Hardbit hardware wallet?

[Alley]

http://www.dcmagnates.com/physical-bitcoin-wallet-hardbit-launched-in-china-rest-of-the-world-to-follow/


Just heard about this and supposedly launches internationally tomorrow?  Alternative to trezor and bitsafe?

 http://www.hardbit.cn

[1715145690]

1715145690

[stereotype]

I guess we wait for reports of real-world testing now.

Was expecting sub 0.25btc price, so not too bad.

[fryarminer]

I suppose China is still very much involved with Bitcoin.

[AtomicDoge]

I would not trust any device that was not open source. How do we know this cannot be hacked? How do we know that this isn't sending our private keys to the firm?

[emkay47]

I just ordered 4 of them .
Payment was accepted and got a mail from them that they will be shipped on Monday .

Will post the unboxing here .

There is not much info on hardbit.cn . I mean no technical data and stuff .
But i hope its open source , or it will be hard to trust them .

Also , open source will help us install some cool wallpapers and BTC receiving and sending sounds , I guess !!

It , looked good , could not resist myself , so ordered 4 of the .
Hope they turn out good .

I paid for 2 plastic Trezors in Sep. last year , have received nothing , and they have asked for 12 more weeks .
And those were 1 BTC each , these are damn cheap with cool display and rugid body .

Though , i wonder , how's its battery life .

[fryarminer]

I would not trust any device that was not open source. How do we know this cannot be hacked? How do we know that this isn't sending our private keys to the firm?

it seems by the pic that it is android based. So it probably is open source.

[Aswan]

A Bitcoin transaction operated on Hardbit only needs 3 steps: scan the payment request, input password, show your transaction QR to receiver. This is not complex compared to software wallet on smartphone, and is more convienent compared to software wallets on computers.

Wait how does the device get the outputs that are used as input? On the website it says the device is never connected to the internet so how does it get the blockchain or the SPV information?

[emkay47]

A Bitcoin transaction operated on Hardbit only needs 3 steps: scan the payment request, input password, show your transaction QR to receiver. This is not complex compared to software wallet on smartphone, and is more convienent compared to software wallets on computers.

Wait how does the device get the outputs that are used as input? On the website it says the device is never connected to the internet so how does it get the blockchain or the SPV information?

You need a smart phone with internet to complete the transaction from HardBit .

[Aswan]

A Bitcoin transaction operated on Hardbit only needs 3 steps: scan the payment request, input password, show your transaction QR to receiver. This is not complex compared to software wallet on smartphone, and is more convienent compared to software wallets on computers.

Wait how does the device get the outputs that are used as input? On the website it says the device is never connected to the internet so how does it get the blockchain or the SPV information?

You need a smart phone with internet to complete the transaction from HardBit .

Do you have any sources for that and is there another option (live feeding it SPV information before you leave home or something like that?). I really have to interest in carrying a tracking device all the time.
Where can I get more information about hardbit?

[franky1]

its a phone.. can anyone else not see that...

so it looks to me to be a rooted phone with custom software. and i bet it still has all the antenna and cellphone chips inside.. so i call this a hobby device for fanboys and not a end-product for serious investors.

although i presume all the phone code for making calls and accessing the internet is scrubbed out and all the new software does is form signed transactions and converts that into a QR code to then be transmitted by the payee.

i wouldnt say its 100% secure. especially if buying from third party vendors who can add software to re-enable internet access (trojan) to snoop on their customers activities and privkeys.

in short, its a step in the right direction but not a 100% secure method for average jo or rich investors that dont know how to check sourcecode.

[emkay47]

A Bitcoin transaction operated on Hardbit only needs 3 steps: scan the payment request, input password, show your transaction QR to receiver. This is not complex compared to software wallet on smartphone, and is more convienent compared to software wallets on computers.

Wait how does the device get the outputs that are used as input? On the website it says the device is never connected to the internet so how does it get the blockchain or the SPV information?

You need a smart phone with internet to complete the transaction from HardBit .

Do you have any sources for that and is there another option (live feeding it SPV information before you leave home or something like that?). I really have to interest in carrying a tracking device all the time.
Where can I get more information about hardbit?

http://www.dcmagnates.com/physical-bitcoin-wallet-hardbit-launched-in-china-rest-of-the-world-to-follow/

Read where it says :-

'' The device doesn’t have the ability to connect to the internet, meaning another device, e.g. a smartphone will be needed to complete the transaction. ''

I don't know how much of that is true and how it works .
I will be receiving mine very soon , within 3-4 days .

Ill post everything .

[Aswan]

A Bitcoin transaction operated on Hardbit only needs 3 steps: scan the payment request, input password, show your transaction QR to receiver. This is not complex compared to software wallet on smartphone, and is more convienent compared to software wallets on computers.

Wait how does the device get the outputs that are used as input? On the website it says the device is never connected to the internet so how does it get the blockchain or the SPV information?

You need a smart phone with internet to complete the transaction from HardBit .

Do you have any sources for that and is there another option (live feeding it SPV information before you leave home or something like that?). I really have to interest in carrying a tracking device all the time.
Where can I get more information about hardbit?

http://www.dcmagnates.com/physical-bitcoin-wallet-hardbit-launched-in-china-rest-of-the-world-to-follow/

Read where it says :-

'' The device doesn’t have the ability to connect to the internet, meaning another device, e.g. a smartphone will be needed to complete the transaction. ''

I don't know how much of that is true and how it works .
I will be receiving mine very soon , within 3-4 days .

Ill post everything .

But theres ways around the requirement for another device if you can sync is like an SPV client before leaving our home. This should be implemented asap since it can remove the requirement of an additional device.

[emkay47]

A Bitcoin transaction operated on Hardbit only needs 3 steps: scan the payment request, input password, show your transaction QR to receiver. This is not complex compared to software wallet on smartphone, and is more convienent compared to software wallets on computers.

Wait how does the device get the outputs that are used as input? On the website it says the device is never connected to the internet so how does it get the blockchain or the SPV information?

You need a smart phone with internet to complete the transaction from HardBit .

Do you have any sources for that and is there another option (live feeding it SPV information before you leave home or something like that?). I really have to interest in carrying a tracking device all the time.
Where can I get more information about hardbit?

http://www.dcmagnates.com/physical-bitcoin-wallet-hardbit-launched-in-china-rest-of-the-world-to-follow/

Read where it says :-

'' The device doesn’t have the ability to connect to the internet, meaning another device, e.g. a smartphone will be needed to complete the transaction. ''

I don't know how much of that is true and how it works .
I will be receiving mine very soon , within 3-4 days .

Ill post everything .

But theres ways around the requirement for another device if you can sync is like an SPV client before leaving our home. This should be implemented asap since it can remove the requirement of an additional device.

I think if the receiver has internet , the hardbit wallet does not require any connection .
Basically , you scan the payment QR to pay , you put you password to proceed and then you get a QR code , which the receiver then scans to receive the amount hardbit have sent .
I don't know how's that possible but it says :-

'' Hardbit only needs 3 steps: scan the payment request, input password, show your transaction QR to receiver. ''

Also , i think offline payment can also be done .

'' Because Hardbit can work offline, so it can act like bank cards for payment in shops. It enables immediate confirmation because double spending is avoided by changing the transaction broadcaster  from payer to payee. '' .

Its confusing , but it seems , HardBit is a solo unit and will work without any thing else .
The main purpose of HardBit wallet is to eliminate the automatic connection to various channels like internet , wifi , NFC , which leaks the private key . HardBit has no such channels .

I still wonder , how will eventually submit the transaction through a smartphone with internet .

Maybe , it creates a part - private key for the exact amount to be sent , and the receiver the scans that private key and import the amount . If this is the case , then its super cool , as you don't need internet at all to send the payment .

[franky1]

 Because Hardbit can work offline, so it can act like bank cards for payment in shops. It enables immediate confirmation because double spending is avoided by changing the transaction broadcaster  from payer to payee.

can?

why use the word can..

shouldnt it be wrote like:
Because Hardbit works offline, so it acts like bank cards for payment in shops. It enables immediate confirmation because double spending is avoided by changing the transaction broadcaster  from payer to payee.

[JamesSchofield]

Well i for one would love a reliable trustworthy hardware wallet.

[emkay47]

Because Hardbit can work offline, so it can act like bank cards for payment in shops. It enables immediate confirmation because double spending is avoided by changing the transaction broadcaster  from payer to payee.

can?

why use the word can..

shouldnt it be wrote like:
Because Hardbit works offline, so it acts like bank cards for payment in shops. It enables immediate confirmation because double spending is avoided by changing the transaction broadcaster  from payer to payee.

Its basically Chinese guys trying English . So , these '' can '' errors are acceptable .
Hopefully , It actually does work offline .

[cozk]

I would not trust any device that was not open source. How do we know this cannot be hacked? How do we know that this isn't sending our private keys to the firm?

+1

Open source or gtfo.

[Alley]

I have a smartphone for everyday payments.  I look to use this as a storage only device at home so I don't need to carry around tons of btc on me.  Just need more info on security\open source and battery life.  How is it backed up?  Doesn't say...

[Aswan]

A Bitcoin transaction operated on Hardbit only needs 3 steps: scan the payment request, input password, show your transaction QR to receiver. This is not complex compared to software wallet on smartphone, and is more convienent compared to software wallets on computers.

Wait how does the device get the outputs that are used as input? On the website it says the device is never connected to the internet so how does it get the blockchain or the SPV information?

You need a smart phone with internet to complete the transaction from HardBit .

Do you have any sources for that and is there another option (live feeding it SPV information before you leave home or something like that?). I really have to interest in carrying a tracking device all the time.
Where can I get more information about hardbit?

http://www.dcmagnates.com/physical-bitcoin-wallet-hardbit-launched-in-china-rest-of-the-world-to-follow/

Read where it says :-

'' The device doesn’t have the ability to connect to the internet, meaning another device, e.g. a smartphone will be needed to complete the transaction. ''

I don't know how much of that is true and how it works .
I will be receiving mine very soon , within 3-4 days .

Ill post everything .

But theres ways around the requirement for another device if you can sync is like an SPV client before leaving our home. This should be implemented asap since it can remove the requirement of an additional device.

I think if the receiver has internet , the hardbit wallet does not require any connection .
Basically , you scan the payment QR to pay , you put you password to proceed and then you get a QR code , which the receiver then scans to receive the amount hardbit have sent .
I don't know how's that possible but it says :-

'' Hardbit only needs 3 steps: scan the payment request, input password, show your transaction QR to receiver. ''

Also , i think offline payment can also be done .

'' Because Hardbit can work offline, so it can act like bank cards for payment in shops. It enables immediate confirmation because double spending is avoided by changing the transaction broadcaster  from payer to payee. '' .

Its confusing , but it seems , HardBit is a solo unit and will work without any thing else .
The main purpose of HardBit wallet is to eliminate the automatic connection to various channels like internet , wifi , NFC , which leaks the private key . HardBit has no such channels .

I still wonder , how will eventually submit the transaction through a smartphone with internet .

Maybe , it creates a part - private key for the exact amount to be sent , and the receiver the scans that private key and import the amount . If this is the case , then its super cool , as you don't need internet at all to send the payment .

Maybe you are not familiar with how bitcoin transactions work. A Transaction doesn't just include sending and receiving addresses plus the amounts. If required previous outputs as inputs to be valid. How does the device know about the output of a transaction I received 1 day ago? Is has to somehow get to know it because otherwise it cannot create a transaction.

The way it is explained the transaction also doesn't get created by the merchant (who has the blockchain) because for that you'd have to somehow give the merchant all possible addresses you might be using or a seed for a deterministic address generation. None of these options is not part of the "only needs 3 steps" and it would be a major privacy issue as well.

The only options are feeding it the output information or having the transaction created by another device. However, the latter would require more than the 3 steps for every payment (so it's not used here) and the former isn't mentioned anywhere.

I don't see a way this device can work the way it is explained and I don't think there is one except if it is using a 3rd party payment processor you have to leave your coins with, which would defeat the whole purpose of such a secure device in there first place.

Therefore I am going to consider this as a scam attempt until it is revealed how the user has to feed the device the output information (A part not explained on the website).
If is needs another device like a tracker (Smartphone?) with Internet connection to work properly, I'll consider it a scam as well because it's nowhere mentioned on the website and won't work as advertised with the 3-step-model then.

Looking forward to see if people who ordered actually get one O_o

[emkay47]

Dude are you even serious ?
There are multiple pictures already for this device .
I would not take it as a scam attempt at all .
It might be just another Android device , for sure , but it works.

And the guy who owns this HardBit , Has been developing the code since long back .

I'm damn sure there will be a simple solution to make the payment . Its just not written on their website or stuff .
I'll be receiving them soon .
Will let you know .

[openyourmind]

I trust only open source devices. The chance that it can be hacked is much lower

[emkay47]

Just read this somewhere :-

'' Editor's notes

My understanding is that you need a mobile phone or computer to transmit the transactions besides hardbit that itself can't connect to the internet for security reasons. It only signs transactions and these transactions with a QR code. The merchant's internet connected computer will broadcast the transaction. This is a novel idea, but requires the merchants to have this ability in their software.

It's not clear how backups are done. Since the device has no internet connection we can be sure it's not backed up to a cloud. It's unlikely that the company can steal your coins. ''

Source - http://bitcoinowl.com/hardbit-bitcoin-hardware-wallet-launched-china

[Aswan]

Just read this somewhere :-

'' Editor's notes

My understanding is that you need a mobile phone or computer to transmit the transactions besides hardbit that itself can't connect to the internet for security reasons. It only signs transactions and these transactions with a QR code. The merchant's internet connected computer will broadcast the transaction. This is a novel idea, but requires the merchants to have this ability in their software.

It's not clear how backups are done. Since the device has no internet connection we can be sure it's not backed up to a cloud. It's unlikely that the company can steal your coins. ''

Source - http://bitcoinowl.com/hardbit-bitcoin-hardware-wallet-launched-china

Maybe. It's not in the product description on the website tho. If I ordered one and I only found out about having to carry a tracking device in order to use it, it would be completely useless for me. Maybe it's just a bad explanation on the website rather then a scam attempt, thats totally possible, but I still think a merchant should tell his customers what exactly they are buying.

Now that I stated a simple solution to the additional device required, I hope it will be implemented.

[Alley]

Can't wait for some unboxing reviews.

[franky1]

after thinking about the possibilities and usefulness

1. not ready for layman/averagejoy
2. not to be used for dailyspend
3. risk of trojaned firmware updates

now to explain
1. average joe does not read sourcecode, so will have to trust the vendor they bought it off - big secrity issue
2. if only sending a signed transaction (no privkey displayed to merchant) the device wont know the true balance before or after a transaction, the only possibility would be to have the owner type a balance and let the wallet 'estimate' spend, which can alter due to fee's that may have been added
3. not only can hackers edit the firmware update program on peoples computer. but so can governments. so privkey stealing is not the only risk but so is enabling the phone for government tracking

i think this hardware wallet is just a prototype using a $40 phone to get atleast $60 profit. and then use this profit to make a proper device that does not ever need a firmware update or has any cellphone antenna's inside to prevent from exploitation

[Alley]

Before you make all these negative assumptions, maybe wait till there out there and we know the facts.

[zeetubes]

Can anyone work out where they're based in china? I'm going there on saturday for a few weeks in Shenzhen. It would be cool to pick one or two up in person. Even if not, the nice thing about being in china is that shipping between different cities is usually less than a day.

[professorXY]

Before making negative assumptions lets get some feedback

[xu2gang1]

Hi ，I'm the R&D leader for Hardbit.
Thanks everyone for your interest in Hardbit.
We've sent 14 Hardbits out .2 already in costomers' hands.
Currently we are busy working on polishing online side software and user's manual.
So please forgive us on slow response of questions.
I think the user's manual will answer most of your questions.
And, the full techincal white paper is already published in Chinese. The English version is only 1/3 of the whole article. We will transate that in a week.
Here I put some core ideas why we develop this product:
1 To make a solution that is best effort for Bitcoin safety for dummies.
(For experienced IT guys, they really don't need hardware wallet.)
(Don't try to teach dummies how to protect their Bitcoins. The more they know, the more possibility they lose their Bitcoins)
so,,convenience is not taking into consideration. Only safety, safety ,safety
So please don't compare convenience with online wallets. Hardbit will perfectly lose.
2 To make a system that online client and offline client can come from different providers. This system is based on a simple communication protocol. (An open-protocol system is much more powerful than an open-source software), this system will help build the offline payment eco system of Democurrency.
3 The hardware must be affordable and portable, and last but not least, not easily recognized as a Bitcoin wallet.

[xoun]

Hi,
 I just got a hardbit from the manufacturer in SZ (very kind btw).

What you get:

- 1 android device (2.5'')
- 2 batteries
- 1 USB cable
- 1 USB charger

Hardware:

It is an android 2.5'' phone: you can find same hardware on amazon or ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-New-2-45-touch-screen-the-worlds-smallest-Land-Rover-Android-smartphone-/121215810011, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HIHRWEK/?tag=newvie-20)

Software:

A custom version of android and a wallet application are loaded into the Hardbit.
You have to download an application on your smartphone (it seems that there is only an android version at the moment)

How it works:

The hardbit is using QR codes to communicate with the smartphone. By this way you can sync the balance of the wallet, propagate a transaction and create a backup of the wallet.

The wallet and backups are protected by a password that you are requested to create when your first turn on the hardbit (at least 10 caracters)

First Conclusions:

It is a very smart idea!
However, I would have more details on the way the private key is generated (I will ask a friend to translate the technical document).

If I can find some time, I will upload some pictures tomorrow.

[Aswan]

By this way you can sync the balance of the wallet, propagate a transaction and create a backup of the wallet.

Sync the balance of which wallet? The offline one of the one on your Tracking device (Smartphone?)?

If it is the offline device, does that mean you can then create Transactions with only the device without having a Tracking device with you? (As you already have everything needed for creating a Tx then). And do they offer a way to sync it without having a tracking device (a software or a website)?

[xoun]

By this way you can sync the balance of the wallet, propagate a transaction and create a backup of the wallet.

Sync the balance of which wallet? The offline one of the one on your Tracking device (Smartphone?)?

If it is the offline device, does that mean you can then create Transactions with only the device without having a Tracking device with you? (As you already have everything needed for creating a Tx then). And do they offer a way to sync it without having a tracking device (a software or a website)?

Sync the balance of the offline device (the device prevents you from creating a transaction if the payment amount is bigger than the balance, so you have to sync the balance when you receive bitcoins on the hardbit address)

http://img11.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_288629201405130057171.jpg

http://img11.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_604753201405122252051.jpg

1/ Scan the QR code generated by the hardbit with your smartphone
2/ Scan the QR code generated by your smartphone with the hardbit

[Aswan]

By this way you can sync the balance of the wallet, propagate a transaction and create a backup of the wallet.

Sync the balance of which wallet? The offline one of the one on your Tracking device (Smartphone?)?

If it is the offline device, does that mean you can then create Transactions with only the device without having a Tracking device with you? (As you already have everything needed for creating a Tx then). And do they offer a way to sync it without having a tracking device (a software or a website)?

Sync the balance of the offline device (the device prevents you from creating a transaction if the payment amount is bigger than the balance, so you have to sync the balance when you receive bitcoins on the hardbit address)





1/ Scan the QR code generated by the hardbit with your smartphone
2/ Scan the QR code generated by your smartphone with the hardbit

Interesting, so it doesn't only sync the balance but enables the offline device to function without the Tracking device once it was synced (so it syncs outputs?).
Just want to make sure thats how it works. If yes, I'd like to have another way of syncing it than a Tracking device. Maybe someone from the Developers read this and create something. If not, I can do a web based version that does that if I know how the QR code is build and what information it requires

[xoun]

Interesting, so it doesn't only sync the balance but enables the offline device to function without the Tracking device once it was synced (so it syncs outputs?).
Just want to make sure thats how it works. If yes, I'd like to have another way of syncing it than a Tracking device. Maybe someone from the Developers read this and create something. If not, I can do a web based version that does that if I know how the QR code is build and what information it requires

For ourputs, the hardbit is generating a QR code (the signed transaction) and you have to scan it to propagate the transaction using your smartphone.
I agree that a web based version would be nice (something like http://www.visualbtc.com/)

[Aswan]

Interesting, so it doesn't only sync the balance but enables the offline device to function without the Tracking device once it was synced (so it syncs outputs?).
Just want to make sure thats how it works. If yes, I'd like to have another way of syncing it than a Tracking device. Maybe someone from the Developers read this and create something. If not, I can do a web based version that does that if I know how the QR code is build and what information it requires

For ourputs, the hardbit is generating a QR code (the signed transaction) and you have to scan it to propagate the transaction using your smartphone.
I agree that a web based version would be nice (something like http://www.visualbtc.com/)

I meant output as in output of a previous transaction, not the output of the device.
Like the outputs you need in order to create valid transaction. But I think that got answered as well as you said it can create transactions (instead of just singing them like with an armory offline wallet?).

So what you need is something or someone to take the hardbit created signed Tx and broadcast it? That can be some by a webcam on a computer or the merchant then. Hope this kind of bitcoin storage will become more popular as it's really easy to use and allows for fast payments as brick and mortar stores. I also hope it will become common to take send those Transactions for the customer so people like me who don't carry tracking devices can still pay.

I am looking forward to the translation of the technical details and hope it really works the way I now think it does.

[franky1]

one sync and android update later and the custom software would now be phone and internet enabled.... major risk.

i will treat this PHONE as a prototype until the next gen which we all hope is using a hardware devce that is not a phone. but at most a PDA (no antenna inside) or a custom board.

a step in the right direction, but not quite there yet

[Boris-The-Blade]

I dont think i can trust these just yet, Not until a reputable company comes out and delivers the goods.

[PeterReid]

I have one and i love it 

[Alley]

How is the private key generated?

[Bibop]

why not with your phone?..

[Aswan]

why not with your phone?..

Because a phone has a few flaws in in this regard and generally.

First of all, exactly 0 of todays Tracking devices (Smartphones?) are truly open source. Yeah the OS might be open source but things like the baseband software etc are not, and this is where the trouble starts since this is easily used as a backdoor to not only robbing you of your privacy but also your bitcoins.
Secondly, almost all of todays tracking devices are able to establish connections to other things and therefore make it possible for others to access your data, bitcoins, location, habits, messages etc. via WLAN/Internet/Bluetooth etc.
Thirdly, those devices are a major privacy issue in almost all regards, which cang et even worse by using a Currency like bitcoin which links not only the current payment, but different addresses / transaction /purchases to you by just using your Tracing device, which is being monitored by who knows, to pay for something.


A Wallet device like Hardbit can solve most if not all of these issues. Yes it is on a Tracking device with disabled communication abilities and therefore the device is not completely open source but it's a step in the right direction and even tho Hardbit won't be the new thing every bitcoiner wants to have, it's a step in the right direction which can lead to a truly open source device featuring all these things.
Such a custom device then cannot connect to anything because it doesn't have the required hardware, which makes it even safer. It's also not as much of a privacy issue as a Tracking device and therefore stays true to the early bitcoin values that unfortunately seem to fade within the community. However, there are still a lot of us who value their privacy.

The only thing that needs additional adoption is merchants offering sending the Transactions for their customers. If this gets traction, you can just pay without having to carry around your own Internet capable device.

[emkay47]

The only thing that needs additional adoption is merchants offering sending the Transactions for their customers. If this gets traction, you can just pay without having to carry around your own Internet capable device.
[/quote]

+1

[xu2gang1]

User manual is uploaded.
http://www.hardbit.cn/index.php/downloads
Hope it can answer most of your question.
For questions unsolved, I will answer them in the coming days.
In 1 or 2 days, the translation of techincal white payper will be finished.

[joshuad31]

Ok so I received two of my hardbits today.  I would like to direct people to the users manual which is located here:
http://www.hardbit.cn/index.php/downloads

As the instructions show you use this device with software installed on another android device.  How these two devices communicate are made clear in the users manual if you download the link.  All communication is done via QR codes.

The problem I have is this:
1. No way to upload your own private key.  You must use the private key that comes with your wallet.  This means we need to rely on a third party hardbit.cn to assure us that the private key they generated was either destroyed or is kept somewhere securely.
2. No way to download the private key on the wallet without using their proprietary backup system.
3. No way to via a usb connection transmit data to / from the device.

For these reasons I feel that this product will not suit my needs.  I will be returning this device because I need a device that fulfills the following requirements:

1. I have control of the private keys not a third party
2. If something were to happen to my private keys outside of the hardbit device then I can export the keys within the device to my computer in a format that can be loaded into any other bitcoin wallet.
3. USB is used to transmit data to the device to allow for the device to receive private keys generated outside of the device.  If those keys are lost usb is used to send private keys within the device to an application running on my computer such as blockchain.info.  USB is used to receive payment requests and it is used to send sign transactions to a wallet software such as blockchain.info.

If the above is your expectation also then DO NOT PURCHASE THIS PRODUCT.

Hi ，I'm the R&D leader for Hardbit.
Thanks everyone for your interest in Hardbit.
We've sent 14 Hardbits out .2 already in costomers' hands.
Currently we are busy working on polishing online side software and user's manual.
So please forgive us on slow response of questions.
I think the user's manual will answer most of your questions.
And, the full techincal white paper is already published in Chinese. The English version is only 1/3 of the whole article. We will transate that in a week.
Here I put some core ideas why we develop this product:
1 To make a solution that is best effort for Bitcoin safety for dummies.
(For experienced IT guys, they really don't need hardware wallet.)
(Don't try to teach dummies how to protect their Bitcoins. The more they know, the more possibility they lose their Bitcoins)
so,,convenience is not taking into consideration. Only safety, safety ,safety
So please don't compare convenience with online wallets. Hardbit will perfectly lose.
2 To make a system that online client and offline client can come from different providers. This system is based on a simple communication protocol. (An open-protocol system is much more powerful than an open-source software), this system will help build the offline payment eco system of Democurrency.
3 The hardware must be affordable and portable, and last but not least, not easily recognized as a Bitcoin wallet.

[Alley]

Very good points.  I don't think I can trust a device with a private key I didn't produce myself offline.

[Aswan]

Ok so I received two of my hardbits today.  I would like to direct people to the users manual which is located here:
http://www.hardbit.cn/index.php/downloads

As the instructions show you use this device with software installed on another android device.  How these two devices communicate are made clear in the users manual if you download the link.  All communication is done via QR codes.

The problem I have is this:
1. No way to upload your own private key.  You must use the private key that comes with your wallet.  This means we need to rely on a third party hardbit.cn to assure us that the private key they generated was either destroyed or is kept somewhere securely.
2. No way to download the private key on the wallet without using their proprietary backup system.
3. No way to via a usb connection transmit data to / from the device.

For these reasons I feel that this product will not suit my needs.  I will be returning this device because I need a device that fulfills the following requirements:

1. I have control of the private keys not a third party
2. If something were to happen to my private keys outside of the hardbit device then I can export the keys within the device to my computer in a format that can be loaded into any other bitcoin wallet.
3. USB is used to transmit data to the device to allow for the device to receive private keys generated outside of the device.  If those keys are lost usb is used to send private keys within the device to an application running on my computer such as blockchain.info.  USB is used to receive payment requests and it is used to send sign transactions to a wallet software such as blockchain.info.

If the above is your expectation also then DO NOT PURCHASE THIS PRODUCT.

You are talking about "the private key". Does this mean the device supports only one address?

[MrWDunne]

I just ordered 4 of them .
Payment was accepted and got a mail from them that they will be shipped on Monday .

Will post the unboxing here .

There is not much info on hardbit.cn . I mean no technical data and stuff .
But i hope its open source , or it will be hard to trust them .

Also , open source will help us install some cool wallpapers and BTC receiving and sending sounds , I guess !!

It , looked good , could not resist myself , so ordered 4 of the .
Hope they turn out good .

I paid for 2 plastic Trezors in Sep. last year , have received nothing , and they have asked for 12 more weeks .
And those were 1 BTC each , these are damn cheap with cool display and rugid body .

Though , i wonder , how's its battery life .

At the time 1 BTC was $100

[Peter R]

Here's a related project that I'm working on.  It’s called “sigsafe” and it is an electronic key tag that signs bitcoin transactions over a non-exploitable air gap (NFC).  The device is probably too simple to be considered a hardware wallet; instead, it’s more like a paper wallet that can produce ECDSA signatures.  

I just started a thread in the "Project Development" section: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=610453.0

Here's the white paper: http://www.sigsafe.org

[xoun]

Ok so I received two of my hardbits today.  I would like to direct people to the users manual which is located here:
http://www.hardbit.cn/index.php/downloads

As the instructions show you use this device with software installed on another android device.  How these two devices communicate are made clear in the users manual if you download the link.  All communication is done via QR codes.

The problem I have is this:
1. No way to upload your own private key.  You must use the private key that comes with your wallet.  This means we need to rely on a third party hardbit.cn to assure us that the private key they generated was either destroyed or is kept somewhere securely.
2. No way to download the private key on the wallet without using their proprietary backup system.
3. No way to via a usb connection transmit data to / from the device.

I have been using this wallet for a week, and I had time to explore a bit the device.

As regards your concerns:
1. I agree that it would be much better if there was a way to upload our own private key. However, it seems that the key is generated by the device when you first use it and not pre-loaded. Indeed, I found a way to reset the device (first time it was accidentaly) and each time I got a different bitcoin address.
2. I agree, I don 't like that.
3. I also found a way to connect the device via USB and transmit data to / from the device

Btw, I have also another concern: when I do a payment, I have to wait the transaction to be confirmed and then to sync the device to be able to create another transaction... I don't understand the purpose of this restriction and if a developer is reading the forum I would like to have it deleted.

[Alley]

How does the backup system work?

Need a dev to tell us how the private key is generated.

[Catmoonglow]

Nice warning on their site. It's almost telling us "YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED"

http://www.hardbit.cn/index.php/component/users/?view=login&Itemid=124&return=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5oYXJkYml0LmNuL2luZGV4LnBocC9teS1vcmRlcnM=

[hamza171]

Or you can just use ur smart phone , I mean it's pointless to have another block in you your pocket

[jeffreylin]

Hi Everyone,

i did try to order the hardbit hardware wallet on their website, but when the order was created i m a little confuse on the reference number when i transfer the bitcoin to them.
 my order number is D11 and A2B3.
so what is the reference number i should input when transfer the bitcoin to them?


anyone care to share or help me?


Regards
Jefffrey Lin

[xu2gang1]

Thanks alot for the review.
We had many conversation with customers and potential customers after the product release.
From our angle, HB01 is not a prototype, it's absolutely safe both theoratically and pratically. But we understand that from customer's angle, it IS a prototype, because it can't answer many questions from customers' side.
Then we suddenly found that we've put ourself into a pitfall:a good person have to prove by himself that he is a good guy.
As you know, to make a safe, easy of use, affordable hardware wallet is already a very hard job, self-proving is an additional work and maybe even harder.
But , to be responsible for our customers, and to develop our business, we WILL do this.
One proof we've already done and we feel very lucky is that we chose QR code as the only communicating method:no automatic transfer,all information exchanging visible, information can be analysed by 3rd party software.


Answers for some questions:
1 importing a wallet file to Hardbit .
Importing existing wallets is unsafe from hardware wallet's point of view. Our idea is to provide a once-send-all dedicated online software, for those who's Hardbit is lost or broken. I.e, import the backup wallet file to the software, input a target address(recommends an address created by another Hardbit),input password, and the software sends all the Bitcoin in the backup file to the new address. This software will be available soon.
And , we will disclose the wallet backup file format, so that somebody can make a third-party software (even a wallet software) to handle our backup.

2 USB connection
Any automatic transfer method is unsafe from hardware wallet point of view. Because even we are good guys, we can't guarantee that a super-smart hacker can find way to invade our system and steal the private key.
For playing and testing it, you can connect it to USB. But for real storage of Bitcoin, please keep it away from USB. We've provided charging wire and plug.

BTW, thanks to the Bitcoin price surge, we've lowered the product price to 0.269BTC.

Alan Xu
On behalf of Hardbit team

[Alley]

How do I translate the app to English?

[ozbitcoinexpress]

Just saw this Hardbit on Ebay, I really want one but they are fairly expensive. I dont know if they are worth it just yet when you can buy a smartphone.... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/291155150042

[feverpitch]

Hot damn those look so cool!
Bit pricey right now, but I can definitey see these hitting the mainstream markets. 

[awrelll]

it's a total trash. it's not a offline solution or cold storage. it has wi-fi, bluetooth, 3G. a waste of btc for buyers...

[ozbitcoinexpress]

I had a feeling it would be trash. Its just a re-coded phone. Nuff said.

[zeetubes]

I had a feeling it would be trash. Its just a re-coded phone. Nuff said.

is that a photo of the hardbit wallet or the phone it's originally based on?

[awrelll]

that's the hardbit wallet.
i found a back-door by going to Set time > actual android interface > drag the drawer> you should see settings and all about this device.

[xu2gang1]

We have launched the version 2 of HB01.

As promised, this version has no antenna-physcically no wireless connections, no drivers for wireless commnucations,enables manual input of private key, enables importing of backup wallet files. And we will provide an open source safety-checking app to ensure we have no back door.

please see:http://hardbit.cn/index.php/techonology/8-hardbit/6-hardbit-bitcoin-hardware-wallet-theoratically-absolute-safety-and-0-trust

[Nerazzura]

http://www.dcmagnates.com/physical-bitcoin-wallet-hardbit-launched-in-china-rest-of-the-world-to-follow/


Just heard about this and supposedly launches internationally tomorrow?  Alternative to trezor and bitsafe?

 http://www.hardbit.cn

this sounds good news for us all .. china country that normally reject online payments it receives for bitcoin. they certainly have a strong reason for it. I can not wait to see Hardbit hardware this wallet, because it's the first time. of course there are some drawbacks and improvements needed. however, we can say bitcoin will continue to grow until he would be a future payment

[PalmerLaura]

I would not trust any device that was not open source. How do we know this cannot be hacked? How do we know that this isn't sending our private keys to the firm?

Is it not an offline device? I thought that was kind of the point of a hardware wallet

[franky1]

We have launched the version 2 of HB01.

As promised, this version has no antenna-physcically no wireless connections, no drivers for wireless commnucations,enables manual input of private key, enables importing of backup wallet files. And we will provide an open source safety-checking app to ensure we have no back door.

please see:http://hardbit.cn/index.php/techonology/8-hardbit/6-hardbit-bitcoin-hardware-wallet-theoratically-absolute-safety-and-0-trust

this atleast sounds interesting.

I would not trust any device that was not open source. How do we know this cannot be hacked? How do we know that this isn't sending our private keys to the firm?

Is it not an offline device? I thought that was kind of the point of a hardware wallet

a true hardware wallet will only display a signed tx as its output. meaning no other communications go out. and due to it being a visual output (QR code) you can verify by having your computer read the QR code.. and then your computer transmits the signed TX.

just one warning. do not use any privkeys supplied or generated by hardbit. as they may have the solution to the generation code.
instead import your own fresh paper wallet from an offline source (if our that paranoid)

[kryptz]

I have 40 btc in my hardbit wallet.  I check the blockchain and it shows funds but on my hardbit it shows 0.07, i've tried every type of sync and rescanning last transactions.  I cannot retrieve my money.  IS THIS A SCAM.  Please get back to me, i have my wallet.dat file

[franky1]

I have 40 btc in my hardbit wallet.  I check the blockchain and it shows funds but on my hardbit it shows 0.07, i've tried every type of sync and rescanning last transactions.  I cannot retrieve my money.  IS THIS A SCAM.  Please get back to me, i have my wallet.dat file

you should be able to back up your wallet. then use the privkey elsewhere

[kryptz]

Hi problem sorted, the hard bit team helped me resolve my issue.  for 40btc which i thought I lost, I was very happy, the team were happy to help me and for what its worth they were very patient and professional and I learned it is impossible to lose the bit coins due to how the system works!!!

THANKYOU SO MUCH

[gonnafly]

I will be returning this device because I need a device that fulfills the following requirements:

1) I have control of the private keys not a third party
2) If something were to happen to my private keys outside of the hardbit device then I can export the keys within the device to my computer in a format that can be loaded into any other bitcoin wallet.
3) USB is used to transmit data to the device to allow for the device to receive private keys generated outside of the device. If those keys are lost usb is used to send private keys within the device to an application running on my computer such as blockchain.info. USB is used to receive payment requests and it is used to send sign transactions to a wallet software such as blockchain.info.

If the above is your expectation also then DO NOT PURCHASE THIS PRODUCT.

[wordman267645]

Hardware wallet can provide offline-signing which is the only way to avoid exposing private key to internet. So i think it is more secure than any of other wallets..But off course there's still remain chances for hack if you do not use proper security.

[frankh13]

http://www.dcmagnates.com/physical-bitcoin-wallet-hardbit-launched-in-china-rest-of-the-world-to-follow/


Just heard about this and supposedly launches internationally tomorrow?  Alternative to trezor and bitsafe?

 http://www.hardbit.cn

Good idea, but i think, cards would be better for physical wallet using.