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Author Topic: Dark wallets and Corruption  (Read 1371 times)
LostDutchman
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May 10, 2014, 01:21:54 AM
 #21

Hi all,
I know this is a highly controversial subject, but I see more and more "buzz" around "dark wallets" and such. Even without them, it is already possible for a clever bitcoin user to gain a very high level of privacy, but they take it to the next level and bring it to the public. And yet, is this what we (the people down here) really want? Isn't this massively helping corruption and the financial elite, while giving us just a little comfort? (and an extra way of cheating at all levels) I understand that most people here value privacy very much, but I hope you understand that this is going to be "the privacy of the corrupt elite, while you little ants will still be somehow traceable by the NSA and such".

So the main issue/question is: how do we want this to be highly anonymous, yet crack down corruption at all levels?

Wouldn't be more simple if <any>coin would be completely transparent (e.g. a public blockchain and each address can be publicly tracked back to an individual or organization)? I know, most of you fear that <someone> will discover that you did <this> because everything is now being exposed to the public. I know this poses a problem for activists in countries where they are severely tracked and cracked down. So I somehow agree that "dark wallets" have an immediate (and targeted) use. But what about the future? Do we want a future where everything is dark? We know where that leads to and to whom it really benefits. Although I see the current benefit of dark wallets, I wouldn't want a future where they shape the global way of life.

Sorry if I have missed something (there is so much to read out there that I couldn't possibly read the whole internet - please lead me to the articles I missed) and please argue with courtesy.
And never forget the big picture of my post: corruption loves darkness and hates light. And please prove me wrong, or at least that there are ways to put the "big fishes" under the spotlight while maintaining real privacy for legitimate use by the general public.
For instance, <MR.X> has zillions of <any>coins and has millions of addresses so that nobody sees how rich he is. And of course held in a dark wallet that shuffles all the flood of his (big) money around so that nobody notices these addresses all belong to a single individual, funding his drugs/arms/dark traffic.

Again I would like this to be a calm, constructive and objective debate, I'm a big bitcoin and tor advocate, but the latest "dark" buzzes really rang like warning bells in my ears.

In shorter other words "do we really want to make coins darker for everyone, or should we rather force everyone to use them in the light?"

Make all crypto Dark As Hell to keep criminal governmets out of it.

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May 10, 2014, 01:25:13 AM
 #22

Wealthy people present a target for scammers, kidnappers and the scumbags of the world. I am not talking about the obviously super-rich who need 24-hour bodyguard protection. I am talking more about the nondescript neighbor who has a few million in the bank but leads a regular life. There are plenty of such people around - people with good work ethics who live below their means. Nobody needs to know who they are. This is a good enough reason for keeping Bitcoin holdings and transactions private.
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May 10, 2014, 04:34:59 AM
 #23

Here's the bottom line to all you chickenshit spineless sorts living on your knees, afraid of everything and everyone around:

WHEN - not if but WHEN you rise up and put an end to the overt, in your face, highly transparent corruption, fraud, and criminal actions carried out by your politicians, your presidents, your leaders, your cops, your federal enforcement agencies, your churches, your education facilities, your banking and financial institutions, you daycare centers, your jails and prisons, (etc etc else I'll be here all day writing the countless examples of in your face criminal activity), THEN you can whine, bitch and freak the fuck out over joe blow buying porn and drugs in the privacy of an illegal transaction using an unregulated decentralized virtual currency.

You don't get to make a big stink about how much crime it will facilitate when there's crime all around you that you fucking ignore every day you wake up.

Sorry.

You say "anti government" like that's a bad thing...

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May 10, 2014, 04:39:56 AM
 #24

So - from what I'm reading here, the plan is "let's release dark wallets, have our holy privacy to exchange coins with mycheatingsexsite.com, myklukluxklan.org, myheavydrugsite.net with no one knowing (especially not your spouse, your employer and the government), and help the 1% richest people in the world become richer by making the poor poorer and corrupt more and more people/organization/governments with absolutely no chance to track them down". Did I get it right? Smiley Or is there any plan to limit the second part whatsoever?
(I know I'm presenting things from an extreme angle here, but you get the point)

No.  Many disagree with your assumptions.  Your belief that you have a right to publicly know the private financial details of other individuals is both alarming and the root of your confusing.  

Without the right to privacy you have no other rights, or at best they are on a very shaky foundation.  The freedom of association and speech can be heavily curtailed ("chilling effect") without the right to privacy.
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May 10, 2014, 04:42:29 AM
 #25

So - from what I'm reading here, the plan is "let's release dark wallets, have our holy privacy to exchange coins with mycheatingsexsite.com, myklukluxklan.org, myheavydrugsite.net with no one knowing (especially not your spouse, your employer and the government), and help the 1% richest people in the world become richer by making the poor poorer and corrupt more and more people/organization/governments with absolutely no chance to track them down". Did I get it right? Smiley Or is there any plan to limit the second part whatsoever?
(I know I'm presenting things from an extreme angle here, but you get the point)

No.  Many disagree with your assumptions.  Your belief that you have a right to publicly know the private financial details of other individuals is both alarming and the root of your confusing.   

That's always how it goes at the end of the day - they want to infringe on other peoples' rights but have a shitfit if anyone noses into their business. They want the government there to control what you and I do, but stay out of their own business.

Disturbing.

You say "anti government" like that's a bad thing...

Unfortunate times will bring out the best in good people and the worst in bad people
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May 10, 2014, 05:25:45 AM
 #26

I don't know if this thread   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=475574.0     will be of any interest to you.

I'm now of the opinion that Bitcoin will only survive if transactions are anonymous.

Is it worth Bitcoin surviving ?  On balance, I believe emphatically YES

Agree with you. Finally, take a look at the coins that enforce anonymity especially Darkcoin. It's exploding, and I'm considering going full portfolio on it. It just can't fail.

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