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Author Topic: Would u pay in bitcoin?  (Read 8675 times)
Harley997
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June 21, 2014, 04:49:31 PM
 #61

Case in point:
Sold something yesterday and offered the buyer the choice of either:
A) $400 by PayPal (sent as gift so no fees to me)
B) $360 worth of bitcoin

They did NOT already own bitcoin.

Guess which they chose?
That is a 10% difference. Is that what PayPal charges?

If they choose bitcoin, how much did the pay to get 360$ worth of bitcoin?


They would only need to pay $360 to get $360 worth of bitcoin. It may take some time to get KYC verified with an exchange but that is all they would need to pay

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JorgeStolfi
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June 21, 2014, 06:38:18 PM
 #62

If they choose bitcoin, how much did the pay to get 360$ worth of bitcoin?
They would only need to pay $360 to get $360 worth of bitcoin. It may take some time to get KYC verified with an exchange but that is all they would need to pay
If they buy at an exchange, they will have to pay the exchange trading fee.  To get the money to the exchange, they will have to pay some bank transfer or credit card fee.  Realistically, how much would they have to pay, in all, to use that bitcoin payment option?

Please note again, that the question is about customers who do not own the bitcoins yet.


Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
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June 21, 2014, 08:26:34 PM
 #63

Case in point:
Sold something yesterday and offered the buyer the choice of either:
A) $400 by PayPal (sent as gift so no fees to me)
B) $360 worth of bitcoin

They did NOT already own bitcoin.

Guess which they chose?
That is a 10% difference. Is that what PayPal charges?

If they choose bitcoin, how much did the pay to get 360$ worth of bitcoin?


They would only need to pay $360 to get $360 worth of bitcoin. It may take some time to get KYC verified with an exchange but that is all they would need to pay

They chose paypal.

So, the inconvenience (and expense - might have cost them $7 in exchange fees) of acquiring the bitcoin was not worth $40 to this buyer. A tech-savvy buyer, based in San Francisco.

It's anecdotal, but I think THIS is exactly what bitcoin needs to overcome to hit mainstream use. It's got to be easier for consumers to acquire/pay using bitcoin. The incentive has to outweigh the perceived hassle.






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June 21, 2014, 09:49:47 PM
 #64

They chose paypal.

So, the inconvenience (and expense - might have cost them $7 in exchange fees) of acquiring the bitcoin was not worth $40 to this buyer. A tech-savvy buyer, based in San Francisco.

It's anecdotal, but I think THIS is exactly what bitcoin needs to overcome to hit mainstream use. It's got to be easier for consumers to acquire/pay using bitcoin. The incentive has to outweigh the perceived hassle.
Indeed.

I suppose he would pay for the coins at the exchange with Paypal or with his credit card, so  one should add the fees for that to the $7.  And then there may be a delay before the money is available for trading.  And another delay for moving the coins from the exchange to BitPay or to you.

Volatility is another big obstacle.  If you post the bitcoin price as a fixed amount of BTC, you run the risk of the USD/BTC rate going down, in which case you would lose money.  (Last Friday it dropped 8% in a couple of hours, for example.)  A smart customer or competitor may wait for the rate to drop, and then buy lots of merchandise from you at below-market price.

Conversely, the customer runs the risk of the rate going up while he is buying the bitcoins.  To guard aganst that possibility, he has to send perhaps 5-10% more money to the exchange than he would need at the current rate.  If the rate does go up that much, he will end up paying more via bitcoin than via Paypal.  If the rate does not go ub by that much, or goes down, he will be left with a few extra dollars at the exchange, or a few extra BTC; which he must retrieve and spend elsewhere, otherwise he would lose money all the same.

If you post the bitcoin price as "the BTC equivalent of 360$", you merely push some(but not all) of your risk to the client.

I gather that Coinbase and Paypal have some mechanisms to alleviate some of these risks and hassles. I don't know the details, but even if they offer a fixed USD/BTC rate for the day, it only reduces the volatility risks, it does not eliminate it.

At this point, bitcoin payments options are advantageous only for people who already own a pile of BTC and want to cash on some of it to buy stuff.  Those options let them skip a couple of steps in that process.

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June 21, 2014, 10:15:13 PM
 #65

I pay in bitcoin all the time, but that's because I am a trader, and spending in bitcoin is the principle way that I cash out my gains. If I weren't a trader, would I buy BTC to spend? No. But I might buy BTC to invest and spend down the road, if I were that type of investor.

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June 21, 2014, 10:45:49 PM
 #66

Would bitcoin atm,'s help with this problem of small and instant payments in bitcoin for goods do u think?

Bitcoin atm often ask a higher price than the market price. For example in my town the atm charges 480 euro for a bitcoin while kraken asked 438 at the same time. That's a 10% markup or so.

Only if the profit is really big (either a single large transaction, or the prospect of repeated small transactions) or you already considered bitcoin before is it likely for someone to convert to bitcoin.

Still I know several people who are looking into bitcoin but are waiting for it to become more accepted by companies before they want to invest in it. So companies promoting and encouraging bitcoin may not individually stimulate someone to directly buy bitcoins just to spend them right away, but eventually the communed effort will.

It's like asking if people would buy a gift card just to spend it right away. People buy gift cards but spend it later. And usually they give it to a friend.
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June 21, 2014, 10:52:06 PM
 #67

It seems that coinbase finally implemented a feature that lets you automatically buy back the coins you spend.

I think this is something that a lot of people were waiting for. This way they can spend their bitcoins and not worry about it costing them more over time.

Having it automatically buy coins back for you is much more convenient than having to do so yourself everytime you buy something.

Such a great feature and this is a sign that bitcoin will have a long time increasing its price..

Internet of things.
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June 23, 2014, 05:34:00 AM
 #68

It seems that coinbase finally implemented a feature that lets you automatically buy back the coins you spend.

I think this is something that a lot of people were waiting for. This way they can spend their bitcoins and not worry about it costing them more over time.

Having it automatically buy coins back for you is much more convenient than having to do so yourself everytime you buy something.

Such a great feature and this is a sign that bitcoin will have a long time increasing its price..
It is great that we can now use bitcoin while keeping money in the bitcoin economy

.

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June 23, 2014, 06:04:17 PM
 #69

I believe most people would. Especially if the discount outweighed your belief of an immediate rise in BTC prices.

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June 23, 2014, 07:11:06 PM
 #70

i love paying in bitcoin, but that's mainly because my coins are pure profit at this point. so i love being able to spend with ease without dipping into my bank account.
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June 23, 2014, 08:32:31 PM
 #71


Being on a bitcoin forum it's not surprising, but I actually go out of my way to use merchants that accept bitcoin. This probably costs me more in time and money, but I have philosophical reasons for doing so.

That being said, I think most people I know would find switching to bitcoin for everyday purchases cumbersome at the moment. I believe as the momentum of this technology continues it will lead to higher accessibility and ease of use,  and then adoption will increase as people/merchants notice the benefits.




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ShakyhandsBTCer
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June 24, 2014, 03:06:53 AM
 #72

Case in point:
Sold something yesterday and offered the buyer the choice of either:
A) $400 by PayPal (sent as gift so no fees to me)
B) $360 worth of bitcoin

They did NOT already own bitcoin.

Guess which they chose?
That is a 10% difference. Is that what PayPal charges?

If they choose bitcoin, how much did the pay to get 360$ worth of bitcoin?


They would only need to pay $360 to get $360 worth of bitcoin. It may take some time to get KYC verified with an exchange but that is all they would need to pay

They chose paypal.

So, the inconvenience (and expense - might have cost them $7 in exchange fees) of acquiring the bitcoin was not worth $40 to this buyer. A tech-savvy buyer, based in San Francisco.

It's anecdotal, but I think THIS is exactly what bitcoin needs to overcome to hit mainstream use. It's got to be easier for consumers to acquire/pay using bitcoin. The incentive has to outweigh the perceived hassle.

The inconvenience would only be something that would happen one time. If a customer were to use this merchant multiple times then they could receive this discount multiple times when dealing with the inconvenience only one time.

Exchanges do not generally charge that much in exchange fees. A $7 fee for a $360 purchase would be something that localbitcoins might charge, but you would not have to deal with the inconvenience. BTC-e for example only charges 0.2% trading fee for example.
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June 24, 2014, 03:42:41 AM
 #73

The inconvenience would only be something that would happen one time. If a customer were to use this merchant multiple times then they could receive this discount multiple times when dealing with the inconvenience only one time.

Exchanges do not generally charge that much in exchange fees. A $7 fee for a $360 purchase would be something that localbitcoins might charge, but you would not have to deal with the inconvenience. BTC-e for example only charges 0.2% trading fee for example.
But the customer still has to transfer all the dollars of the multiple purchases to the exchange (or BitPay, Coinbase, etc.) in order to buy the bitcoins.  So the route dollars-->bitcoins-->merchandise cannot incur in less fees than dollars-->merchandise.

Besides, the BTC price is still not rising, and may as well fall.  At this time, buying bitcoin is not a sensible medium-term investment.  That includes buying a bunch of bitcoin now in order to make multiple purchases over the next weeks or months. 

At this time, paying with bitcoin only makes sense if one already has bitcoins that were mined or bought for investment, and has decided to sell them.  If the merchant actually accepts bitcoin, the route bitcoin-->merchandise would incur in less fees than bitcoin-->dollars-->merchandise.  However, most bitcoin payment processors like Bitpay actually do the latter, so the dollar transmission fees must be paid by someone sometime.

Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
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June 25, 2014, 01:37:42 AM
 #74

The inconvenience would only be something that would happen one time. If a customer were to use this merchant multiple times then they could receive this discount multiple times when dealing with the inconvenience only one time.

Exchanges do not generally charge that much in exchange fees. A $7 fee for a $360 purchase would be something that localbitcoins might charge, but you would not have to deal with the inconvenience. BTC-e for example only charges 0.2% trading fee for example.
But the customer still has to transfer all the dollars of the multiple purchases to the exchange (or BitPay, Coinbase, etc.) in order to buy the bitcoins.  So the route dollars-->bitcoins-->merchandise cannot incur in less fees than dollars-->merchandise.

Besides, the BTC price is still not rising, and may as well fall.  At this time, buying bitcoin is not a sensible medium-term investment.  That includes buying a bunch of bitcoin now in order to make multiple purchases over the next weeks or months. 

At this time, paying with bitcoin only makes sense if one already has bitcoins that were mined or bought for investment, and has decided to sell them.  If the merchant actually accepts bitcoin, the route bitcoin-->merchandise would incur in less fees than bitcoin-->dollars-->merchandise.  However, most bitcoin payment processors like Bitpay actually do the latter, so the dollar transmission fees must be paid by someone sometime.

The customer could simply go through the KYC of getting verified for instant buys of BTC on coinbase (hassle but no money).
The customer could then buy exact amount of BTC needed, send BTC to merchant (less the discount) receive the merchandise.

The price of BTC may rise or fall as it is nothing more then speculation to say it will go in a specific direction over a certain time period.
Harley997
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June 25, 2014, 01:38:46 AM
 #75


Being on a bitcoin forum it's not surprising, but I actually go out of my way to use merchants that accept bitcoin. This probably costs me more in time and money, but I have philosophical reasons for doing so.

That being said, I think most people I know would find switching to bitcoin for everyday purchases cumbersome at the moment. I believe as the momentum of this technology continues it will lead to higher accessibility and ease of use,  and then adoption will increase as people/merchants notice the benefits.

this is a huge incentive for new merchants to start to accept bitcoin.

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June 25, 2014, 01:46:36 AM
 #76

depend if the item sale limited edition maybe i can use my real money to buy
because if use bitcoin i must create my walet and buy from exchange and it cost much time just concerned after my bitcoin process finish the Item has sold out

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June 25, 2014, 01:50:38 AM
 #77

But the customer still has to transfer all the dollars of the multiple purchases to the exchange (or BitPay, Coinbase, etc.) in order to buy the bitcoins.  So the route dollars-->bitcoins-->merchandise cannot incur in less fees than dollars-->merchandise.

Besides, the BTC price is still not rising, and may as well fall.  At this time, buying bitcoin is not a sensible medium-term investment.  That includes buying a bunch of bitcoin now in order to make multiple purchases over the next weeks or months. 

At this time, paying with bitcoin only makes sense if one already has bitcoins that were mined or bought for investment, and has decided to sell them.  If the merchant actually accepts bitcoin, the route bitcoin-->merchandise would incur in less fees than bitcoin-->dollars-->merchandise.  However, most bitcoin payment processors like Bitpay actually do the latter, so the dollar transmission fees must be paid by someone sometime.

The customer could simply go through the KYC of getting verified for instant buys of BTC on coinbase (hassle but no money).
The customer could then buy exact amount of BTC needed, send BTC to merchant (less the discount) receive the merchandise.
But see the bolded sentence above.  In order to buy the BTC one has to send dollars to Coinbase.  How could that route be cheaper than sending  those dollars directly to the merchant?

The price of BTC may rise or fall as it is nothing more then speculation to say it will go in a specific direction over a certain time period.
The BTC price just fell 10$ (from ~586$ to ~576$) over the last few hours.  Who is going to absorb that volatility? (Whover does it will want some extra margin to compensate the risk.)

Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
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June 25, 2014, 03:58:44 AM
 #78

But the customer still has to transfer all the dollars of the multiple purchases to the exchange (or BitPay, Coinbase, etc.) in order to buy the bitcoins.  So the route dollars-->bitcoins-->merchandise cannot incur in less fees than dollars-->merchandise.

Besides, the BTC price is still not rising, and may as well fall.  At this time, buying bitcoin is not a sensible medium-term investment.  That includes buying a bunch of bitcoin now in order to make multiple purchases over the next weeks or months. 

At this time, paying with bitcoin only makes sense if one already has bitcoins that were mined or bought for investment, and has decided to sell them.  If the merchant actually accepts bitcoin, the route bitcoin-->merchandise would incur in less fees than bitcoin-->dollars-->merchandise.  However, most bitcoin payment processors like Bitpay actually do the latter, so the dollar transmission fees must be paid by someone sometime.

The customer could simply go through the KYC of getting verified for instant buys of BTC on coinbase (hassle but no money).
The customer could then buy exact amount of BTC needed, send BTC to merchant (less the discount) receive the merchandise.
But see the bolded sentence above.  In order to buy the BTC one has to send dollars to Coinbase.  How could that route be cheaper than sending  those dollars directly to the merchant?
The merchant is offering a discount for paying in bitcoin. The route does not need to be cheaper, as it would not be cheaper, but would essentially cost the same (you could potentially have to "pay" the spread that coinbase charges).
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June 25, 2014, 04:12:01 AM
 #79

Short answer is no.

Cash still has the lowest fee. And credit card sometimes gives promotion/discount.

There is zero economic incentive to use bitcoin for local trade.
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June 25, 2014, 04:44:25 AM
 #80

The route [ dollars-->bitcoin-->merchandise ] does not need to be cheaper [ than dollars-->merchandise ], as it would not be cheaper, but would essentially cost the same (you could potentially have to "pay" the spread that coinbase charges).
Thanks, that is the problem: the customer who does not have the bitcoins yet will end up paying more by paying with bitcoins than by paying with dollars.  If any such customer tries to pay with bitcoin just out of curiosity, he will be disappointed.

Therefore those services are not going to help bitcoin adoption; they cater to the bitcoin believers who already have bitcoins and want to spend them.

Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
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