The Decentralized Union - New Bitcoin/Crypto Foundation

[cryptopaths]

Of course one main goal of the Decentralized union will be to further Crypto.

Unlike the Bitcoin Foundation I strongly believe The Decentralized Union should focus on staying decentralized and giving no one person great/complete control over operations including myself.

Also the "donations" required to be in the Bitcoin foundation trouble me greatly. This is an obvious attempt to profit off of an organization that should be furthering crypto.

Donating shouldn't be the main/only way to get in a foundation.

The Decentralized Union will put a higher priority on those that have actually contributed something innovative to the crypto community such as new protocols, services, features etc.

So I'm asking you the Crypto community what you would like to see the Decentralized Union accomplish what should be some goals?

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[Carlton Banks]

Give the developers sole control of donation funds. Multi-sig address. Maybe there could be multiple addresses, with different development goals attributed to each address. There's a danger that people could effectively buy their own course of development (a similar argument could be made about the Bitcoin Foundation; a successful candidate can buy votes for the price of a one year membership, industry membership just gets bonus votes, and seemingly only the ability to pay counts)

[DooMAD]

Isn't this proposal essentially the same thing as this thread?  Probably best to keep all the ideas together for the sake of staying organised.  Although this thread seems to have a more catchy name, heh.  I'll "+1" that part at least.

[franky1]

quoting myself to save writing twice

forgive me but i like to be constructively critical for two reasons.
1. to see if a project holds any weight in actually working
2. if they do have weight, to tweak and correct things to become better

so heres some points.
1 there does not need to be decisions made by a board
2 there does not need to be a board at all
3 there does not need to be membership fee's

so imagine this
a 'jobs website
where people/businesses can list their goals/tasks they want to achieve. and have a bounty (their costs). then anyone and everyone can put money into that listing, and when filled that person/business carries out their task

imagine this
"bitpay: hold an actual meeting with amazon and show them how to integrate bitcoin: costs=plane ticket+hotel(1BTC)"
"Userxy: get 3 merchants in my town to accept bitcoin: costs=3hours labour(0.1btc)"
"AndreasA: to speak at a government hearing about bitcoin: cost=plane ticket+hotel(1BTC)"

this way people are not paid wages for sitting on their asses, and each task can be individually funded, instead of there being losers or winners.
also it stops vote rigging as the only time these people get paid is by pople that want them to do something. thus if they put their own money in they are simply paying themselves. which is not going to work well compared to 'buying votes'

so instead of putting in large fee's to be a member, people save this money and use it to pay for actual tasks and goals to be filled. this stops the corruption of board members getting paid simply for owning a website and appearing to be an authority

[cryptopaths]

quoting myself to save writing twice

forgive me but i like to be constructively critical for two reasons.
1. to see if a project holds any weight in actually working
2. if they do have weight, to tweak and correct things to become better

so heres some points.
1 there does not need to be decisions made by a board
2 there does not need to be a board at all
3 there does not need to be membership fee's

so imagine this
a 'jobs website
where people/businesses can list their goals/tasks they want to achieve. and have a bounty (their costs). then anyone and everyone can put money into that listing, and when filled that person/business carries out their task

imagine this
"bitpay: hold an actual meeting with amazon and show them how to integrate bitcoin: costs=plane ticket+hotel(1BTC)"
"Userxy: get 3 merchants in my town to accept bitcoin: costs=3hours labour(0.1btc)"
"AndreasA: to speak at a government hearing about bitcoin: cost=plane ticket+hotel(1BTC)"

this way people are not paid wages for sitting on their asses, and each task can be individually funded, instead of there being losers or winners.
also it stops vote rigging as the only time these people get paid is by pople that want them to do something. thus if they put their own money in they are simply paying themselves. which is not going to work well compared to 'buying votes'

so instead of putting in large fee's to be a member, people save this money and use it to pay for actual tasks and goals to be filled. this stops the corruption of board members getting paid simply for owning a website and appearing to be an authority

I understand your quoting yourself from another thread but if you read the original post you can see your 3 concerns were addressed in favor of what you were thinking.

[franky1]

I understand your quoting yourself from another thread but if you read the original post you can see your 3 concerns were addressed in favor of what you were thinking.

i did understand. i was just showing a good example of HOW to organise the 'union' without middlemen and lackies sitting on their arses getting a guaranteed income.

also foundations and unions are names of groups that need 'official' organisation and registrations with alot of government red tape.

by calling it a foundation legally requires board members
by calling it a union. well that a whole different kettle of fish.

how about try the words
co-op
consortium

which dont require government red tape and lots of paid lackies that just simply sit on their hands as board members for legal purposes. all thats needed is a transparent and open system that cannot be corrupted and rub by a skeleton crew(preferably everyone: imagining wikipedia's self moderating for instance)

[cryptopaths]

Yes I was thinking of an organization of something on those terms. Any "head members" would be less in a position of decision and more coordination. Literally anyone can propose a project and the projects that are pursued will be decided by what the community deems best.

[christopherdebeer]

First off: I quite like that name it has a nice ring to it.

I've been thinking about this for a while, ( since before the Foundation, started crumbling ) just because I feel that while its good to have  a single banner for core devs we also need local (ie country specific) Bitcoin/blockchain advocacy groups.

So I started working on: https://github.com/christopherdebeer/btca-template

It started as a fork/clone of the foundation's manifesto and is slowly evolving with the input of a few bitcoiners in the UK specifically for https://github.com/bitcoinallianceuk/btca-template the Bitcoin Alliance UK which we're trying to organise and get mindshare for. The problem is that everyone has their own ideas about what such a group should do if any UK based bitcointalk members read this I'd very much appreciate you getting in touch info@bitcoinalliance.co.uk , even if it is to say that we're doing it all wrong (seriously!)

I know i've kind of gone on a tangent about a UK group, but if you checkout the repo I think the model of operation could still stand, which is why I feel its a template that can be contributed to and used by groups all over the world int he same way.

Also its so crap trying to organise such a group when name are flying around, All we want to do if bring the blockchain the the rest of the word, but whatever name one is trying to rally under can become faddish or frowned apon within a matter of days. We have gone with alliance as we plan to be a losely coupled group of other more local groups in the UK.

[Lethn]

There's a UK Bitcoin organisation? Do you guys have a website? I seem to recall a thread being made awhile back about doing this.

[christopherdebeer]

@Lethn your (kind of) response is exactly why we're trying to get it sorted, we've not gone Public with a capital P yet because we're still trying to sort out the agenda and structure, but if you're interested and/or know others who are please send them our way or get in touch!!

placeholder site: http://bitcoinalliance.co.uk as yet unpublisized/used forum: forum.bitcoinalliance.co.uk
email contact: info@bitcoinalliance.co.uk

So far its a collaboration between a few UK meetups etc (not all... yet) but we are by no means trying to be the ones 'in-charge' so much as be a banner for those that are interested to flock to, and welcome/invite any and all competing/existing organisations to work with us to come to a consensus as to what we All want from it.

[counter]

There's a UK Bitcoin organisation? Do you guys have a website? I seem to recall a thread being made awhile back about doing this.

I love the idea of this group being goal oriented when it comes to the image of Bitcoin.  I like the idea of rewarding those who have significantly to the community and I'd like to see other way to join the group other then having to pay to be a part of it.

[christopherdebeer]

There's a UK Bitcoin organisation? Do you guys have a website? I seem to recall a thread being made awhile back about doing this.

I love the idea of this group being goal oriented when it comes to the image of Bitcoin.  I like the idea of rewarding those who have significantly to the community and I'd like to see other way to join the group other then having to pay to be a part of it.

Agreed on all counts. Paying/contribution is obviously a good (read: easy) way to fund an organisation, but I believe that funds should be distributed as deemed fit by the members (who needn't be paying members).

As a counter point I can see how payment (of some sort) helps to indicate a members willingness/commitment to said organisation. but I'm sure there are better ways to achieve this.

[franky1]

there needs to be an announcement asking for:
PR guys (weed out fud and speak about the true bitcoin facts )
legal guys (lobbying and giving factual information about bitcoins current legal status in regards to handling and tax etc)
programmers (truly able to submit change proposals to the bitcoin-core github or create actual bitcoin-core alternatives)
advertisers (to work with users and businesses to promote bitcoin locally, nationally, internationally)
businesses (to help new start-ups (mentoring) aswell as offer real world bitcoin uses)

all of which want to work for bounties and have idea's of what they can offer

you know what i mean, actual bitcoin infrastructure guys that can make things happen. as there is no point having a group if the only thing that happens is chatter and gossip between bitcoin average joe 'users'.

once there is a contact list of people that can do some real world change, then the ball can start rolling. and then the average joe users can read who is truly able to help so that users can submit idea's of what needs to change and know which bitcoin infrastructure guys to aim it to.

im not saying there needs to be a complete list before anything 'rolls'. im not saying there needs to be just one candidate for each industry. and im not saying the list has to be set in stone. all im saying is that getting a contact list of 'real world changers' is more important then getting average joe members.

[RodeoX]

Some good ideas here. +1

[cryptopaths]

I agree with a lot of the points made and yes unlike a lot of other foundations we should set our goals on actually reaching achievements.

[franky1]

Some good ideas here. +1

and im attempting to make it more then just idea's.

i am getting a coder to make a open plan, self moderating template design for a foundation that is automated in places so that the community inputs the information and the guys behind the scenes (whomever they will be) are not required to be board members. but basically moderators.

even the voting/consensus discussions and bounties are community controlled thus no one has control over limiting voting options. its about as open as a forum(but not a forum), but with better features and automation to keep tasks on track and organised/targeted.

just got to wait for him to finish coding it then ill get him to offer it to whomever wants to be the moderators (webmaster/domain owner)
ofcourse like in all business there would be a price to pay for any labour. i never endorse slavery, but if whomever wants a foundation bad enough should pay for the labour of others.

im not sure how much bounty he will request. but im sure it is more fairly, honestly and cheaply priced compared to the price theymos believes this forum is worth, for a glamour redesign. or TBF's entry fee's into their little bookclub.

so yes i know even in a bounty based system there are still costs involved with stuff like paying coders, domain name providers, hosting services. so there is no denying or ignoring that fact.

i simply hope the domain owner/moderator recoops their server and coding costs through advertising and other services that help the community and bitcoin businesses. and doesnt do it through membership fee's.

what we do not want is a system where basement dwellers that want to be handed a free-bee and then abuse it into a money making scheme. i believe in honest and transparent business and communities that can work together, no extortion trying to get super-rich, and no extortion trying to get slaves to work for free.

thats why i believe bounties work best

P.S. this is where we now see those wanting to make a foundation start to go silent as they now realise that they are not ever handed a free-bee that will make them millionaires. and those that dont stay silent are those that have the true passion to do the right thing

[cryptopaths]

This is heading the right direction.

[franky1]

This is heading the right direction.

while the non-requirement of centralized control (instead of using the word decentralised) has been discussed now lets talk about content.

who wants to NOT sit on their hands and has actual skills, experience and idea's that can help a community grow. im not talking about making the backbone website or being the 'trustee' holding the funds not a board member. i mean community and business projects..

please feel free to supply info on what you can bring to the COMMUNITY. and what you would like to see developed for the community.

this is your time to submit your name as contacts for people to use for their projects,
this is your time to submit your name idea's of projects you want to see the community use in the future.

so don't be shy

[franky1]

seeing as the OP made this thread. i thought i should bring it to everyones attention.

The OP messaged me, at first i thought it was going to be about great idea's. but the end result was him wishing that the community buys an island.

so here is his whole message

I have always felt Central banks and the current financial system is one of the main things holding the world back. With this in mind is why I chose to start the Decentralized Union, I feel the Decentralized Union can put a stop to this and needs a tangible place were things can be based. This is why I propose an actual land mass for the Decentralized Union to be based most likely an island that is Crypto Centric. These are not as expensive as most think and can be easily gained together by the community. The Decentralized Union can be a very attractive place for those that make the majority of their earnings through crypto because The Decentralized Union will have no tax.

The widely stated statement that every land mass is already claimed by a government is true but what people forget is many of these claims are disputed and not actually recognized. It is still a possibility to claim an island or land mass.

This may seem like a crazy idea but unlike many other foundations we need to take some initiative and do something that will push crypto in the right direction.

Doge coin countless times has raised big sums of money for things like events, winter olympics, even $55k for a nascar driver. Think of how much just they would contribute for a chance to be associated with the creation of such a wonder.

This is largely doable but the members of the Decentralized Union need to get our heads together and get this thing moving.

and here is my reply

sorry but you have missed the whole point.

instead of spreading bitcoin to the world. you want to shrink it down to one island. instead of allowing anyone anywhere to make change you want to limit it to an island.

sorry but go buy an island and use a islandcoin (an altcoin) on it.

bitcoin is international that can be used in any home in any country. it needs no land. it needs no central control. it needs no membership fee's

buying an island is just your real estate scam.. i am sorry but peoples bitcoins will and should not be used for something that does not benefit the whole world.

mayb you please re-chck your ethics and ideals about what bitcoin is. and not think about generating revenue for something as naive and selfish as an island.

those idea's have been thrown out atleast 10 times in the past couple of years. they are not needed.

as for advertising. yep dogecoin needs advertising as it has no usefulness thus it needs catchy advertising to suck people into buying worthless dogecoins, simply so the holders of doge can cash out.

bitcoin . just like any other true currency (dollar, pound, yen, euro) does not need advertising. and the only advertising even related to bitcoin should be around investment companies offering investments, retailers offering products, charities asking for donations, freelancers offering their skills. all for their favourite currency.

do not think of bitcoin as a product that needs promoting. allow businesses to promote their 'wares' and mention bitcoin as the prefered/only method of getting those 'wares'

[franky1]

.. continuing with my last post

getting people to buy into a website (fee's) an island(donation) is not something that will help the international community. it is simply to make a few select guys rich and living mortgage free, offering hotel rooms and travel to their island at a price.

very selfish and narrow minded.

instead what bitcoin TRULY needs is contacts of every industry,
LEGIT investment companies
LEGIT businesses offering products
LEGIT freelancers offering their skills.

and grow the bitcoins industry into something every day joe public can use. and then advertise all this great industry to the public.

ontop of this bitcoin needs coders to help get these industries started. it needs inspired and aspirational people that want to grow bitcoin, not a landowners back pocket.