David Cameron: Taxes will rise unless we can raid bank accounts

[5flags]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10819885/David-Cameron-Taxes-will-rise-unless-we-can-raid-bank-accounts.html

It's like Cyprus, only with a British accent.

[TrailingComet]

Matter of time till we see wealth seizures in Western Europe
The leverage is just unsustainable

[5flags]

Matter of time till we see wealth seizures in Western Europe
The leverage is just unsustainable

Yup. The databases are being populated, they know where the wealth is. If it's a choice between seizing wealth and losing power, you can bet your Bitcoin-owning ass they will be seizing wealth.

[bryant.coleman]

My advice to the British: Convert all your hard cash to Bitcoins and move to some sane country (i.e not to France). At the moment, the most viable options in the Europe are Russia, Belarus, Switzerland and Andorra. If you own any real estate, don't think that you are untouchable. They will take away our bullion and real estate also.

[Lethn]

Taxes will go up regardless of of how many bank accounts David Cameron raids, capital flight will begin once the government decides it can take everything people own and Bitcoin, Gold, Silver will all go through the roof as well as other commodities.

[bryant.coleman]

Taxes will go up regardless of of how many bank accounts David Cameron raids, capital flight will begin once the government decides it can take everything people own and Bitcoin, Gold, Silver will all go through the roof as well as other commodities.

You are forgetting that if the government can steal our cash stored in the savings accounts, then nothing prevents them from stealing our gold and bullion also, which is stored in the bank lockers. The only thing which they can't steal is... off course Bitcoins.

[DooMAD]

This government are truly sickening.  They haven't got a single policy that isn't designed to force debt onto everyone, extract money from the people who have the least, sell off public assets (that don't belong to them) to their wealthy friends, or line their own pockets.  Disgusting, venomous, self-serving parasites.  

[cryptasm]

Dodgy Dave can go fuck himself, guaranteed none of his tax-evading toff mates will have their accounts raided. We need to vote this shower of shit out at the next election

[Lethn]

If you're going to vote somebody out vote for a minor candidate or party that doesn't go along with mainstream politics, don't just do this thing of switching sides to either Lib Dem or Labour, but then again, if you're on this forum chances are you're intelligent enough to at least realise these main parties are all the same.

Oh and all these problems people cry about in the UK with tax issues could easily be solved if they just made a simple flat tax rate, but good luck getting politicians to listen to that because it would make too much sense!

[countryfree]

My advice to the British: Convert all your hard cash to Bitcoins and move to some sane country (i.e not to France). At the moment, the most viable options in the Europe are Russia, Belarus, Switzerland and Andorra. If you own any real estate, don't think that you are untouchable. They will take away our bullion and real estate also.

Russia? I think the richest Russians have moved to the U.K. or Switzerland. Germany, Austria look safer to me. The Netherlands are good, too.

[practicaldreamer]

Dodgy Dave can go fuck himself, guaranteed none of his tax-evading toff mates will have their accounts raided.

Absolutely - I'll tell you what gets my goat, is when the likes of Gary Barlow can scam millions out of the Inland Revenue (at a time, it has to be said, when the country sorely needs the tax revenue) and he gets nothing more than a gentle slap on the wrist and a polite request to pay up by the taxman.
  Whereas if I refuse to pay my TV tax (and ensuing fine) to pay the wages of twats like Jeremy Clarkson his £1m salary I'm gonna end up serving time in prison.



 

We need to vote this shower of shit out at the next election

We do yes - but who is worth voting for ?

By voting we are only being complicit in the fraud (that is today "first past the post" parliamentary democracy in the UK) that is being perpetrated upon us.

[woogie]

Taxes will go up regardless of of how many bank accounts David Cameron raids, capital flight will begin once the government decides it can take everything people own and Bitcoin, Gold, Silver will all go through the roof as well as other commodities.

You are forgetting that if the government can steal our cash stored in the savings accounts, then nothing prevents them from stealing our gold and bullion also, which is stored in the bank lockers. The only thing which they can't steal is... off course Bitcoins.

And that is the main reason why we shouldn't let governments legiferate bitcoin.

[Spendulus]

Taxes will go up regardless of of how many bank accounts David Cameron raids, capital flight will begin once the government decides it can take everything people own and Bitcoin, Gold, Silver will all go through the roof as well as other commodities.

You are forgetting that if the government can steal our cash stored in the savings accounts, then nothing prevents them from stealing our gold and bullion also, which is stored in the bank lockers. The only thing which they can't steal is... off course Bitcoins.

And that is the main reason why we shouldn't let governments legiferate bitcoin.

Is that legitimate+obliterate?

[DooMAD]

We need to vote this shower of shit out at the next election.

We do yes - but who is worth voting for ?

Vote Labour.

Yes, they're not perfect, but no-one is and furthermore no-one can be. Pick any one of the ten-a-penny idealistic small parties in the country - if they ever wanted to gain enough supporters to run the country (and they don't), they would have to compromise and U-turn every bit as much as the big parties at the top. If you still think your 'pure' ballot would be spoiled by ever voting for a party that represents anything but 100% of your opinions and no-one else's, consider this: politicians LOVE low turnouts. Low turnouts mean that they can spend more and more of their resources courting a handful of swing voters in the centre who decide the election.

The Blairite/Thatcherite wing of the Labour party are in decline for the first time in 20 years. Ed Milliband may be a piss-poor presenter, but his policies are solid, with a consistent theme of forcing markets to work for ordinary people. The Labour party's core values have always been about standing up for ordinary working people - of course they've made mistakes, but that has to be preferable to the Tories, whose explicit goal is to help the wealthy maintain their wealth and enrich themselves further.

The Tory party started out as a broad coalition opposing voting rights for non-landowners and fighting for more tax money to go to the nobility, but now they can disguise their goals as offering people "freedom from government" and "lower taxes", not mentioning the fact that despite their best efforts, the government still broadly protects workers from the whims of the rich, who also still pay the most tax. Labour was founded by working people and even today its (admittedly posh, policy-wonk) leaders are elected by working people. Labour fought for and won the majority of workers' rights, the NHS, free education, social housing, the minimum wage, racial, sexual and religious equality, all of which were opposed tooth and nail by the Tories.

Even if it's just a least-worst calculation, please vote. If your second or third-worst party is going to get in anyway, they won't get any more power from your vote. On the other hand, if your vote makes the difference then you've prevented the worst party from getting in and bought a small piece of negotiating power to try to change the party that now wants to keep your vote.

Absolutely - I'll tell you what gets my goat, is when the likes of Gary Barlow can scam millions out of the Inland Revenue (at a time, it has to be said, when the country sorely needs the tax revenue) and he gets nothing more than a gentle slap on the wrist and a polite request to pay up by the taxman.
Whereas if I refuse to pay my TV tax (and ensuing fine) to pay the wages of twats like Jeremy Clarkson his £1m salary I'm gonna end up serving time in prison.

This problem, like it or not, can only be solved internationally. If the UK unilaterally forces the thieving bastards to pay all the tax they owe, on time, no exceptions, then the majority will move and we lose the tax that they do pay, while the US or Switzerland gets it instead. The only real solution is an international treaty between the EU, US, Aus etc. promising to all crack down at the same time, meaning that the rich can either pay up or move to Dubai where it's illegal to drink alcohol and fornicate, or Beijing where they can be arrested for criticising the government. No single UK government can make this happen on their own, but you can bet that Ed Milliband would if he could. Would the Tories?

I can see you've put quite a bit of thought into this, but the fact remains that even if Labour are now moving away from Blairite/Thatcherite policies (and I'm yet to be wholly convinced they are) they're still in the same neo-liberal neighbourhood as the other parties in terms of economic policy.  They might not be as extreme in their views as the tories (or that joke of a party, ukip), but they're still heading in the same direction, albeit more slowly.  Under Labour, there will still be privatisation of the NHS, there will still be a push for forcing people into zero hour contract "jobs" to manipulate unemployment figures while boosting corporate profits and undermining the minimum wage.  There will still be an intentional and deliberate transfer of wealth from poorest to richest.  I refuse to vote for that.



This shows where the parties stand.  You'll notice all but one are in the same ballpark.  I don't care if everyone else wants to vote for a party that's going to get in or not.  I'm sticking with my principles and voting for the party pulling in the opposite direction to the cliff this country is heading towards.

[5flags]

I'd like to know what policies justify the Green Party's position.

Not a snarky reply, genuinely interested.

[DooMAD]

I'd like to know what policies justify the Green Party's position.

Not a snarky reply, genuinely interested.

They've got some fairly radical policies in stark contrast to the other parties.  Things like re-nationalising the trains which no other party is proposing.  Not just stopping NHS privatisation, but also reversing some of the public service sell offs.  Scrapping Tuition fees.  Placing a cap on bankers’ bonuses.  Stuff like that.

There's a "mini-manifesto" here if you wanted to check it out:  http://issuu.com/lifework/docs/minimaniissuu?e=7496317/7612527

[DooMAD]

Miliband has committed to harsh restrictions on zero-hours contracts, including the automatic right to a full-time contract after 6 months. He has also pledged to provide state-funded work for the long-term unemployed, and end the ridiculous "workfare" scheme rewarding companies for not hiring He has pledged more thorough investigation and prosecution of employers not paying the minimum wage. He has promised controls on the rental and energy markets to reduce the cost of living for average people.

He hasn't pledged to roll back any of the privatisations in the NHS introduced by Blair, but he certainly doesn't want any more, and he will not move towards ending the universal healthcare model - not even the Tories would dare to do that with public opinion the way it is, their policy is to intentionally degrade the quality of service in the NHS until people stop liking it so much!

Under a Labour government there will still be inequality and injustice, yes. Flow of wealth from the poor to the rich is the natural state of being for capitalism (and humanity) but under a Labour government it will not be intentional or deliberate, and they will work to stem the flow - they have pledged to reintroduce the 50% rate of tax, among other measures - but they must make compromises in order to be elected, which is something the Green party has no ambition or ability to do.

This is the first chance of a government of truly decent people and policy for a very long time.

For what it's worth, I'd rather see Labour in than the current lot and maybe their actions will convince me to soften my stance if they get in and do a good job this time around.  It sounds like a promising start, but compromise still sounds less tempting than slamming on the brakes and pulling a massive u-turn from our current route.  Maybe a Labour/Green coalition could work?  Sadly we've still got a while to go before the general election either way.  

Interestingly, this is a precise example of why we should have introduced AV - it allows people to vote for their principles and still stop The Bastards™ from getting in. Under that system, I would vote 1. Green, 2. Labour, 3. LD.

The silver lining of UKIP's rise in popularity for me is the fact that a significant proportion of the Tories who campaigned against AV for short-term gain are now kicking themselves.

We agree completely on that part, then.  I still sometimes wonder how the public were gullible enough to fall for the ridiculous fear campaign attached to the "no" lobby on the AV referendum.  But then I see the same thing with both the tories and ukippers banging on about all the "scary foreigners coming to get us and steal our livelihoods".  And the public are falling for it yet again.  Pity that people are so easily manipulated.

[practicaldreamer]

We need to vote this shower of shit out at the next election.

We do yes - but who is worth voting for ?

Vote Labour.

I've been a Labour man all my life - so I know where you are coming from. Up until relatively recently I could have written the exact same things as you - imploring people to vote etc - and I agree with a lot of what you posted above.

Its a big subject this, so I'm gonna keep it brief (not least because I've been at work all day and I'm knackered).

The main points I'd like to make are :-

    1) the FPP electoral system isn't fit for purpose (i.e..representative Govt.) - and the 2 big parties have no will to alter it as they are the ones who benefit from it. Some poor deluded souls voted for the Lib Dems in the last election purely on the strength of their PR ticket - and look how that turned out.

     2) the turning point for Labour was in the 1980's - at which point they chose to   a) drop Clause 4 from their constitution    and  b) stand by as Thatcher eroded Union power (anti union legislation that the Labour Party/Govt. have never repealed BTW) and the NUM waged the most politically/economically significant battle in modern British history - without any backing from Neil Kinnock and the Labour Party

      3) Blair and Iraq (not in my name)

      4) Mandelson and his privatisation (plans) of Royal Mail

       5) the way that the "Iron Chancellor" courted the City and the very people that caused the 2008 devastating economic crash - of course, he had no choice but to court them, because the Labour Govt. (in the absence of Clause 4) are only trying to manage capitalism better than the capitalists

       6) the way that todays career Labour politicians (ie. they've never had a proper job) are drawn from the same narrow Oxbridge academic elite background as their Tory counterparts. Its a long long way from Nye Bevan. This isn't what the Labour Party is supposed to be about - its supposed to be the party of the people. Fuck passing exams - how about a bit of nouse and life experience ?

      7) the main parties may or may not prefer low turnouts (for their own self serving reasons) - but their legitimacy/mandate is seriously eroded with a low turnout. And to my mind, they are illegitimate in their representation of the interests of the people of the United Kingdom. The only reason people vote currently in the numbers that they do is that they hope against hope/want to believe that it will make a blind bit of a difference. Which it patently doesn't.



    
In short, the Labour Party has compromised so much I don't know who they are anymore. Do they ?

I still hope they get in over the Tories/Lib Dems. - I'm sentimental like that  

But I won't be voting for them - been there, done that.

[bryant.coleman]

Within less than 2 weeks, the European election results will be announced. In UK, the UKIP is expected to perform extremely well. Also, the far-right and the far-left are expected to improve on their numbers all over the EU. If the election results are extremely disappointing for Cameron's party, I don't think that he will have the balls to steal money out of bank accounts.

[practicaldreamer]

6) the way that today's career Labour politicians (i.e. they've never had a proper job) are drawn from the same narrow Oxbridge academic elite background as their Tory counterparts. Its a long long way from Nye Bevan. This isn't what the Labour Party is supposed to be about - its supposed to be the party of the people. Fuck passing exams - how about a bit of nouse and life experience ?

To be honest, I want government ministers to be good at governance. Direct experience of the lives of average people is an excellent teacher of empathy and compassion, but it takes more than that to be a good leader. I want my politicians to have a good understanding of law, economics, administration and diplomacy - best learned by university study followed by as much experience as a junior minister or shadow as possible. I also want them to be able to win elections, to be charismatic and good at rhetoric. Clement Attlee was part of the elite - he was the son of a solicitor, went to Oxford before training to become a lawyer and spent a few years working for various political/economist types before going into politics himself. He never experienced real economic hardship personally, but became one of the greatest prime ministers in history, and did more to alleviate poverty than any British politician since.

A half of the shadow cabinet are public school/Oxbridge - it doesn't bode well for a representative democratic Govt. that its leaders are drawn from such a narrow and privileged elite.

The main requisites of being a good politician are the same as those required to be a good man :- a)intelligence  b)courage   and c) a sense of morality.  
   Unfortunately, none of these three things can be acquired from a University education. It is the illusion that they can that has led us into the sorry situation that we find ourselves in today.

I share your disillusionment in a lot of ways, but I really believe Ed Miliband represents a change.

I hope you are right.