Chicken or Egg problem

[jamesc760]

What's going to happen first, a proper exchange in the US or a dramatic new rise in bitcoin price?

I'm asking because we are now at a point where the bitcoin price is flattening due to equilibrium. I mean, would you trust bitstamp or btc-e or any other existing exchanges to send you thousands of dollars when btc price rises up? Remember MtGox? They couldn't survive the recent price rise; you can argue that they keeled over due to hackerz, but the main thing is they couldn't recover due to high bitcoin price.

I honestly believe none of the existing exchanges will not be able to withstand the coming bubble. For instance, when the next ride-to-the-moon pumps bitcoin price to, say, $5000 a piece. If you try to sell 50 coins, then the exchange will have to send you $250K. That's a Quarter Million Dollars. It's the price of a regular family size house across the US. I just don't see these current exchanges able to trade huge sums of dollars/euros/whatnots.

Ergo, don't expect prices to rise until a proper exchange(s) start operating in the US.

PS: I don't consider coinbase to be an exchange and let's not forget that they could not handle the volume during the run-up in price last Nov/Dec.

[Dalmar]

Imagine BTC-e having a billion dollars on its order book.   It aint going to happen.

[Torque]

Been thinking about this too.  Actually a high valuation could actually help 'float' the overall market cap, as most would be reticent to cash out completely to avoid paying high taxes and fees.  This would in effect provide the needed support for long term growth.  I believe that most long term bitcoiners will:

1.  Only sell small amounts of btc to fiat that they know won't raise the red flag with their bank(s).
2.  Sell large amounts of btc to fiat off the exchanges, especially to have no effect on the exchange rate.
3.  Keep the majority of their btc and not cash out, since market cap and price will continue to rise year after year until it saturates.
4.  In the future, you should be able to purchase a wide range of goods and services directly in btc.  Perhaps even houses.  

And I'm guessing that proper exchanges in the U.S. are coming as fast as they can possibly move.  

[MoreFun]

What are you worried about: exchanges or buying power?

If someone is able to buy your 50 coins, then the exchange already has quarter of a million from "someone". So what would be the problem for sending the money back to you? Are you concrned about banking problems or what?

[gentlemand]

After Gox, BTC-e's anonymity and Bitstamp's stupid KYC questions and reverifications in a far off country I think there's going to have to be a 'real' exchange before things can look like taking off.

They're all a significant turn off to the fresher player.

Bitcoin has gotten as far as it can with what's on the table right now. If we're talking tens of millions per day then what's out there at the moment simply won't cut it.

A summer bubble would be fun. I don't see what could kick it off anywhere near the horizon. I think it's Q3 and beyond where things might eventually heat up.

When ETFs are out there and there's a US exchange that can be truly depended on, that's when someone could point to it and say that it's now part of the finance landscape.

[MatTheCat]

After Gox, BTC-e's anonymity and Bitstamp's stupid KYC questions and reverifications in a far off country I think there's going to have to be a 'real' exchange before things can look like taking off.

They're all a significant turn off to the fresher player.

Bitcoin has gotten as far as it can with what's on the table right now. If we're talking tens of millions per day then what's out there at the moment simply won't cut it.

A summer bubble would be fun. I don't see what could kick it off anywhere near the horizon. I think it's Q3 and beyond where things might eventually heat up.

When ETFs are out there and there's a US exchange that can be truly depended on, that's when someone could point to it and say that it's now part of the finance landscape.

I think I have probably transferred my last fiat onto Bitstamp due to their anal-probing and not to mention mind boggling KYC procedures.

I now channel funds to Kraken. Much better site layout and trading options than Bitstamp but getting orders filled their is a fkn nightmare due to low volume.

BTC-e, I don't trust to be quite honest. Another prominent Western exchange has to come to the fore. Currently the flagship is Bitstamp, but if they are wanting to give me the anal probe treatment whenever I want to transfer a few grand across and that is putting me off using them, what effects are they having on larger and much larger players?

Bitstamp KYC will be undoubtedly pushing people away from Bitcoin or at least limiting investment/speculation in the instrument.

[jamesc760]

What are you worried about: exchanges or buying power?

If someone is able to buy your 50 coins, then the exchange already has quarter of a million from "someone". So what would be the problem for sending the money back to you? Are you concrned about banking problems or what?

I'm worried about the exchange (or operators) being tempted by the huge amounts of money coming in, when and if bitcoin reaches $5000 or higher level. What would keep them from being honest and fill the orders? With tens (hundreds?) of millions dollars coming in fast and quick, it would be tempting to just disappear with the cash. No?

[Ibian]

The more money flows through the exchange the more they make. Nothing changes.

[YipYip]

Personally i have transfered 150k in the last 60 days for myself & others..and you point is ?

Stamp have always been professionaly & as for the KYC ...answer the fucking questions

This is not SIlkroad or money launder city anymore ..The market is maturing ....

ATLAS & some other players look awesome..once we have Options & Leverage on a proper platform ..you will see wall street enter the market

Currently the functionality of the instruments available dont provide the ability to hedge positions very well..

[MatTheCat]

Personally i have transfered 150k in the last 60 days for myself & others..and you point is ?

Stamp have always been professionaly & as for the KYC ...answer the fucking questions

This is not SIlkroad or money launder city anymore ..The market is maturing ....

ATLAS & some other players look awesome..once we have Options & Leverage on a proper platform ..you will see wall street enter the market

Currently the functionality of the instruments available dont provide the ability to hedge positions very well..

Have you provided documentary evidence of how you earn your money?

Tax details?

Payslips and/or contracts?

Bitstamp have no fkn right to ask for any of this stuff. Fuck those guys.

[solarion]

Agreed. I won't have anything to do with bitstamp, or any other exchange that demands a bunch of data they've no right requesting and don't need to connect me with other traders.

[YipYip]

Personally i have transfered 150k in the last 60 days for myself & others..and you point is ?

Stamp have always been professionaly & as for the KYC ...answer the fucking questions

This is not SIlkroad or money launder city anymore ..The market is maturing ....

ATLAS & some other players look awesome..once we have Options & Leverage on a proper platform ..you will see wall street enter the market

Currently the functionality of the instruments available dont provide the ability to hedge positions very well..

Have you provided documentary evidence of how you earn your money?

Tax details?

Payslips and/or contracts?

Bitstamp have no fkn right to ask for any of this stuff. Fuck those guys.

I have provided everything that was requested..i have nothing to hide

Are you a fucking child .....Seriously...They have every right to verify that you are not laundering money & to confirm that you have earned these funds legally

Every bank would want to see ALL of the same...If they dont then they are being lax & it would be a concern

Grow up....This is where bitcoin is going... & Thank You Jesus or Satan for That

 

[gentlemand]

I've opened plenty of bank accounts.

Not once have they ever asked me for tax returns, proof of where I obtained the money or how I first heard of money. It's not acceptable.

[YipYip]

I've opened plenty of bank accounts.

Not once have they ever asked me for tax returns, proof of where I obtained the money or how I first heard of money. It's not acceptable.

Its a trading account not a BANK account

It is acceptable & get used to it

[gentlemand]

Well, I opened several share trading accounts too recently. Did they ask any of that shit? Er, nope.

Proof of address and ID is enough for them. I'm not giving any more to a nascent company in a far off land.

[Wary]

2.  Sell large amounts of btc to fiat off the exchanges, especially to have no effect on the exchange rate.

Selling off-exchange does affect exchange rates, just as much as on-exchange selling does. It only takes more time for the price info to propagate.

[MatTheCat]

Its a trading account not a BANK account

It is acceptable & get used to it

No it isn't and plenty people aren't accepting it and are therefore not wiring funds to Bitstamp which in turn is harming Bitcoin.

Get used to it.

[YipYip]

Its a trading account not a BANK account

It is acceptable & get used to it

No it isn't and plenty people aren't accepting it and are therefore not wiring funds to Bitstamp which in turn is harming Bitcoin.

Get used to it.

...lolz you get used to it

I have an account ..you & other Nut jobs dont !

[MatTheCat]

...lolz you get used to it

I have an account ..you & other Nut jobs dont !

I have an account. Bitstamp have just seen to it that it is no longer possible for me to fund it.

[lyth0s]

Companies that run a tight ship in order to make sure no illegal activity is going on have a place in the bitcoin community, and it the end, these may be the only exchanges to survive once governments get more involved with bitcoin transactions/exchanges etc. If you want to exchange bitcoin "off the books" you'd have to use a more shady exchange or one that is located in a more tax/law-lean area and that is fine for you. But by having legit exchanges that brings in wall street, and bringing in wall street also brings in small time investors and of course the general public. I don't understand why you would hate bitstamp for being legit, you're always welcome to make your own exchange or find another one at this point.

High profile people with big "legal" money would probably rather use an exchange that is also "big and legal".

Just my 2 cents.