is structured now has hurt a lot of smaller traders.
i agree, an "in house" marketplace for bitcoinica would probably solve many problems.
notme
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January 19, 2012, 03:19:10 AM
 #15

the only problem i have with bitcoinica is it seems to make it easier for people with medium sums of money to cause huge swings.  its my belief that massive swings will deter new adopters who are not purely interested in it for speculation.

but hopefully the new brackets will deter this somehow

i just wish mtgox would implement stop loss orders (is that what its called?)

New adopters who want to use it for trade may be startled by it, but then they will look at what happened afterwards.  If we crash here, you may have a point.  I don't think that will happen.  What the volatility will bring is sharks looking to profit when it spasms.  The don't have to touch bitcoin at all until someone drops it.  They buy it back up to save the confidence of the longer term investors, then drop them as soon as the permabulls get overconfident.  The way to grow is to tempt these players to cash out their bitcoins for things other than USDs.

but do we really want it like this?
i was about to make some flippant comment but i'm glad i took a moment longer to think about what you posted.

you're right.  just look at the COMEX or LBMA in gold futures.  the billions that flow through those exchanges alone each day are comparable to most currencies and really are just gambling sites on the price of gold/silver. 

there's no economy there.  just speculation on future price.

its quite conceivable that Bitcoinica represents a baby version of this.

Are you finally warming up to Bitcoinica?  It certainly has some issues, but at least they are well known (in part thanks to you) and Zhoutong is very active on the forums.

perhaps i am.  i made a post in the proposed exchange thread that i think Zhou should set up an independent exchange.  it would be good for the community i think.

most of the issues i have with Bitcoinica have to do with the separation from mtgox and the price delays.  its too easily gamed as i know firsthand.  all that all goes away if he brings one in house.

i have also observed how he is readily accessible and truly wants to help his customers and the community even tho the way it is structured now has hurt a lot of smaller traders.
i agree, an "in house" marketplace for bitcoinica would probably solve many problems.

Why not?... When they start making profits, they will have to become long term supporters.  If bitcoin dies, they have to find somewhere else to trade, and little is more profitable.  This is they only free market on Earth that isn't underground.  And underground markets are only as free as how much firepower you have.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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January 19, 2012, 04:05:17 PM
 #16

I never realized Zhou Tong was 17 years old. 
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January 19, 2012, 04:40:08 PM
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At least one person once used Bitcoinica to guarantee a future business obligation in the face of Bitcoin's notorious volatility  That's good enough for me to classify the service as legitimate and valuable.


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