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Author Topic: Hostile to US and UK = Good place for Bitcoin?  (Read 1779 times)
TheMarketAnarchist
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January 19, 2012, 10:04:35 PM
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I recently had a conversation with a client that got me thinking about Bitcoin.  My client is someone who I've done a lot of IT work for and is within a 'fringe' industry that has a very high probability of government attack. He wants to protect his business and was asking about ways he could put his infrastructure outside of the reach of the US and UK governments. At the time, I suggested putting his infrastructure in a privacy friendly country that has a history of respecting peoples rights. But then I started thinking about international relations and how there might be certain circumstances where one of those countries might indeed hand over information to a US/UK request.  In my clients case, that could destroy his business.

So I started thinking about 'hostile' countries. Places like Iran, for example, are considered hostile to the US and UK and probably wouldn't hand over information or hardware after being asked. Demands, threats, and the like wouldn't work either since Iran has a history of not blinking when it comes to such things.  Then, I started thinking about Bitcoin services.

The government could do a lot of damage if they went after places like Dwolla, MtGox, etc. In some cases, they could probably pressure the government to shut down these services or seize their assets. But if the servers were located in a 'hostile' country, that wouldn't be the case.

What do you think? Would the benefits be worth the risk of reaching out to a hostile country to establish some infrastructure?  How would you do it?

Thanks!
TMA

I am in desperate need of a new laptop to further my Bitcoin related development. Anything you can donate is appreciated. Goal is $1,000 USD. Bitcoin address:  1ByQRLuVQHUdJoTDm6UtaFu2KDemjBQaRQ Thank you!
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January 19, 2012, 10:15:48 PM
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Iran is a bad choice right now,
http://bitcoinmedia.com/irans-dire-straits/

However Iran is not signatory to the Berne convention (WIPO treaty) and doesn't have copyright. But yeah there's bigger problems there right now. Economy is about to collapse soon.
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January 19, 2012, 10:18:29 PM
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Seems like the biggest problem would be finding a country that is both unwilling to cooperate with US/UK authorities, but also won't just up and steal your stuff themselves (or accept bribes in exchange for your data, etc.)
TheMarketAnarchist
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January 19, 2012, 10:18:50 PM
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Iran is a bad choice right now,
http://bitcoinmedia.com/irans-dire-straits/

However Iran is not signatory to the Berne convention (WIPO treaty) and doesn't have copyright. But yeah there's bigger problems there right now. Economy is about to collapse soon.

Mostly, I was using Iran as an example. There are many countries that would fit the bill. The key aspect is a 'fuck you west' attitude.

I am in desperate need of a new laptop to further my Bitcoin related development. Anything you can donate is appreciated. Goal is $1,000 USD. Bitcoin address:  1ByQRLuVQHUdJoTDm6UtaFu2KDemjBQaRQ Thank you!
TheMarketAnarchist
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January 19, 2012, 10:19:39 PM
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Seems like the biggest problem would be finding a country that is both unwilling to cooperate with US/UK authorities, but also won't just up and steal your stuff themselves (or accept bribes in exchange for your data, etc.)

Oh you'd definitely have to take measures to protect your data. Whole disk encryption and all that would be an absolute minimum. Hourly backups would be needed too.

I am in desperate need of a new laptop to further my Bitcoin related development. Anything you can donate is appreciated. Goal is $1,000 USD. Bitcoin address:  1ByQRLuVQHUdJoTDm6UtaFu2KDemjBQaRQ Thank you!
PHPAdam
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January 19, 2012, 10:43:09 PM
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Any country that is against America or whatever will hand over data if requested in return for something, their government will be after something small but more likely US with pay off someone lower to "steel" data.
Just look up "offshore banking" its "anonymous" except people get in trouble all the time as someone leaks info that is supposed to be secret.

At the end of the day encryption is a requirement but does not solve the problem, it would have to be distributed data. So seizeing one hard drive even with encryption does not give the full set of data.
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e-ducat.fr


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January 19, 2012, 10:57:54 PM
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Traditionnallly tax heavens like Swxitzerland or Liechtenstein are unwilling to cooperate with ANY foreign govenrments when it comes to protecting their dough.
Not to mention the 30 former British colonies that are in the same business of helping the 1% escape the taxes that hit the 99%.
For them, its not "fuck the west" its "fuck the rest of the world".
So you have plenty of options to choose from.

DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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January 19, 2012, 11:07:14 PM
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Traditionnallly tax heavens like Swxitzerland or Liechtenstein are unwilling to cooperate with ANY foreign govenrments when it comes to protecting their dough.
Not to mention the 30 former British colonies that are in the same business of helping the 1% escape the taxes that hit the 99%.
For them, its not "fuck the west" its "fuck the rest of the world".
So you have plenty of options to choose from.

LOLZ.  The Swiss turned over data to the IRS to help them catch tax evaders.  Pretty big deal.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/01/09/irs-makes-swiss-cheese-of-swiss-banks/

When it comes down to them taking a hit or you taking a hit they will sell you out without blinking.

The US govt sued UBS and offered them a "way out".  Just turn over account data of high net worth Americans and "no harm no foul".

Here are just a few of the indictments the IRS obtained w/ all that "unwilling to cooperate with ANY foreign government" swiss banks.
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=110092,00.html

The swiss banks of today are nothing like the numbered accounts of the 1960s (or your favorite James Bond movie).
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e-ducat.fr


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January 19, 2012, 11:36:12 PM
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You are right: things are changing because the public image of the banks is deteriorating rapidly with the financial crisis and the global awareness of their wrongdoings.
However the US must work hard and with all their clout to obtain disclosure  from the swiss banks. The swiss are still showing the middle finger to their neighbouring countries to this date regarding tax evasion.

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January 20, 2012, 12:12:38 AM
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Does anyone know what happened to HavenCo, hosted on Sealand? That would be perfect for this. Maybe renewed interest would bring it back to life.

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January 20, 2012, 01:30:42 AM
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Does anyone know what happened to HavenCo, hosted on Sealand? That would be perfect for this. Maybe renewed interest would bring it back to life.

This: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/25/havenco/

Quote
Since last year, the principality has been put up for sale.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-7-2000/headlines---surf-of-a-nation
EhVedadoOAnonimato
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January 20, 2012, 10:08:49 AM
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Seems like the biggest problem would be finding a country that is both unwilling to cooperate with US/UK authorities, but also won't just up and steal your stuff themselves (or accept bribes in exchange for your data, etc.)

Oh you'd definitely have to take measures to protect your data. Whole disk encryption and all that would be an absolute minimum. Hourly backups would be needed too.

It's not only the data you must protect. You must protect yourself.
If your business might attract governmental attacks, either store your hole content on a privacy-oriented host, payable in bitcoins, and access it only through Tor, or go full hidden mode like Silk Road (which I'd guess is also stored in a remote server somewhere, with no direct logs linking to the administrator).

(Would you mind telling what service exactly does "your client" provide? I'm curious now...Smiley)

Best of luck.
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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January 20, 2012, 04:58:33 PM
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Put it on a boat in international waters with a sat link.  Smiley
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January 21, 2012, 02:48:46 AM
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Distributed network... Don't keep your data/app in one, two or three locations... Keep it everywhere! And encrypted!

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