Why i prefer POW over POS

[minerman121]

Years of Monero, Groestl, Skein... Where's the chips?

Fortunately its just shitcoins and won't become anything. So no, we don't see chips.

Oh yeah, Monero is a shitcoin but PIVX isn't... LOL

Groestl and Skein are algorithms, I said Monero but means to say Cryptonite. Do you know why no ASICs actually exist for it? Because they will be more expensive! It's a memory intensive algorithm. Strawman arguments.

Strawman is to praise a coin because there are no chips today. Something that can change any moment.
I know Groestl and Skein are algorithms, but it's for mining shitcoins.

So I should dust of some PoW shitcoin and use it as an example of bad Pow too?
I never praised PIVX. This is a general discussion of PoW vs PoS.

Oh please. My arguments are more to do with PoW offering incentive for new people to jump in and secure a network. It's about the coin having community support that goes beyond a bunch of cheerleading. It;s about longevity. PoS cannot provide that. ETH can, because they enjoyed a long life of PoW mining, intrinsic ledger value and popularity.

[freeElectron]

Years of Monero, Groestl, Skein... Where's the chips?

Fortunately its just shitcoins and won't become anything. So no, we don't see chips.

Oh yeah, Monero is a shitcoin but PIVX isn't... LOL

Groestl and Skein are algorithms, I said Monero but means to say Cryptonite. Do you know why no ASICs actually exist for it? Because they will be more expensive! It's a memory intensive algorithm. Strawman arguments.

Strawman is to praise a coin because there are no chips today. Something that can change any moment.
I know Groestl and Skein are algorithms, but it's for mining shitcoins.

So I should dust of some PoW shitcoin and use it as an example of bad Pow too?
I never praised PIVX. This is a general discussion of PoW vs PoS.

Oh please. My arguments are more to do with PoW offering incentive for new people to jump in and secure a network. It's about the coin having community support that goes beyond a bunch of cheerleading. It;s about longevity. PoS cannot provide that. ETH can, because they enjoyed a long life of PoW mining, intrinsic ledger value and popularity.

Haha.. ETH is doing everything it can to leave PoW behind and go for PoS.

[freeElectron]

Sorry I had to post again, I wanted to give out some figures to the people who were having a huge cry about being locked out of mining when ASICs came out. And I will give some figures into staking. The base amount here is 10K USD. Assume you invest 10K into each of these, the figures will be relative to that avenue.

BTC mining:

4 Antminer S9 ASICs at 13.5 Thash each.

Cost: Less than $9116
Hash: 13.5 Thash total 54Thash
Earnings as of todays stats: $41.65/day gross.

XMR Mining:

5x 6 GPU Rigs total 30 GPU total $9000
Hash: 25550 total hash (850/card)
Earnings: $55USD daily gross.

EXP:

5x 6 GPU Rigs total 30 GPU total $9000
Hash: low intensity 27.6Mhash per card total 828Mhash
Earnings: $78USD Daily gross.

Above is what we call, incentive for supporting a network, and a low cost entry gate with sufficient risk/reward ratio, and a solid chance at ROI.

PIVX Staking:

9345 actively Staking
Earnings: 4.41PIVX every 37 hours

CROWN Staking:
Masternode cost: $7626 or 10,000CRW (calculator not working here)
Earnings: 4.50CRW every 15 hours

In which scenario above would you see adequate NEW ADOPTERS come in to secure a network through-out the coins life? Personally I lean towards the one that offers the actual incentive for my efforts, into a coin with intrinsic value backing it, with adequate liquidity provided for new buyers to buy, trade and use it. You cannot deny those figures. You cannot deny the logic. Risk, Reward and Incentive. 3 very important driving forces in todays world.

If it gives you more value it means it takes it from someone, which means people won't be attracted to your coin, because there are better deals out there.
There is no winning with such a setup. You drain it of value, you kill it.

[minerman121]

How can it take it from someone when the rewards are in the form of the coin itself not yet in existence because as well as security, it is also the distribution method?

I am telling you that from an algorithmic point of view, maybe PoS might be interesting, workable. But socially and economically, it does not work. Satoshi had a point.

[freeElectron]

How can it take it from someone when the rewards are in the form of the coin itself not yet in existence because as well as security, it is also the distribution method?

I am telling you that from an algorithmic point of view, maybe PoS might be interesting, workable. But socially and economically, it does not work. Satoshi had a point.

What point? It has failed.

The control has gone to where the electricity is the cheapest and where some high-tech company make new chips.

[Gozzy]

Both methods are cost effective , as with POW you spend money on electricity costs in order to mine the block which could end up with an unsuccessful haul or successful. With POS it's the same except you use the funds in your possession which is on the line in contrast to electricity costs & mining equipment. As with the POW the more funds you use could result in a larger reward but also bares an increased risk of losing majority of your funds invested in the POS. Someone beautifully summed up POS, saying as it's basically putting your money where your mouth is.

I'm thinking to mine ethereum asap before the POS comes in , save up some coins until the protocol changes over. Then use the vast amount of eth you've stored to result in more using POS system. But also could the ethereum blockchain split again?, this time one POS and one POW! who knows :p

[GetClams.com]

Both methods are cost effective , as with POW you spend money on electricity costs in order to mine the block which could end up with an unsuccessful haul or successful. With POS it's the same except you use the funds in your possession which is on the line in contrast to electricity costs & mining equipment. As with the POW the more funds you use could result in a larger reward but also bares an increased risk of losing majority of your funds invested in the POS. Someone beautifully summed up POS, saying as it's basically putting your money where your mouth is.

I'm thinking to mine ethereum asap before the POS comes in , save up some coins until the protocol changes over. Then use the vast amount of eth you've stored to result in more using POS system. But also could the ethereum blockchain split again?, this time one POS and one POW! who knows :p

Great explanation. Also I dont think we would have this scaling  problem with POS becaus the miners and the holders are the same party.

[Ayers]

Sorry I had to post again, I wanted to give out some figures to the people who were having a huge cry about being locked out of mining when ASICs came out. And I will give some figures into staking. The base amount here is 10K USD. Assume you invest 10K into each of these, the figures will be relative to that avenue.

BTC mining:

4 Antminer S9 ASICs at 13.5 Thash each.

Cost: Less than $9116
Hash: 13.5 Thash total 54Thash
Earnings as of todays stats: $41.65/day gross.

XMR Mining:

5x 6 GPU Rigs total 30 GPU total $9000
Hash: 25550 total hash (850/card)
Earnings: $55USD daily gross.

EXP:

5x 6 GPU Rigs total 30 GPU total $9000
Hash: low intensity 27.6Mhash per card total 828Mhash
Earnings: $78USD Daily gross.

Above is what we call, incentive for supporting a network, and a low cost entry gate with sufficient risk/reward ratio, and a solid chance at ROI.

PIVX Staking:

9345 actively Staking
Earnings: 4.41PIVX every 37 hours

CROWN Staking:
Masternode cost: $7626 or 10,000CRW (calculator not working here)
Earnings: 4.50CRW every 15 hours

In which scenario above would you see adequate NEW ADOPTERS come in to secure a network through-out the coins life? Personally I lean towards the one that offers the actual incentive for my efforts, into a coin with intrinsic value backing it, with adequate liquidity provided for new buyers to buy, trade and use it. You cannot deny those figures. You cannot deny the logic. Risk, Reward and Incentive. 3 very important driving forces in todays world.

mate this is wrong, these same gpu cost way less and earn much more, you did the math in the wrong way, let's do it again, 4 antminer consume also more than 5 rig, 4 antminer consume 5600watt/h, 6 rig consume only 4800watt/h, 30 gpu would cost $7k if not less and with dual mining they can be $3 per gpu a day which is $90 with 30 gpu

[thejaytiesto]

POS-coins are more like exclusive circles of traders while pow is open for everybody even later in the game.

How is this even the case? How can you jump in the mining game in bitcoin anymore? it's centralized in china for a long time so im just wondering how it's possible in your mind to get started with mining in 2017, that's ridiculous.

At the end of the day, in both POS and POW, it's the same, you need to invest millions to have a say in the mining game.

[GetClams.com]

POS-coins are more like exclusive circles of traders while pow is open for everybody even later in the game.

How is this even the case? How can you jump in the mining game in bitcoin anymore? it's centralized in china for a long time so im just wondering how it's possible in your mind to get started with mining in 2017, that's ridiculous.

At the end of the day, in both POS and POW, it's the same, you need to invest millions to have a say in the mining game.

Traditional banks have been more like more like exclusive circles of traders " since there inception. They pay interest on your deposit. Dont see why anybody finds the idea unpalatable.

[douglock]

POW is shit. It damages the whole environment. We should save the natural, not kill it. The environment is very very terrible and and we need to improve within our posibility

[Tash]

These days it is the hype of pos-coins. I thought a thread is needed to show the advantages of POW over POS.
I prefer pow-coins for a number of reasons. Those are:

-POW gives everybody the opportunity to get in on a coin through mining. POS on the other hand favours early adopters. People who come late to the show have a serious disadvantage.
-For the above reason POW-coins are more widely distributed over a longer period of time.
-POW means the creation of coins is decetralized where many POS-coins are mined out within days and weeks which makes flashmining an even greater issue
-POW is time-tested
-POS means high inflation. Of course it is nice to get 100% interest on an asiacoin but that also means the coin is not scarce so its value will after the initial pumps probably decline while the high pos-interests last.

These are the main reasons i prefer POW-coins with a good reward-decrease over highly inflationary, even more experimental pos-coins as an investement.

Please stop thinking pos would be superior to pow which is not the case. POS just makes the rich ones richer while excluding people with no coins or not so much money as well as miners from accumulating the coin. POS-coins are more like exclusive circles of traders while pow is open for everybody even later in the game.

So really, i don't buy into the hype. I think anything over 2% or 3% interest a year is not a good investement even if i would be the one harvesting those interests.
Also decentralized moneycreation over a longer timeperiod is to prefer from an ethical standpoint over a flashming or ipo in the beginning and heavy whale-monopoly thereafter.

love to hear your opinion on the pow vs pos discussion.

You forgot the two most obvious

• There is an unlimited supply of pos coins you going to invest in them all? No successful new pow can be released.
  
  pos only has value because of pow. If Bitcoin would not exist no one would invest in pos

also
http://bitfury.com/content/5-white-papers-research/pos-vs-pow-1.0.2.pdf

[kryptqnick]

POW is shit. It damages the whole environment. We should save the natural, not kill it. The environment is very very terrible and and we need to improve within our posibility

Did you mean PoS being shit? Because PoW is actually what one can call 'natural'. That's how it is with bitcoin and most of altcoins. Some are getting ready for the big change (like ethereum) and are ought to change. I think that neither PoW not PoS kills anything. Miners can start mining something else if a coin changes. And I guess PoS is better at least because there is no useless waste of energy on this thing.

[Gozzy]

Both methods are cost effective , as with POW you spend money on electricity costs in order to mine the block which could end up with an unsuccessful haul or successful. With POS it's the same except you use the funds in your possession which is on the line in contrast to electricity costs & mining equipment. As with the POW the more funds you use could result in a larger reward but also bares an increased risk of losing majority of your funds invested in the POS. Someone beautifully summed up POS, saying as it's basically putting your money where your mouth is.

I'm thinking to mine ethereum asap before the POS comes in , save up some coins until the protocol changes over. Then use the vast amount of eth you've stored to result in more using POS system. But also could the ethereum blockchain split again?, this time one POS and one POW! who knows :p

Great explanation. Also I dont think we would have this scaling  problem with POS becaus the miners and the holders are the same party.

Cheers dude took me awhile to spit it out in a comprehensible form :p 

[investinator]

I prefer PoS as others have said because it removes the inefficiency from the huge electricity usage used for PoW, and both PoS and PoW incentive centralisation, PoW incentivizes centralisation in mining operations while PoS incentivizes centralisation in the form of hoarding.

[Tash]

I prefer PoS as others have said because it removes the inefficiency from the huge electricity usage used for PoW, and both PoS and PoW incentive centralisation, PoW incentivizes centralisation in mining operations while PoS incentivizes centralisation in the form of hoarding.

How did you manage to post without electricity? All the computers running just posting nonsense is an enormous waste of electricity. Did you sell your Mobile cause all the repeater towers consume a lot of power. Did your town, turn of the streetlights, such a waste of electricity. I guess you're also a rawtarian because cooking food is totally unnecessary and unhealthy. Radio you have thrown away a long time ago because every Radio station needs hundreds of thousands of watts to broadcast, what a waste. Quadzilion watts are needed to mine gold, just so you can wear a wedding ring ....................

POW (Bitcoin or any other fair pow coin) is needed to know how much joe's pos coin is worth in relation to john's pos coin or token, a common fair reference point.
Most pos coins are vastly overvalued at this time because millions billions of new pos coins or tokens are still to come. As a matter of fact, most people will have their own pos coin or some xrp style token as a kind of enhanced CV (curriculum vitae) to prove their net worth.
No private person, company, country will ever create a pow coin. Every club, political party, organization.....will have their own non pow coin because it cost little to produce or operate. A raspberry pi is hopelessly overpowerd. Crypto is still in its infancy.
To have the own token will be as normal as having the own email address.