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Author Topic: Hardbit hardware wallet?  (Read 4831 times)
openyourmind
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May 11, 2014, 10:21:31 AM
 #21

I trust only open source devices. The chance that it can be hacked is much lower
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emkay47
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May 11, 2014, 10:35:47 AM
 #22

Just read this somewhere :-

'' Editor's notes

My understanding is that you need a mobile phone or computer to transmit the transactions besides hardbit that itself can't connect to the internet for security reasons. It only signs transactions and these transactions with a QR code. The merchant's internet connected computer will broadcast the transaction. This is a novel idea, but requires the merchants to have this ability in their software.

It's not clear how backups are done. Since the device has no internet connection we can be sure it's not backed up to a cloud. It's unlikely that the company can steal your coins. ''

Source - http://bitcoinowl.com/hardbit-bitcoin-hardware-wallet-launched-china

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May 11, 2014, 10:45:55 AM
 #23

Just read this somewhere :-

'' Editor's notes

My understanding is that you need a mobile phone or computer to transmit the transactions besides hardbit that itself can't connect to the internet for security reasons. It only signs transactions and these transactions with a QR code. The merchant's internet connected computer will broadcast the transaction. This is a novel idea, but requires the merchants to have this ability in their software.

It's not clear how backups are done. Since the device has no internet connection we can be sure it's not backed up to a cloud. It's unlikely that the company can steal your coins. ''

Source - http://bitcoinowl.com/hardbit-bitcoin-hardware-wallet-launched-china

Maybe. It's not in the product description on the website tho. If I ordered one and I only found out about having to carry a tracking device in order to use it, it would be completely useless for me. Maybe it's just a bad explanation on the website rather then a scam attempt, thats totally possible, but I still think a merchant should tell his customers what exactly they are buying.

Now that I stated a simple solution to the additional device required, I hope it will be implemented.
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May 11, 2014, 01:12:46 PM
 #24

Can't wait for some unboxing reviews.
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May 11, 2014, 01:13:14 PM
 #25

after thinking about the possibilities and usefulness

1. not ready for layman/averagejoy
2. not to be used for dailyspend
3. risk of trojaned firmware updates

now to explain
1. average joe does not read sourcecode, so will have to trust the vendor they bought it off - big secrity issue
2. if only sending a signed transaction (no privkey displayed to merchant) the device wont know the true balance before or after a transaction, the only possibility would be to have the owner type a balance and let the wallet 'estimate' spend, which can alter due to fee's that may have been added
3. not only can hackers edit the firmware update program on peoples computer. but so can governments. so privkey stealing is not the only risk but so is enabling the phone for government tracking

i think this hardware wallet is just a prototype using a $40 phone to get atleast $60 profit. and then use this profit to make a proper device that does not ever need a firmware update or has any cellphone antenna's inside to prevent from exploitation

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Don't take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist.
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May 11, 2014, 01:40:20 PM
 #26

Before you make all these negative assumptions, maybe wait till there out there and we know the facts.
zeetubes
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May 11, 2014, 02:54:20 PM
 #27

Can anyone work out where they're based in china? I'm going there on saturday for a few weeks in Shenzhen. It would be cool to pick one or two up in person. Even if not, the nice thing about being in china is that shipping between different cities is usually less than a day.
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May 11, 2014, 04:41:29 PM
 #28

Before making negative assumptions lets get some feedback
xu2gang1
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May 12, 2014, 03:06:31 PM
 #29

Hi ,I'm the R&D leader for Hardbit.
Thanks everyone for your interest in Hardbit.
We've sent 14 Hardbits out .2 already in costomers' hands.
Currently we are busy working on polishing online side software and user's manual.
So please forgive us on slow response of questions.
I think the user's manual will answer most of your questions.
And, the full techincal white paper is already published in Chinese. The English version is only 1/3 of the whole article. We will transate that in a week.
Here I put some core ideas why we develop this product:
1 To make a solution that is best effort for Bitcoin safety for dummies.
(For experienced IT guys, they really don't need hardware wallet.)
(Don't try to teach dummies how to protect their Bitcoins. The more they know, the more possibility they lose their Bitcoins)
so,,convenience is not taking into consideration. Only safety, safety ,safety
So please don't compare convenience with online wallets. Hardbit will perfectly lose.
2 To make a system that online client and offline client can come from different providers. This system is based on a simple communication protocol. (An open-protocol system is much more powerful than an open-source software), this system will help build the offline payment eco system of Democurrency.
3 The hardware must be affordable and portable, and last but not least, not easily recognized as a Bitcoin wallet.


xoun
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May 12, 2014, 04:21:30 PM
 #30

Hi,
 I just got a hardbit from the manufacturer in SZ (very kind btw).

What you get:

- 1 android device (2.5'')
- 2 batteries
- 1 USB cable
- 1 USB charger

Hardware:

It is an android 2.5'' phone: you can find same hardware on amazon or ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-New-2-45-touch-screen-the-worlds-smallest-Land-Rover-Android-smartphone-/121215810011, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HIHRWEK/?tag=newvie-20)

Software:

A custom version of android and a wallet application are loaded into the Hardbit.
You have to download an application on your smartphone (it seems that there is only an android version at the moment)

How it works:

The hardbit is using QR codes to communicate with the smartphone. By this way you can sync the balance of the wallet, propagate a transaction and create a backup of the wallet.

The wallet and backups are protected by a password that you are requested to create when your first turn on the hardbit (at least 10 caracters)

First Conclusions:

It is a very smart idea!
However, I would have more details on the way the private key is generated (I will ask a friend to translate the technical document).

If I can find some time, I will upload some pictures tomorrow.
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May 12, 2014, 04:39:14 PM
 #31

By this way you can sync the balance of the wallet, propagate a transaction and create a backup of the wallet.
Sync the balance of which wallet? The offline one of the one on your Tracking device (Smartphone?)?

If it is the offline device, does that mean you can then create Transactions with only the device without having a Tracking device with you? (As you already have everything needed for creating a Tx then). And do they offer a way to sync it without having a tracking device (a software or a website)?
xoun
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May 12, 2014, 05:07:36 PM
 #32

By this way you can sync the balance of the wallet, propagate a transaction and create a backup of the wallet.
Sync the balance of which wallet? The offline one of the one on your Tracking device (Smartphone?)?

If it is the offline device, does that mean you can then create Transactions with only the device without having a Tracking device with you? (As you already have everything needed for creating a Tx then). And do they offer a way to sync it without having a tracking device (a software or a website)?

Sync the balance of the offline device (the device prevents you from creating a transaction if the payment amount is bigger than the balance, so you have to sync the balance when you receive bitcoins on the hardbit address)

http://img11.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_288629201405130057171.jpg

http://img11.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_604753201405122252051.jpg

1/ Scan the QR code generated by the hardbit with your smartphone
2/ Scan the QR code generated by your smartphone with the hardbit
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May 12, 2014, 05:17:16 PM
 #33

By this way you can sync the balance of the wallet, propagate a transaction and create a backup of the wallet.
Sync the balance of which wallet? The offline one of the one on your Tracking device (Smartphone?)?

If it is the offline device, does that mean you can then create Transactions with only the device without having a Tracking device with you? (As you already have everything needed for creating a Tx then). And do they offer a way to sync it without having a tracking device (a software or a website)?

Sync the balance of the offline device (the device prevents you from creating a transaction if the payment amount is bigger than the balance, so you have to sync the balance when you receive bitcoins on the hardbit address)





1/ Scan the QR code generated by the hardbit with your smartphone
2/ Scan the QR code generated by your smartphone with the hardbit

Interesting, so it doesn't only sync the balance but enables the offline device to function without the Tracking device once it was synced (so it syncs outputs?).
Just want to make sure thats how it works. If yes, I'd like to have another way of syncing it than a Tracking device. Maybe someone from the Developers read this and create something. If not, I can do a web based version that does that if I know how the QR code is build and what information it requires
xoun
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May 12, 2014, 05:36:39 PM
 #34

Interesting, so it doesn't only sync the balance but enables the offline device to function without the Tracking device once it was synced (so it syncs outputs?).
Just want to make sure thats how it works. If yes, I'd like to have another way of syncing it than a Tracking device. Maybe someone from the Developers read this and create something. If not, I can do a web based version that does that if I know how the QR code is build and what information it requires

For ourputs, the hardbit is generating a QR code (the signed transaction) and you have to scan it to propagate the transaction using your smartphone.
I agree that a web based version would be nice (something like http://www.visualbtc.com/)
Aswan
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May 12, 2014, 05:51:22 PM
 #35

Interesting, so it doesn't only sync the balance but enables the offline device to function without the Tracking device once it was synced (so it syncs outputs?).
Just want to make sure thats how it works. If yes, I'd like to have another way of syncing it than a Tracking device. Maybe someone from the Developers read this and create something. If not, I can do a web based version that does that if I know how the QR code is build and what information it requires

For ourputs, the hardbit is generating a QR code (the signed transaction) and you have to scan it to propagate the transaction using your smartphone.
I agree that a web based version would be nice (something like http://www.visualbtc.com/)

I meant output as in output of a previous transaction, not the output of the device.
Like the outputs you need in order to create valid transaction. But I think that got answered as well as you said it can create transactions (instead of just singing them like with an armory offline wallet?).

So what you need is something or someone to take the hardbit created signed Tx and broadcast it? That can be some by a webcam on a computer or the merchant then. Hope this kind of bitcoin storage will become more popular as it's really easy to use and allows for fast payments as brick and mortar stores. I also hope it will become common to take send those Transactions for the customer so people like me who don't carry tracking devices can still pay.

I am looking forward to the translation of the technical details and hope it really works the way I now think it does.
franky1
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May 12, 2014, 07:21:17 PM
 #36

one sync and android update later and the custom software would now be phone and internet enabled.... major risk.

i will treat this PHONE as a prototype until the next gen which we all hope is using a hardware devce that is not a phone. but at most a PDA (no antenna inside) or a custom board.

a step in the right direction, but not quite there yet

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Don't take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist.
Boris-The-Blade
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May 12, 2014, 07:53:40 PM
 #37

I dont think i can trust these just yet, Not until a reputable company comes out and delivers the goods.
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May 12, 2014, 08:34:58 PM
 #38

I have one and i love it  Wink
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May 12, 2014, 10:11:36 PM
 #39

How is the private key generated?
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May 12, 2014, 11:57:32 PM
 #40

why not with your phone?..
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