The price has bounced right back

[legitnick]

Still a bit touchy about getting zhoutonged the other day?

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[RogerR]

mmhm. you advise other people to stay out, but you short... manipulation goes both ways.

Expressing your opinion in a speculation forum can hardly be considered manipulation. And it is in no way nearly as manipulative as those on and off bid-walls - in fact, me disclosing my position probably makes me more honest and non-manipulative than most people around. Besides, telling people to stay out is exactly that. I could also suggest them to think about joining me in my shorts anywhere near $6 and above if they are willing to take the risk of being Zhoutonged at a short-term spike-up if that sounds more preferable to you? Either way, with me advising them to stay out I ultimately believe in a lack of substantial upward buying pressure which will inevitably make prices go South again - hence my short position. So no worries, I got my story and leverage straight.

...

The difference between you and me is that I don't tag along "people" who believe a post count is a valid indication of market experience and prediction accuracy. Looking at the "arguments" you provided I choose to just drastically maintain my position. And believe me when I say that I have better and more important things to do than to wrap my head around what you think would be most appropriate behavior for anyone without a 500+ post count or not - apart from the initial lulz of exposing your so obviously flawed paradigms.

And the greatest thing about financial markets is that I don't have to convince you or anyone of my opinion, I can just let my money do the talking... so in fact, my particular advice to you would be - less talk, more injections.

And as for S03052... well, if he charges for his opinion, he certainly must be a true genius, eh? There is always a 3rd wave - it will go up to $3 for sure! Cheers.

[bittenbob]

So how are those shorts holding out for you? I love how you thought you were so smart and that I couldn't possibly know what I was talking about. Doesn't look like a whole lot of dropping to me. In fact, we are up from this morning.

[ineededausername]

mmhm. you advise other people to stay out, but you short... manipulation goes both ways.

Expressing your opinion in a speculation forum can hardly be considered manipulation. And it is in no way nearly as manipulative as those on and off bid-walls - in fact, me disclosing my position probably makes me more honest and non-manipulative than most people around. Besides, telling people to stay out is exactly that. I could also suggest them to think about joining me in my shorts anywhere near $6 and above if they are willing to take the risk of being Zhoutonged at a short-term spike-up if that sounds more preferable to you? Either way, with me advising them to stay out I ultimately believe in a lack of substantial upward buying pressure which will inevitably make prices go South again - hence my short position. So no worries, I got my story and leverage straight.

No, you misunderstood me.  You said
(1) The market was obviously manipulated
(2) No one should be in the market because nobody can predict the actions of a Manipulator holding it at artificial prices
(3) You shorted

However, what if the Manipulator goes the other way and pushes the price up? You're screwed.

[RogerR]

I don't trust those 50k walls at all... they are obviously the same ones that disappeared at 6.4 and 6.6 2-3 days ago when we were at 7.19 with practically nothing to go to 9. Without them, there wouldn't be any real support above 5.20/40.

You fools are being played again.

Look how cool you are trying to insult me. The number of posts means I have probably been in the community longer and have more experience than you in this market. You are clearly trading with leverage since you are shorting which means you could be liquidated and end up with zero (look at thread of the year and the impact I had on that). In fact with your smug attitude and condescending tone I now wish this upon you. I do not trade with leverage so I will never have 0.

As for having to buy through them some are real but many are pulled as they realize they are going to sell at a lower price than they can. They can't always be pulled out in time when a whole bunch of shorts get zhoutonged. I have seen large ask walls and bid walls taken down so the depth charts have to be viewed some degree of skepticism on both sides. I even provided examples of moving walls you could have watched but apparently you chose to ignore that fact.

That being said I expect a test at 5.50 again in the near future but think we will be going up as well. S03052 even said he believes we are entering Wave III which means that the price rise can resume. He charges for his analysis but from what I have heard from those who pay it is usually very accurate.

So how are those shorts holding out for you? I love how you thought you were so smart and that I couldn't possibly know what I was talking about. Doesn't look like a whole lot of dropping to me. In fact, we are up from this morning.

How does my condescending tone ring to you right now? But at least you still believe in your "wisdom of post count" theory or S03052's 3rd Wave theorem for which people pay solid money for... Karma is a bitch.

Don't say the indications were not there and don't say I didn't warn you guys - you've been stripped out of your money just like I was. Trading in such obviously manipulated markets is dangerous to plain dumb at best.  One person with malicious intentions (PWMI, formerly known as "the manipulator") is not only no ground for a rally, it's a counter-argument for any serious investors - without which bitcoin value will remain below $10 for a loong time. Some people have to learn it the hard way.

Btw - did it ever occur to anyone of you guys that people have to refill their USD deposits even in times of inflation to make the value of bitcoin increase with inflation and stable enough to cover any bigger dump? Anyone of you believe that people will put more money into bitcoins when they have to pay more for food and housing? Egh.

[chsados]

Anyone of you believe that people will put more money into bitcoins when they have to pay more for food and housing? Egh.

i think the hope is one day you could pay BTC for food and housing.....

[RogerR]

Anyone of you believe that people will put more money into bitcoins when they have to pay more for food and housing? Egh.

i think the hope is one day you could pay BTC for food and housing.....

So let me get this straight. You think anyone wants to buy a house with a commodity that is known for price volatility, market manipulation and a few thousand users at best? It's not done with a few BTC-paid-for sold items, you either have to have a constant inflow of USD or a constant inflow of items. The latter will only be happening IF the fiat currencies are going to bust and the general public will revert to trading with non-Government issued currencies with bitcoin first becoming a tool of FX and then, eventually, the tool of exchange itself. Then again... in such a doomsday scenario - who is assuring the validity of the blockchains again?

Frankly speaking, I neither see that happening nor enough confidence into bitcoins for them to make it big on its own. My hopes were high and my heart bleeds, but to me it becomes more and more obvious now that this experiment has failed, and once market valuation drops below costs of network operation it will collapse. And I say this without holding any grudge against anyone of you guys.

This being said, I wish you all Good luck. Maybe there is a small chance that bitcoins are able to maintain some value by serving as means of wealth transaction... but yeah, the rest is a bubble built on dreams rather unfit for reality.

[Sargasm]

You could buy a house with gold... who's value is many many times its intrinsic value as a manufacturing material or even a commodity.  Speculation and a large, fairly liquid market has made it what it is.

[RogerR]

You could buy a house with gold... who's value is many many times its intrinsic value as a manufacturing material or even a commodity.  Speculation and a large, fairly liquid market has made it what it is.

This is an issue of adaptation. The gold market is the gold market because it has both enough buyers willing to stabilize prices, and not enough big sellers (as the central banks need gold as means to put value to their own little fiat currencies) to destroy faith in the maintenance of its wealth. Anyone selling a house for gold either (A) intended to acquire gold in the first place to begin with, or (B) has enough faith into it that the gold will maintain its value long enough for him/her to exchange it back into fiat with no questions asked where his or her gold came from.

Without solid foundation and wide-spread adaptation/circulation, bitcoin has neither one of these attributes. It is a dream that at least I have stopped believing into.

[Sargasm]

I don't think it's realistic in any sensible time frame.  On a long enough time horizon... I think it could happen.

Basically like you said, has to do with the value of the commodity... eventually BTC may outpace most/all fiat currencies simply by way of a limit on production.

Who knows really.  It's all conjecture until the future comes.