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Author Topic: BitcoinKarma.com - Help Quantify Risk in Transactions  (Read 4134 times)
PHPAdam
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April 18, 2011, 07:23:25 PM
 #1

Love Your Thoughts  Undecided
Tag: Help Quantify Risk in Transactions

The Premise
This is a Karma system. It will allow a user to create an Account, the user can then add a Bitcoin Address and other information to their Account to add Karma. The Account holds the Karma, so add of as many Bitcoin Address to share Karma between.

What is the need?
A Unique Selling Point for Bitcoin is that it is anonymous this puts Trust to the test. Bitcoin Karma will help all involved quantify risk in the transaction.

What is Karma
This will be an evolving score and happy to take suggestions. Points will be awarded for :
  • Quantity of Transactions
  • Value of Transactions
  • Age of Bit address
  • Karma of others you interact with
Please suggest more. The Karma will be made up of just Bitcoin data though may expand into ebay style feedback, telephone verification and address verification at a later date if system is used.

How to Verify Bitcoin Address?
Users will be ask to send a decimal of a bitcoin to us (then sent back) to verify they have ownership.

The end of being anonymous?
You select the BitCoin addresses to link to your account, the API wont show any PI information except your addresses will have the same karma points. I see this as a hot topic.

The Future
The idea is to adding extras: OpenID Server, Intergeneration with Bitcoin-Contact, Integration with an Exchange.
If the project is useful and is used then I will incorporate at Companies House in England.

The Code
The main website (http://bitcoinkarma.com/) will be closed but wholly run from the API which I hope to open on GitHub once its structure is established.
I code in PHP but the API will be open, my hope is that the API can be used by other websites or add-ons.

Help me, Help You
Please reply with your concerns, ideas and suggestions. My time is finite and so happy to delegate. I hope their are some reply's and will be on #bitcoin-dev as user H4U if you want to talk.

Website: http://BitcoinKarma.com
Twitter: @BitcoinKarma
Email: beta@BitcoinKarma.com

P.S. The project needs a logo.
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ryepdx
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April 19, 2011, 09:12:40 AM
 #2

If you intend to do this, please do two things:
1. Integrate your system with the Web of Trust.
2. Allow other websites to integrate your trust system, much like Facebook lets other websites integrate their user data.

Presently I am working on a website which I intend to release to the community as an open source project. I intend to integrate other open source projects as much as possible as well. It could certainly use a trust system. In fact, I intended to create my own system to integrate with the Web of Trust as much as possible, but if you're planning on creating a web app to specialize in that I would be more than happy to use it instead. :-)
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April 19, 2011, 12:15:40 PM
 #3

This is something I and a few others were going to start working on a few months ago, until we got side tracked doing the stock exchange. It's still next on our list though.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

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PHPAdam
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April 19, 2011, 04:00:51 PM
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This is something I and a few others were going to start working on a few months ago, until we got side tracked doing the stock exchange. It's still next on our list though.
Before you and your friends set up stall with this project, give me a shout see if we can work together.

1. Integrate your system with the Web of Trust.
2. Allow other websites to integrate your trust system, much like Facebook lets other websites integrate their user data.
1. WOT evaluates websites, this project will evaluate Bitcoin Addresses / Users. Im unsure how this can link in with WOT.
2. Absolutely, the API is the first thing to be brought out, giving everyone who wants the ease to to use the data.
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April 19, 2011, 04:09:52 PM
 #5

1. Integrate your system with the Web of Trust.
1. WOT evaluates websites, this project will evaluate Bitcoin Addresses / Users. Im unsure how this can link in with WOT.
Web of trust in this context refers to the user rating system used at bitcoin-otc, a market for over-the-counter trading.

This space intentionally left blank.
PHPAdam
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April 19, 2011, 04:25:17 PM
 #6

 Roll Eyes Thanks for the info, I think this WOT could be a very useful resource.
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April 19, 2011, 04:42:20 PM
 #7

I think WOT can be a nice, user moderated, input signal for the karma rating just like others. I hope there's a nice way to contribute back to WOT ^^

Want to see what developers are chatting about? http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/
Bitcoin-OTC Rating
ryepdx
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April 19, 2011, 07:55:52 PM
 #8

I hope there's a nice way to contribute back to WOT ^^

+1

Generating a key and registering with the bot was easy enough for me, but I think for most people it's out of reach.
PHPAdam
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April 19, 2011, 08:33:33 PM
 #9

Generating a key and registering with the bot was easy enough for me, but I think for most people it's out of reach.
Yes, it does not seem easy.


I think WOT can be a nice, user moderated, input signal for the karma rating just like others. I hope there's a nice way to contribute back to WOT ^^
I have tried to get in contact with its operator nanotube, then it dawned on me PM. I have requested use of its data for the project, I think it could be a good input signal as you say.
If their is a way that a BitcoinKarma login can be used for authentication and to rate users as part of WOT id be more than happy to facilitate.
ryepdx
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April 19, 2011, 10:06:25 PM
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I have tried to get in contact with its operator nanotube, then it dawned on me PM. I have requested use of its data for the project, I think it could be a good input signal as you say.
If their is a way that a BitcoinKarma login can be used for authentication and to rate users as part of WOT id be more than happy to facilitate.

At the rawest level you could just query the IRC bot and parse its responses. If you do integrate with OTC-WOT, you should probably allow users to either supply their own GPG key or else have one created and registered for them. Then you can put a nice shiny web interface over the whole thing and call it good. :-)

If you *do* go with WOT integration, you might look into allowing users to sign up using their GPG key. I was perusing nanotube's code and it seems WOT has the ability to authenticate a user based on their GPG key. That would solve the whole "allowing users to either supply their own key or have one created and registered for them" problem.

As for how you might go about creating a BitcoinKarma authentication API, take a look at oAuth2, OpenID, and Facebook Connect. At the very least you could set yourself up as an OpenID or oAuth service provider.

Tell us if you decide to do this. If you don't, I'll be looking to create it myself. Otherwise, I'd be willing to help out as I'll likely be integrating your website's functionality with mine.
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April 21, 2011, 03:36:47 AM
 #11

Hey,

You can get raw data from the sqlite dbs, posted on site:
http://bitcoin-otc.com/otc/

Also, we've done some integration of OTC WOT with coinpal - he posts signed messages of automated ratings for people who purchase, i pull them into the rating db automagically.
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2555.msg89178#msg89178

and yes, as suggested above - allowing users to register with gpg key (maybe as an option - like on coinpal), would allow us to collaborate on integrating any ratings from bitcoinkarma into the otc wot.

Join #bitcoin-market on freenode for real-time market updates.
Join #bitcoin-otc - an over-the-counter trading market. http://bitcoin-otc.com
OTC web of trust: http://bitcoin-otc.com/trust.php
My trust rating: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=nanotube
nanotube
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April 21, 2011, 03:38:48 AM
 #12

another note:
registering a bitcoin address to a karma account is really only useful one-way - when you send to a person, to one of the addresses registered on karma, it would provide identity/karma information. however, since client doesn't allow one to send /from/ a particular address, going the other way (i.e., receiving coins), bitcoinkarma system would not be of use as far as proving who you're dealing with.

Join #bitcoin-market on freenode for real-time market updates.
Join #bitcoin-otc - an over-the-counter trading market. http://bitcoin-otc.com
OTC web of trust: http://bitcoin-otc.com/trust.php
My trust rating: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=nanotube
PHPAdam
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April 21, 2011, 12:04:25 PM
 #13

At the very least you could set yourself up as an OpenID or oAuth service provider.
I have not looked at this, though was advised it was not too difficult. I think it could be a great to have such a facility and have other bitcoin services authenticate, one login for the whole bitcoin community would be excellent.
At the moment I am doing login where you can login via any associated bit-coin address and a password. Will look at adding FB/Google account association.

You can get raw data from the sqlite dbs,
Also, we've done some integration of OTC WOT with coinpal - he posts signed messages of automated ratings for people who purchase
allowing users to register with gpg key
I will do as you suggest. It would be best practice for me to design this so a user can assign their GPG key to an Account and not to the individual bitcoin addresses.

Im sorry I do not understand your last post, either party in a transaction can check someone's Karma Rating.

I am hoping to put some time into this project, thanks to a strange holiday season in the UK, bank holidays and so forth.
wobber
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April 21, 2011, 06:43:45 PM
 #14

I can create a logo for BitcoinKarma.com. Any elements you would like to see in the design?

If you hate me, you can spam me here: 19wdQNKjnATkgXvpzmSrkSYhJtuJWb8mKs
nanotube
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April 21, 2011, 07:47:57 PM
 #15

You can get raw data from the sqlite dbs,
Also, we've done some integration of OTC WOT with coinpal - he posts signed messages of automated ratings for people who purchase
allowing users to register with gpg key
I will do as you suggest. It would be best practice for me to design this so a user can assign their GPG key to an Account and not to the individual bitcoin addresses.

right. Smiley

Quote
Im sorry I do not understand your last post, either party in a transaction can check someone's Karma Rating.

I am hoping to put some time into this project, thanks to a strange holiday season in the UK, bank holidays and so forth.

ok, let's walk through this. let's say there's a guy with address 1xxxxx registered on bitkarma, and there's a guy with address 1yyyyyy as well. let's say 1xxxxx is buying socks from 1yyyyy. well, mr 1xxxxxx can easily look up 1yyyyyyy's rating on bitkarma, and if he sends his bitcoins to address 1yyyyyy, he knows that he sends to the right guy - namely, the guy that he's sending coins to is the same guy whose karma he has just looked up.

now, how about mr 1yyyyyy, how does he know who he's dealing with? mr 1xxxxxxx can say hey, look up my karma, address 1xxxxxxx. but /anyone/ can say the same thing, even if he doesn't own address 1xxxxxxxxx. thus, while the receiver's identity is verifiable simply by sending to 1yyyyyyyy, the sender's karma is not, since anyone can claim an address.

which actually brings up another point - even the receiver, if he just wants to 'grief' someone by having them lose btc, can claim someone else's karma by handing out other people's addresses. he won't get the btc, so there's no gain to the griefer. but there's loss to the sender, since he just sent btc to some random person who wasn't expecting it.

in other words... on your site you need some way for people to easily prove that they own accountX, prior to a transaction.

Join #bitcoin-market on freenode for real-time market updates.
Join #bitcoin-otc - an over-the-counter trading market. http://bitcoin-otc.com
OTC web of trust: http://bitcoin-otc.com/trust.php
My trust rating: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=nanotube
Babylon
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April 21, 2011, 07:57:32 PM
 #16

You can get raw data from the sqlite dbs,
Also, we've done some integration of OTC WOT with coinpal - he posts signed messages of automated ratings for people who purchase
allowing users to register with gpg key
I will do as you suggest. It would be best practice for me to design this so a user can assign their GPG key to an Account and not to the individual bitcoin addresses.

right. Smiley

Quote
Im sorry I do not understand your last post, either party in a transaction can check someone's Karma Rating.

I am hoping to put some time into this project, thanks to a strange holiday season in the UK, bank holidays and so forth.

ok, let's walk through this. let's say there's a guy with address 1xxxxx registered on bitkarma, and there's a guy with address 1yyyyyy as well. let's say 1xxxxx is buying socks from 1yyyyy. well, mr 1xxxxxx can easily look up 1yyyyyyy's rating on bitkarma, and if he sends his bitcoins to address 1yyyyyy, he knows that he sends to the right guy - namely, the guy that he's sending coins to is the same guy whose karma he has just looked up.

now, how about mr 1yyyyyy, how does he know who he's dealing with? mr 1xxxxxxx can say hey, look up my karma, address 1xxxxxxx. but /anyone/ can say the same thing, even if he doesn't own address 1xxxxxxxxx. thus, while the receiver's identity is verifiable simply by sending to 1yyyyyyyy, the sender's karma is not, since anyone can claim an address.

which actually brings up another point - even the receiver, if he just wants to 'grief' someone by having them lose btc, can claim someone else's karma by handing out other people's addresses. he won't get the btc, so there's no gain to the griefer. but there's loss to the sender, since he just sent btc to some random person who wasn't expecting it.

in other words... on your site you need some way for people to easily prove that they own accountX, prior to a transaction.

Proof of ownership of the outgoing address can be done by sending a bitcent or two.

Garrett Burgwardt
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April 21, 2011, 07:58:10 PM
 #17

You can get raw data from the sqlite dbs,
Also, we've done some integration of OTC WOT with coinpal - he posts signed messages of automated ratings for people who purchase
allowing users to register with gpg key
I will do as you suggest. It would be best practice for me to design this so a user can assign their GPG key to an Account and not to the individual bitcoin addresses.

right. Smiley

Quote
Im sorry I do not understand your last post, either party in a transaction can check someone's Karma Rating.

I am hoping to put some time into this project, thanks to a strange holiday season in the UK, bank holidays and so forth.

ok, let's walk through this. let's say there's a guy with address 1xxxxx registered on bitkarma, and there's a guy with address 1yyyyyy as well. let's say 1xxxxx is buying socks from 1yyyyy. well, mr 1xxxxxx can easily look up 1yyyyyyy's rating on bitkarma, and if he sends his bitcoins to address 1yyyyyy, he knows that he sends to the right guy - namely, the guy that he's sending coins to is the same guy whose karma he has just looked up.

now, how about mr 1yyyyyy, how does he know who he's dealing with? mr 1xxxxxxx can say hey, look up my karma, address 1xxxxxxx. but /anyone/ can say the same thing, even if he doesn't own address 1xxxxxxxxx. thus, while the receiver's identity is verifiable simply by sending to 1yyyyyyyy, the sender's karma is not, since anyone can claim an address.

which actually brings up another point - even the receiver, if he just wants to 'grief' someone by having them lose btc, can claim someone else's karma by handing out other people's addresses. he won't get the btc, so there's no gain to the griefer. but there's loss to the sender, since he just sent btc to some random person who wasn't expecting it.

in other words... on your site you need some way for people to easily prove that they own accountX, prior to a transaction.

Proof of ownership of the outgoing address can be done by sending a bitcent or two.

No - currently you cannot choose what address to send coins from.
PHPAdam
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April 23, 2011, 01:30:52 PM
 #18

in other words... on your site you need some way for people to easily prove that they own accountX, prior to a transaction.
I can provide an randomly generated authkey if that helps? I.E. owner of address provides it to 3rd party to type in website and verify.
I think I see the point your raise, but not sure it will be a big issue.

I can create a logo for BitcoinKarma.com. Any elements you would like to see in the design?
The word bitcoin or graphic representing such and the word Karma, I guess.
Im not much of an artist, but theirs some examples of simular uses, to give you some inspiration.

Please bear in mind, I also want to allow people to display their Karma in forum signitures for example like a "userbar", so make it scale if possible. I also need an avatar, no rush (honestly) but sooner the better.

The chosen graphics artist, will be featured of coerce on the credits and will contribute to you those that give guidance or help with passing on some of donation monies.

PHPAdam
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April 23, 2011, 10:32:16 PM
 #19

The First Steps!
I created a basic API and then used it to create dynamic signature/avatar.

The karma formula is coming together, I have the basic outline of what 1/3 of the karma system will look like. I have a really low score Sad
Bitcoin Oz
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June 19, 2012, 02:19:55 AM
 #20

Is this still going ?

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