How can you spend bitcoin if you do not earn bitcoin?

[bitbob82]

Say for example, your daily job pay you fiat on monthly basis, so you got the fiat money to spend,

it is not a good move to use fiat money to buy bitcoin and then spend the bitcoin as it will turn out to be more expensive and ineffective

the only thing i can think of is that you mine bitcoin and then spend the bitcoin you mine, however, this turn out to be ineffective as well due to the fact that difficulty have increased, and you can only mine less and less bitcoin per month

the other way is that you are the early adopter where you got more than 10000 bitcoin to spend , so you just spend it like normal fiat money

however

the 99.99% of population is not the early adopter and I can see no reason why anyone would spend bitcoin , anyone please think of a good idea how can we solve this

[Yakamoto]

Work for those who adopted it...?

Honestly though, instead of working for fiat sell goods or services for Bitcoin. It works. You get BTC/XBT and they get a thing provided for them.

[MicroGuy]

Say for example, your daily job pay you fiat on monthly basis, so you got the fiat money to spend,

it is not a good move to use fiat money to buy bitcoin and then spend the bitcoin as it will turn out to be more expensive and ineffective

the only thing i can think of is that you mine bitcoin and then spend the bitcoin you mine, however, this turn out to be ineffective as well due to the fact that difficulty have increased, and you can only mine less and less bitcoin per month

the other way is that you are the early adopter where you got more than 10000 bitcoin to spend , so you just spend it like normal fiat money

however

the 99.99% of population is not the early adopter and I can see no reason why anyone would spend bitcoin , anyone please think of a good idea how can we solve this

One reason to use Bitcoin is that it's not subject to the control of a central authority who can arbitrarily inflate the money supply.

Therefore, once you convert your fiat into Bitcoin (or other cryptos) you are preserving wealth but trading some convenience by having access to fewer supported merchants. The law of supply and demand dictates that the bitcoin price must increase if mass adoption is successful.

[bitbob82]

Work for those who adopted it...?

Honestly though, instead of working for fiat sell goods or services for Bitcoin. It works. You get BTC/XBT and they get a thing provided for them.

good idea, so if everyone of the 1 million population that currently owning bitcoin start selling stuff for bitcoin, the community of bitcoin will grow and circulation of bitcoin would be more healthy, where by everyone would selling stuff to earn bitcoin and spending bitcoin

[Elwar]

it is not a good move to use fiat money to buy bitcoin and then spend the bitcoin as it will turn out to be more expensive and ineffective

Why?

[nuff]

it is not a good move to use fiat money to buy bitcoin and then spend the bitcoin as it will turn out to be more expensive and ineffective

Why?

simply because you lose more if you spend those bitcoins because they rise in value, unlike fiat which is inflationary. If say today you bought a laptop for 1 btc @450. Tomorrow the price of btc goes up 10% to 495 and the vendor adjusted the btc price accordingly to 0.9 btc. You lose out 0.1 btc, if only you just waited the next day to buy that same laptop but at 0.9btc. Spending btcs will always be a loss because it's deflationary.

[nuff]

Say for example, your daily job pay you fiat on monthly basis, so you got the fiat money to spend,

it is not a good move to use fiat money to buy bitcoin and then spend the bitcoin as it will turn out to be more expensive and ineffective

the only thing i can think of is that you mine bitcoin and then spend the bitcoin you mine, however, this turn out to be ineffective as well due to the fact that difficulty have increased, and you can only mine less and less bitcoin per month

the other way is that you are the early adopter where you got more than 10000 bitcoin to spend , so you just spend it like normal fiat money

however

the 99.99% of population is not the early adopter and I can see no reason why anyone would spend bitcoin , anyone please think of a good idea how can we solve this

the way around it is to change our mindset. Accept the fact that what you're paying for in btc today would be worth more in the future. So you will form the habit to hold off buying things and spending in btcs as long as possible until you absolutely need to. So we won't spend excessively on a whim. Bitcoin is basically anti-consumerism.

[Light]

Why exactly would it be bad to use fiat to buy Bitcoin? Everything has a cost associated and Bitcoin is the same - your pegging a fiat value against it. I wouldn't suggest mining - it needs a reasonable amount of technical knowledge which a layman lacks and it requires capital. Your argument that Bitcoin is deflationary is not necessarily true, if it was we would be continually trending upwards at a small rate rather than sharp spikes and falls.

[nuff]

Why exactly would it be bad to use fiat to buy Bitcoin? Everything has a cost associated and Bitcoin is the same - your pegging a fiat value against it. I wouldn't suggest mining - it needs a reasonable amount of technical knowledge which a layman lacks and it requires capital. Your argument that Bitcoin is deflationary is not necessarily true, if it was we would be continually trending upwards at a small rate rather than sharp spikes and falls.

Bitcoin is fundamentally deflationary by design. Something that is limited in supply with an increasing demand, is deflationary. The spikes and fall do not change that equation, it's just the markets playing, the human factor, not because of its design.

[Elwar]

it is not a good move to use fiat money to buy bitcoin and then spend the bitcoin as it will turn out to be more expensive and ineffective

Why?

simply because you lose more if you spend those bitcoins because they rise in value, unlike fiat which is inflationary. If say today you bought a laptop for 1 btc @450. Tomorrow the price of btc goes up 10% to 495 and the vendor adjusted the btc price accordingly to 0.9 btc. You lose out 0.1 btc, if only you just waited the next day to buy that same laptop but at 0.9btc. Spending btcs will always be a loss because it's deflationary.

So you should exchange your fiat when you get your paycheck to Zimbabwe dollars, lose several percent in value each day. That way when you buy a laptop for 3 trillion Zimbabwe dollars, tomorrow that laptop costs 4 trillion Zimbabwe dollars you gain 1 trillion Zimbabwe dollars for buying the laptop a day early. That way spending Zimbabwe dollars is always a gain because it is inflationary...right?


Or consider last year. On average the price went up by 1% per day. If you convert your $2000 paycheck to bitcoins on Friday and buy a laptop 5 days later the value of your bitcoins have gained 5% or $100 that you would not have gained if you had kept your money in fiat. Sure, every year will not be the same rise of 1% but a rise over time none the less.

So...why would you -not- convert your fiat to bitcoins?

[zetaray]

it is not a good move to use fiat money to buy bitcoin and then spend the bitcoin as it will turn out to be more expensive and ineffective

If your local fiat exchange rate is falling against other major fiat currency. It is a good idea to buy Bitcoin. Purchasing power of Bitcoin will rise compared to your local fiat.

[1369]

so am i buying or selling? my head hurts!

[Light]

Bitcoin is fundamentally deflationary by design. Something that is limited in supply with an increasing demand, is deflationary. The spikes and fall do not change that equation, it's just the markets playing, the human factor, not because of its design.

Your running on the assumption of a continual increase in demand. Despite the best intentions there is always the possibility that Bitcoin fails (harsh government regulation from major countries would be an example) and as such demand falls significantly and we return to previous prices. If the human factor is significant enough to shift the market from where it should be  doesn't it logically follow that even if it is deflationary it may never actually follow the theoretical trend.

Oh and on a side note - I suppose you could always sell goods and services for BTC instead of fiat if you don't want to exchange fiat.

[makebitcoin]

It is a small negative for Bitcoin spending that it deflates. In this scenario your best strategy is to buy and hold onto the Bitcoins. However if merchants bid you a good service and you want it bad you will spend your Bitcoins anyway. So its up to the businesses to give you an incentive to spend bitcoin. One of the many reason I use Bitcoin to spend anyway is because its semi-anonymous and you get really fast payments.

[Elwar]

I tell you what. When you get your paycheck, send me the money. When you want to spend your fiat I will give you money as you spend it.

If I convert it to bitcoins and gain value in the mean time, do not bother yourself with that. You can rest assured that you did not spend your money unwisely.

[Ibistru]

it is not a good move to use fiat money to buy bitcoin and then spend the bitcoin as it will turn out to be more expensive and ineffective

Why?

simply because you lose more if you spend those bitcoins because they rise in value, unlike fiat which is inflationary. If say today you bought a laptop for 1 btc @450. Tomorrow the price of btc goes up 10% to 495 and the vendor adjusted the btc price accordingly to 0.9 btc. You lose out 0.1 btc, if only you just waited the next day to buy that same laptop but at 0.9btc. Spending btcs will always be a loss because it's deflationary.

Compare with the cost of Paypal transaction for buy something and your puzzle is solved.

/thread

[hensi]

Well the only way to spend a bitcoin without earning it in todays time is spamming people, and the other way of using bitcoin is using it for anonymous gamble, gambling with bitcoin is safer and anonymous than gambling with fiat money, so in countries where gambling is illegal, bitcoins could be used for gambling. Maybe these are the only benefits of btc.

[nuff]

it is not a good move to use fiat money to buy bitcoin and then spend the bitcoin as it will turn out to be more expensive and ineffective

Why?

simply because you lose more if you spend those bitcoins because they rise in value, unlike fiat which is inflationary. If say today you bought a laptop for 1 btc @450. Tomorrow the price of btc goes up 10% to 495 and the vendor adjusted the btc price accordingly to 0.9 btc. You lose out 0.1 btc, if only you just waited the next day to buy that same laptop but at 0.9btc. Spending btcs will always be a loss because it's deflationary.

So you should exchange your fiat when you get your paycheck to Zimbabwe dollars, lose several percent in value each day. That way when you buy a laptop for 3 trillion Zimbabwe dollars, tomorrow that laptop costs 4 trillion Zimbabwe dollars you gain 1 trillion Zimbabwe dollars for buying the laptop a day early. That way spending Zimbabwe dollars is always a gain because it is inflationary...right?


Or consider last year. On average the price went up by 1% per day. If you convert your $2000 paycheck to bitcoins on Friday and buy a laptop 5 days later the value of your bitcoins have gained 5% or $100 that you would not have gained if you had kept your money in fiat. Sure, every year will not be the same rise of 1% but a rise over time none the less.

So...why would you -not- convert your fiat to bitcoins?

Yes, if a currency has an inflationary rate as high as zimbabwean dollar, you should spend whatever you have the soonest. I would convert all my fiat to bitcoins if the whole world readily accepts bitcoins and nothing else. But since it's not, the world is still running on an inflationary system that is fiat instead of deflationary system that is Bitcoin. I prefer a deflationary system, where money you have now is worth more later than money you have now worth less later, but, not everyone can get used to a deflationary monetary system.

[nuff]

Bitcoin is fundamentally deflationary by design. Something that is limited in supply with an increasing demand, is deflationary. The spikes and fall do not change that equation, it's just the markets playing, the human factor, not because of its design.

Your running on the assumption of a continual increase in demand. Despite the best intentions there is always the possibility that Bitcoin fails (harsh government regulation from major countries would be an example) and as such demand falls significantly and we return to previous prices. If the human factor is significant enough to shift the market from where it should be  doesn't it logically follow that even if it is deflationary it may never actually follow the theoretical trend.

Oh and on a side note - I suppose you could always sell goods and services for BTC instead of fiat if you don't want to exchange fiat.

The thing with Bitcoin is, it's either adopted into the world as a currency in which case it would be deflationary, or it busts, zero value. Since adoption is growing, then its value will rise, guaranteed. It's not an assumption, it's pretty much binary, 1 or 0.

[miragecash]

Great question you asked. You got me thinking.... Here's the answer to your question: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=608881.msg6726445 .