EUR negative interest incoming - BTC panic buys ahead?

[leopard2]

Good day ladies and gentlemen,

ECB President Supermario Draghi has just announced that zero or even negative interest rates are incoming, maybe in June already.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-02/are-negative-interest-rates-in-europes-future

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2014/05/draghis-heavy-hint

There’s a precedent. Denmark, which has its own currency, has kept overnight interest rates negative for some time to discourage an influx of hot money that would drive up the value of the krone and make Danish goods and services uncompetitive in world markets. As reported by Bloomberg News, the Danish central bank’s deposit rate has been below zero since last July. It’s currently a negative 0.1 percent.

What willl happen if people get zero or negative interest on their balances? Cash? Not possible in large quantities, due to legal restrictions.

BTC is well known now, due to all the negative news. THere is no such thing as negative publicity. Panic buys into BTC could happen this year, when the torrent of liquidity seeks escape routes.

Forget China, consider billions of SEPA transfers :-) EUR dump incoming ...............

Cheers
Leo

[1714162530]

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[1714162530]

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[1714162530]

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[DeathAndTaxes]

People won't get negative interest on their checking account balances.   Short term bonds may have negative interest rate.  Still nominal interest rates are meaningless, what really matters is real (adjusted for inflation) interest rates and they have been solidly negative in many countries for some time now.  Anyone in control of the kind of funds necessary to be affected already knows this.  It makes a headline but they have been losing purchasing power on their cash for the better part of a decade now.  I don't see it driving bitcoin adoption.  It won't affect the Dane on the street and large corporations, banks, and other major holders of cash are holding billions of Krone.  They couldn't move that kind of money into Bitcoin without massively driving up the exchange rate.

[E-C.Guru]

I'm just waiting for the stockmarket to CRASH violently, until that happens all economic news are peanuts. Salty and good, at best, but always very small and insignificant.

[Lethn]

I'm just waiting for the stockmarket to CRASH violently, until that happens all economic news are peanuts. Salty and good, at best, but always very small and insignificant.

It always amazes me how the news organisations jump up and down about a 0.4% rise in the global markets, yet Bitcoin and even altcoins get more than 50% on a weekly basis, adding to the embarassment that these 'global' economies should be feeling Hobonickels now officially is probably one of the best places to have some money in if you're looking for a decent interest payment and it pays it on a 10 day basis as well.

I really believe with steps I'm seeing being taken that we could easily see another collapse by the end of this year or sometime next year, they're getting more desperate now even though they're hiding it well, not surprised to see this kind of panic from the ECB.

[counter]

I for one won't rule out the chance of panic buys but at this time I suspect it is to hard to tell what may happen.  Who know what other bad economic news could arise? 
It is always astonishing watching the talking heads on the media put a spin on certain stories in regards to Bitcoins or the stock markets.

[Beliathon]

I really believe with steps I'm seeing being taken that we could easily see another collapse by the end of this year or sometime next year, they're getting more desperate now even though they're hiding it well, not surprised to see this kind of panic from the ECB.

Things get real interesting when you're trying to keep a zombie walking.

Yeah, I'm talking about capitalism.

[Lethn]

lol do people really believe this is capitalism with all the stuff that is going on? It isn't, if it's anything it's corporatism, Bitcoin is capitalism and so are most cryptocurrencies.

[acoindr]

Banker 1: We're inflating as fast as we can! It's not helping the poor.

Banker 2: Kick the machine into reverse also known as inflation warp speed! It will make the rich richer faster and drive up prices. That's sure to help.

[FeedbackLoop]

lol do people really believe this is capitalism with all the stuff that is going on? It isn't, if it's anything it's corporatism, Bitcoin is capitalism and so are most cryptocurrencies.

I prefer "Crony-Creditism" where credit for some is cheaper (negative even) than for others (not to mention multipliable to infinity, via fractional reserve, by some and not by others).  Also, since credit=fiat it can never go down so make sure to pump that bubble ad infinitum and make sure the fiat gets to your buddies (cronies) first!

[Lauda]

I for one won't rule out the chance of panic buys but at this time I suspect it is to hard to tell what may happen.  Who know what other bad economic news could arise? 
It is always astonishing watching the talking heads on the media put a spin on certain stories in regards to Bitcoins or the stock markets.

We can't really know. The event needed for the next spike in the price of Bitcoin could happen any day. I'm not saying that this will get the panic buys into BTC, but it could. Keeping cash is not good anymore, as you can read in that article.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Banker 1: We're inflating as fast as we can! It's not helping the poor.

Banker 2: Kick the machine into reverse also known as inflation warp speed! It will make the rich richer faster and drive up prices. That's sure to help.

On which planet did this conversation happen?  On Earth I have never known a central banker making policies to help the poor.  I am not sure they even know the poors exist.  If they don't want to be poor they should just get more capital like banks do.

[acoindr]

If they don't want to be poor they should just get more capital like banks do.

Good point 

[leopard2]

People won't get negative interest on their checking account balances.   Short term bonds may have negative interest rate.  Still nominal interest rates are meaningless, what really matters is real (adjusted for inflation) interest rates and they have been solidly negative in many countries for some time now.  Anyone in control of the kind of funds necessary to be affected already knows this.  It makes a headline but they have been losing purchasing power on their cash for the better part of a decade now.  I don't see it driving bitcoin adoption.  It won't affect the Dane on the street and large corporations, banks, and other major holders of cash are holding billions of Krone. They couldn't move that kind of money into Bitcoin without massively driving up the exchange rate.

a) you have an IQ of 160+ but most people don't. Most people are too dumb to clean their ass properly. I thus believe it will make all the difference in the world when the nominal interest rate on savings accounts and such, becomes negative. Adjusted for inflation? Most people don't even know what that means. If people see the negative interest deductions on their account, no matter how small, the stampede will start. When Joe and Jane Doe see a -0.01 EUR interest payment in their account it will commence.

b) Danes are not an issue - it is only a small country and this was only done to protect the Krone from EUR inflow. If negative interest is implemented  EUR wide, it will be a whole different ballgame. And your last sentence is what I wanted to imply  

Perhaps todays $400 will be the new $50, what will the new $1200 be? 24x400=9600?

[leopard2]

Proper sequence is always deflationary collapse, followed by hyperinflation

Trouble is you don't know when the collapse starts - gold went from 300 to 1000, then def. collapse to 700 (in 2008) then inflated to 1900

If you stayed in cash waiting for the collapse from 300 to 1000, the collapse to 700 did not do you any good

----> Strategy must be physical investments, hedge against collapse. Are there any options on BTC?

[Biodom]

Banker 1: We're inflating as fast as we can! It's not helping the poor.

Banker 2: Kick the machine into reverse also known as inflation warp speed! It will make the rich richer faster and drive up prices. That's sure to help.

On which planet did this conversation happen?  On Earth I have never known a central banker making policies to help the poor.  I am not sure they even know the poors exist.  If they don't want to be poor they should just get more capital like banks do.

Poor? Overall, I am afraid that we will resemble Elysium (sc-fi flick) at some point.
Bitcoin can democratize the capital movement, but will it cause even higher wealth accumulation in smaller % of the population at the same time?
This is unclear.

[knarzo]

Proper sequence is always deflationary collapse, followed by hyperinflation

Trouble is you don't know when the collapse starts - gold went from 300 to 1000, then def. collapse to 700 (in 2008) then inflated to 1900

If you stayed in cash waiting for the collapse from 300 to 1000, the collapse to 700 did not do you any good

----> Strategy must be physical investments, hedge against collapse. Are there any options on BTC?

Maybe quite soon?

Tax to rise unless HMRC can raid accounts says PM: Cameron insists taxman must be given new powers to seize money

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624775/Tax-rise-unless-HMRC-raid-accounts-says-PM-David-Cameron-insists-taxman-given-new-powers-seize-money.html

[zimmah]

People won't get negative interest on their checking account balances.   Short term bonds may have negative interest rate.  Still nominal interest rates are meaningless, what really matters is real (adjusted for inflation) interest rates and they have been solidly negative in many countries for some time now.  Anyone in control of the kind of funds necessary to be affected already knows this.  It makes a headline but they have been losing purchasing power on their cash for the better part of a decade now.  I don't see it driving bitcoin adoption.  It won't affect the Dane on the street and large corporations, banks, and other major holders of cash are holding billions of Krone. They couldn't move that kind of money into Bitcoin without massively driving up the exchange rate.

a) you have an IQ of 160+ but most people don't. Most people are too dumb to clean their ass properly. I thus believe it will make all the difference in the world when the nominal interest rate on savings accounts and such, becomes negative. Adjusted for inflation? Most people don't even know what that means. If people see the negative interest deductions on their account, no matter how small, the stampede will start. When Joe and Jane Doe see a -0.01 EUR interest payment in their account it will commence.

b) Danes are not an issue - it is only a small country and this was only done to protect the Krone from EUR inflow. If negative interest is implemented  EUR wide, it will be a whole different ballgame. And your last sentence is what I wanted to imply  

Perhaps todays $400 will be the new $50, what will the new $1200 be? 24x400=9600?

most say about 5000~7000.

[zimmah]

Banker 1: We're inflating as fast as we can! It's not helping the poor.

Banker 2: Kick the machine into reverse also known as inflation warp speed! It will make the rich richer faster and drive up prices. That's sure to help.

On which planet did this conversation happen?  On Earth I have never known a central banker making policies to help the poor.  I am not sure they even know the poors exist.  If they don't want to be poor they should just get more capital like banks do.

Poor? Overall, I am afraid that we will resemble Elysium (sc-fi flick) at some point.
Bitcoin can democratize the capital movement, but will it cause even higher wealth accumulation in smaller % of the population at the same time?
This is unclear.

even if it does, the wealth will not stay in the hands of the wealthy like it does now.

Right now the 'game' is rigged because only the rich are allowed to print even more money, while if the poor do it they'll end up in jail.

The game is rigged even more because the poor have to pay a lot of taxes and get almost no support from the government, while the rich are getting tax cuts and all kinds of fancy ways to avoid paying taxes. In fact, most of the tax money goes directly to the rich in the first place, because the 'debt' the nation owes to the rich (since nations 'borrow' money from the rich, whom created the money from thin air, this is the reason why taxes keep increasing while at the same time they give less and less back to the people). In essence the poor pay tax to the rich, while taxes are supposed to do just the opposite! (The rich should pay more so that the poor have at least a decent standard of living).

With bitcoins, such scams will become much harder to pull of, if not impossible.

[cryptnutter]

I'm just waiting for the stockmarket to CRASH violently, until that happens all economic news are peanuts. Salty and good, at best, but always very small and insignificant.

I see the crash coming as well, but there is no telling what that will do to the BTC price. Could go either way really.

[Lauda]

most say about 5000~7000.

Possibly even higher, this might happen if the negative interest comes in a number of countries. This might be the news that Bitcoin has been waiting for. This is why you shouldn't sell your coins.