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Author Topic: Are this buying / bticoin websites fooling us  (Read 1059 times)
bcoins
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May 09, 2014, 07:41:43 PM
 #1

Hello

Did anyone notice these buying selling bitcoin sites like unocoin and igot fooling us by shiowing incorrect market rate of bitcoin than showing in exchange websites like bitcoinpricerate.org  ,preev.com , xe.com.
The unocoin Charges 3% + tax and igot charges 1% fees but they actually charges unocoin 7-10% and igot 3-5% by fooling us showing incorrect live rate. Compare the rate with exchange sites and share openion.
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May 10, 2014, 02:54:48 AM
 #2

Hello

Did anyone notice these buying selling bitcoin sites like unocoin and igot fooling us by shiowing incorrect market rate of bitcoin than showing in exchange websites like bitcoinpricerate.org  ,preev.com , xe.com.
The unocoin Charges 3% + tax and igot charges 1% fees but they actually charges unocoin 7-10% and igot 3-5% by fooling us showing incorrect live rate. Compare the rate with exchange sites and share openion.

Come on exchange guys.... respond to the query.... it a valid query
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May 10, 2014, 03:38:49 AM
 #3

I had raised similar concerns regarding another website last year & was given the explanation that it is a marketing ploy to attract more customers & have the prices look more attractive. At my trading platform, I charge a flat 1.5% fee + sevice tax +rs.10(transaction cost). There are no hidden fee or fine prints.
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May 10, 2014, 03:51:11 AM
 #4

Because these sites are not "Trading website" like bitstamp etc.
Unocoin: They are buying bitcoins, keeping them as a stock and selling bitcoins ,they are pretty much like any other currency exchange website or same as buysellbitco.in
Igot: They are doing same thing in India.

They can't run a proper exchange in other words (Trading website) without a proper Money transmitter licence (where money flow can be in large quantities and comes from different parts of world instead of just a single country.)



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May 10, 2014, 04:30:08 AM
 #5

Hello

Did anyone notice these buying selling bitcoin sites like unocoin and igot fooling us by shiowing incorrect market rate of bitcoin than showing in exchange websites like bitcoinpricerate.org  ,preev.com , xe.com.
The unocoin Charges 3% + tax and igot charges 1% fees but they actually charges unocoin 7-10% and igot 3-5% by fooling us showing incorrect live rate. Compare the rate with exchange sites and share openion.

Come on exchange guys.... respond to the query.... it a valid query
8 hours during midnight is not enough time to get the reply Wink

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May 10, 2014, 04:39:34 AM
 #6

I had raised similar concerns regarding another website last year & was given the explanation that it is a marketing ploy to attract more customers & have the prices look more attractive. At my trading platform, I charge a flat 1.5% fee + sevice tax +rs.10(transaction cost). There are no hidden fee or fine prints.
I can see you are comparing two different type of services altogether. What exactly you do as a part of ibitcointrade.com is more or less a escrow service (except that the seller dont know the buyer and you help the buyer/seller to find the counter-party through your web service) where you are not taking any risk and the 1.5% fee you charge adds to direct profits. It is same with bitquick.in as well. These two services are not pegged to any exchange rate from what i know and what ever rate at which the customer is willing to buy or sell is offered to the potential counter party.
I do not complete agree with the reason you have heard last year. What Unocoin does is acting like the real trader. Unocoin will become the buyer if there is a seller and will become the seller if there is a buyer. There are more complications here - will explain when i reply to the OP in next post.

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dashingriddler
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May 10, 2014, 05:24:36 AM
 #7

Hello

Did anyone notice these buying selling bitcoin sites like unocoin and igot fooling us by shiowing incorrect market rate of bitcoin than showing in exchange websites like bitcoinpricerate.org  ,preev.com , xe.com.
The unocoin Charges 3% + tax and igot charges 1% fees but they actually charges unocoin 7-10% and igot 3-5% by fooling us showing incorrect live rate. Compare the rate with exchange sites and share openion.
Um, there are many things you are neglecting here. The websites you are refering to that are showing live rates actually bases it on real time exchanges where buyers and sellers meet. In this model there is no financial risk that is getting involved. The other model is where they just act like escrows where again no financial risk is involved and not even INR or BTC risk is involved for long term. The model of Unocoin is being a trader where Unocoin takes the risk of both rate variations and also risk of holding bitcoins for the customers. Like how exchange rate of btc-e has nothing to do with bitstamp rates because they have their own customer base who determine the present exchange rate, it is in a way same with Unocoin as well. I said "in a way" because the customers do not directly contribute to the exchange rate but they have the influence on it. When there are 10 buyers and just 5 sellers, the btc price will go up so that there is an incentive for more sellers to sell their bitcoins etc - we term this as demand and supply of bitcoins among our customers. We ofcourse do consider some exchange rates while we calcuate the prices but this alone do not determine our prices as we are not buying and selling from those exchanges Smiley.
If you ask me, can there be better days for indian bitcoin buyers and sellers - ofcourse there will be. What Unocoin does is very similar to what CoinBase does in USA. Coinbase offers just 1% exchange because there are numberous number of customers who buy and sell on any given day and hence there is lesser financial risk for them and also they are able to buy bitcoins from international exchanges to square off if they need to which we cannot do in India at large quantities as India do not identify bitcoins as something that can be imported and we have trouble sending tens of thousand USD to other country without a recognized reason by the govt. When Indian exchanges or trading websites see thousands of buying and selling orders on day to day basis, you can expect the spread to come closer and transaction fee to decrease and we hope it is not far away.

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bcoins
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May 10, 2014, 07:58:47 AM
 #8

dashingriddler thanks for much explanation but still did not got answer to my query.
How come their script showing incorrect rates? Did it not synchronize with exchange rate?

Why do fool us like this and show that they are charging 1% and 3% fees. Instead they should show correct exchange rate and no matter they clear charge 5% or 10% for their risk.

However in USD that whatever the exhange rate is on xe or money control we buy/sell it on difference 50 paise

It means the site unocoin put their own rate for bitcion and + fees.

Then the better place will be like localbitcion where buyer sell meets personal and pay them fees of 1% or whatever.

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May 10, 2014, 09:48:21 AM
 #9

dashingriddler thanks for much explanation but still did not got answer to my query.
How come their script showing incorrect rates? Did it not synchronize with exchange rate?

Why do fool us like this and show that they are charging 1% and 3% fees. Instead they should show correct exchange rate and no matter they clear charge 5% or 10% for their risk.

However in USD that whatever the exhange rate is on xe or money control we buy/sell it on difference 50 paise

It means the site unocoin put their own rate for bitcion and + fees.

Then the better place will be like localbitcion where buyer sell meets personal and pay them fees of 1% or whatever.


I am not sure why you call something as incorrect rates. Do you think the rates of bitstamp is incorrect because it is not same as btc-e? All exchange rates are correct based on their own buyers and sellers of bitcoin. Similarly what we show is our rates based on our own buyers and sellers. On the rates determined in this way, we charge our transaction fee.

Also you need to understand if you see a rate of say 450 USD as last traded price on bitstamp, it does not mean you will be able to buy how many ever btc you want at that rate - it could just be a small trade of 0.01 btc that but if you need 100 btc you could spend say 460 USD etc. We call this as depth which matters to us than just the last traded price.

Fortunately or unfortunately the price at which Indian buyers and sellers meet is at a higher price than the international exchanges. So there is a significant incentive for the sellers but still we do not have enough sellers as not many people in India have bitcoin or willing to sell their bitcoins.

I am not sure what exact USD rate you are talking about. To us the USD to INR do not matter so much as we buy and sell only in India for INR. However we bank with ING Vysya who give the USD to INR difference just for 15-25 paise Wink

Yes right we put our own rates for bitcoin based on our buyers and sellers and charge a fee on top of that.

I cannot comment on localbitcoin as it is as well more of the escrow service. On localbitcoin it is the individual buyer or seller who determine the price but on Unocoin we determine the rates based on "our own group of buyers and sellers".

To give you a quick glimpse, lets say i want to sell my bitcoins and if i see best deal on localbitcoins from a trusted party - i will get 26247 per BTC and pay 1% on top of that which ends up 25984. Instead on Unocoin the rate is 27587 and after 3% fee it would be 26759. On some other occasion you could get a better deal there than Unocoin ofcourse.
Infact one of the localbitcoin members who is also very active here on forums get bitcoins from Unocoin when needed as we process the buy orders pretty much as soon as we receive the payment. Cannot disclose the name though.

If you understand that if an exchange is quoting a lower price for you to buy bitcoins then there is a seller who is selling their bitcoins to the exchange at a cheaper rate than the sellers of other exchanges, it would help you analyze the situation better.

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May 10, 2014, 09:53:28 AM
 #10

Why do fool us like this and show that they are charging 1% and 3% fees. Instead they should show correct exchange rate and no matter they clear charge 5% or 10% for their risk.
Btw please explain how exactly do you determine the correct exchange rate. Correct exchange rate should mean at that particular rate, any one including the exchange itself should be able to both buy and sell any number of bitcoins without violating any kind of regulations.

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May 10, 2014, 10:20:31 AM
 #11

Hello

Did anyone notice these buying selling bitcoin sites like unocoin and igot fooling us by shiowing incorrect market rate of bitcoin than showing in exchange websites like bitcoinpricerate.org  ,preev.com , xe.com.
The unocoin Charges 3% + tax and igot charges 1% fees but they actually charges unocoin 7-10% and igot 3-5% by fooling us showing incorrect live rate. Compare the rate with exchange sites and share openion.

Oh ...how did I miss this post ? One basic thing needs to be understood here. There is nothing like a standard Bitcoin rate. If u follow btc-e closely, a few week ago, thousands of coins were dumped over there within a window of a few hours and the rate came down to some 140-200 usd per coin. Bitcoin rate is what actually the market is offering u. A true free market product, with no central authority.

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May 10, 2014, 11:29:47 AM
 #12

Thanks i that case igot is much cheaper then unocoin

If i buy 1 bitcoin today from unocoin i get at 28814 (after deducting their fees)
and
If i buy 1 bitcoin today from igot i get at 28295 (after deducting their fees)


Today's price at igot is Buy Price: 28118.20 (3% Fees + Tax)
and at unocoin buy price is 27870 ( 1% fees, no tax)


And difference is of Rs.500

So to whom should we choose?

Who has clear transparency in business?

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May 10, 2014, 11:41:49 AM
 #13

Why do fool us like this and show that they are charging 1% and 3% fees. Instead they should show correct exchange rate and no matter they clear charge 5% or 10% for their risk.
Btw please explain how exactly do you determine the correct exchange rate. Correct exchange rate should mean at that particular rate, any one including the exchange itself should be able to both buy and sell any number of bitcoins without violating any kind of regulations.

I don't agree with it.

There are bitcion exchange.

The price should be as of xe.com (must popular) or should be as of http://bitcoinprices.com/
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May 10, 2014, 02:45:41 PM
 #14

Thanks i that case igot is much cheaper then unocoin

If i buy 1 bitcoin today from unocoin i get at 28814 (after deducting their fees)
and
If i buy 1 bitcoin today from igot i get at 28295 (after deducting their fees)


Today's price at igot is Buy Price: 28118.20 (3% Fees + Tax)
and at unocoin buy price is 27870 ( 1% fees, no tax)


And difference is of Rs.500

So to whom should we choose?

Who has clear transparency in business?


Unocoin is never trying to compete with other exchanges as of now. If someone is doing it cheaper then they have a seller who sells them cheap bitcoins. For igot - india forms a very tiny market for them but australia is much bigger market where there are lots and lots of buyers and sellers than how many you find in India. But for Unocoin it is just indian customers. So as i explained you before, once we have significant number of buyers and sellers, you can see the spread goes down and also transaction fee goes down.

Its obviously upto you whom ever you want to choose. But i would suggest you to do the calc right - for igot you are applying 3% and unocoin 1% ?

Transparency? I just cannot see what you are talking about. We have disclosed our fee structure though a footer link on every page on unocoin

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May 10, 2014, 02:49:06 PM
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Its obviously upto you whom ever you want to choose. But i would suggest you to do the calc right - for igot you are applying 3% and unocoin 1% ?

Transparency? I just cannot see what you are talking about. We have disclosed our fee structure though a footer link on every page on unocoin

And I would like to mention, in igot they have credit system, you need to send funds first, they will credit funds in your account then you can buy bitcoins. (It can take upto 1-2 days)

In unocoin you just need to place order and send funds, you'll get bitcoins in 1-2 hours maximum. (My personal experiance with unocoin is very good  Wink)
Igot have too many limitations for new users.

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May 10, 2014, 02:59:51 PM
 #16

Why do fool us like this and show that they are charging 1% and 3% fees. Instead they should show correct exchange rate and no matter they clear charge 5% or 10% for their risk.
Btw please explain how exactly do you determine the correct exchange rate. Correct exchange rate should mean at that particular rate, any one including the exchange itself should be able to both buy and sell any number of bitcoins without violating any kind of regulations.

I don't agree with it.

There are bitcion exchange.

The price should be as of xe.com (must popular) or should be as of http://bitcoinprices.com/

It just shows how much understanding you have about bitcoin markets. I would recommend you to spend some time to know about bitcoin prices and the pricing indexes like xe.com and bitcoinprices.com. They do use data from various exchanges to determine the bitcoin prices to show on their service. It is not the exchanges see those prices and adapt their prices accordingly Smiley

Unocoin have also got queries from various other bitcoin price indexes who want to include Unocoin prices as well in their calculation and they were given the access to our api already. They obviously give very less weightage for Unocoin prices as the volume is much less as compared to popular exchanges like btc-e and bitstamp.

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dashingriddler
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May 10, 2014, 03:09:43 PM
 #17


Its obviously upto you whom ever you want to choose. But i would suggest you to do the calc right - for igot you are applying 3% and unocoin 1% ?

Transparency? I just cannot see what you are talking about. We have disclosed our fee structure though a footer link on every page on unocoin

And I would like to mention, in igot they have credit system, you need to send funds first, they will credit funds in your account then you can buy bitcoins. (It can take upto 1-2 days)

In unocoin you just need to place order and send funds, you'll get bitcoins in 1-2 hours maximum. (My personal experiance with unocoin is very good  Wink)
Igot have too many limitations for new users.
Thanks escrow.ms for recommending Unocoin.

Also once you purchase bitcoins using those credits on igot, you will need to apply for withdrawal of those bitcoins and wait few more days before those bitcoins will show up on your wallet.

On the other hand if it is that you are a bitcoin seller and after selling your bitcoins, you need to submit a withdrawal order to get the INR to your bank account and this process takes between 3-12 business days. With Unocoin it is maximum of 3 business days and in most cases it is on the same business day or next business day.

Unocoin can also be used as a bitcoin wallet from where you can send bitcoins instantly for small transactions as we store a couple of bitcoins in hot wallet but with igot it takes time as they store all bitcoins offline.

I am only stating the differences as you have started comparing Unocoin and igot - i am definitely not against igot or any other bitcoin trading services in India or abroad. Every service have its own uniqueness and prominence and choosing whom you want to deal will form your personal preference.

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bcoins
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May 11, 2014, 08:37:11 PM
 #18

Ok i will try both or may be more.
googlesearch
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May 12, 2014, 12:51:39 PM
 #19

Be careful
bcoins
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May 17, 2014, 09:25:40 AM
 #20

Checkout this btcxindia.com new bitcion exchange india showing real and live price . trade at 1% frees
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