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Author Topic: MtGox reclaim procedure?  (Read 9528 times)
TheFootMan (OP)
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May 16, 2014, 02:05:22 PM
 #1

First of all, I never had more cash/btc in MtGox than I could afford to lose.. So don't make that an issue please. However. it would always be nice to get it or a part of it back.

If anyone visits mtgox.com now, they will notice that there's a note of bankruptcy claim.

It says that claims can be filed until Nov 28 2014.

Now - there's only one address in there for some Nobuaki lawyer guy.

Now - I have already verified with MtGox, and MtGox knows my balance.

Why on earth should I verify again (Ie. sending copies of identity papers to some unknown lawyers in Tokyo, for all I know it can be an extension of this scam). Of course I can do some research on this, but it's hardly worth my time and effort to spend too much time on it.

In this day and age, why on earth could they not even list an e-mail address? Do we really have to send physical envelopes to Tokyo with out claims ?

And no word about how much is expected to be paid back. It's said there will be a meeting July this year to establish how much funds they have left, and then investigation of claims will not start until Feb 2015. God grief.

Is the law system always this slow?

Can't somone be authorized to fix the whole mess up? Someone the community trusts, then whatever is left can be paid back to the customers, and then the whole site just goes offline and buried permanently?

And whatever happened to the bitcoins and the cash? Afaik millions of dollars were unnaccounted for in cash as well as the missing bitcoins, and it should be easy enough to follow the trails of the dollars, and the bitcoins should be possible to find out about where went as well, both with technical help and investigation by police, questioning the Mtgox bunch, Mark and Gay primarily. Are both of these men still free men, not jailed? I cannot understand that.


So... What amount of papers are needed to file a claim? I did take screenshots of my account - but anyone can fake a screenshot. Will the amounts be checked against MtGox balances, if not, anyone can send in any sort of claim, claiming to holding a large balance with MtGox.

And to my understanding, there was a huge number of account holders at MtGox, and handling every case manually for one or two persons will probably take forever, esp. if there's supposed to be claims and paperwork for every customer as well.

Some automated solution, where a reclaim system is built and all legitimate account holders can log in and create a withdrawal address which will eventually receive a percentage of what can be paid out seems to be the only reasonable way to handle it. I prefer it not being made by Mark (no kidding. Smiley)

If everybody is to send an envelope with papers to that lawyer, it's going to become a fucking mountain.

Anyone know anything more?

- What should a claim contain?
- Where should it be sent?
- Any way of contacting the lawyers digitally?

In this time and age, I can't believe such inefficiency exists. It's already established that atleast 200K BTC is recovered, and if the rest cannot be found, it should be quite possible to find out what happened to it.

Why is this not happening, and for christ sake, is the lawyer appointed even knowledgeable enough to handle this particular experts, is he going to hire expensive IT consultants to to the 'claim'-work? How much will eventually be left after all administrative costs have been paid?

What a mess!



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DrApricot
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May 16, 2014, 04:49:06 PM
 #2

Aren't you making a big assumption, that Mt. Gox, Mark and Company, etc. or the bk lawyer have any control over the remaining assets including the supposedly-found 200,000 btc?

If the bankruptcy is more or less of a sham, and either theft by an insider or government seizure and gag order are to blame for the disappearance, you may be filing a claim with the wrong authorities.

If it is the former, then an appeal to the Tokyo police to help return your stolen bitcoins is in order. Should a government seizure and gag order be responsible, then you would need to file a motion with a court to have your bitcoins returned, assuming you are innocent of any wrong-doing in the matter.

Regarding the bk being a farce, after reading the Wikipedia entry on "Kobayashi Maru", ask yourself whether it is merely a coincidence that the bankruptcy administrator is known as Attorney-at-law Nobuaki Kobayashi. We're talking Star Trek here, folks...
glon
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May 16, 2014, 08:20:47 PM
 #3

While I agree with everything that you said and share your frustration (lost 1.000€ myself), I only see

"The method for filing claims will be published on this site as soon as we are in a situation to announce it. "

on mtgox.com

Where does it say how and until when claims can be filed?

But yeah this whole Gox post-collapse business is a colossal mess and I don't understand how Kepreles is not constantly watched and bombarded by the tech press and bitcoin enthusiasts alike...
BitCoinNutJob
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May 17, 2014, 10:31:24 AM
 #4


No lawyers can help you speed up the process of a claim, everyone is in the same boat.  Our best bet is okcoin comes up with a decent plan to take gox over.
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May 17, 2014, 03:54:32 PM
 #5

The bankruptcy is backed by the Japanese government and they claimed to have found 200,000 bitcoins so if its worth your while claiming back your bitcoins Id do it, a simple letter of demand is what they want, if the amount isn't enough for you to pay for a lawyer just write your own to the best of your ability print out your screen shots from your login to their website of your balance, include your wallet address for the deposit of your coin or bank account details for them to return the equivalent in cash which to me would be around $1000 US per coin which is about when they stopped providing withdrawals.

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DrApricot
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May 17, 2014, 06:04:43 PM
 #6

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The bankruptcy is backed by the Japanese government

This is a very questionable assumption, since the bankruptcy was initiated by Mt. Gox itself, and it has been instrumental in moving the case forward each step of the way including making the final request for liquidation. The court has merely acceded to the filings of the administrator, the inestimable Mr. Nobuaki Kobayashi. Exactly who pulls his strings, and is it merely assumed that he is going to be neutral and unbiased in the matter?

Has anyone actually bothered to ask the Japanese government what their opinion about the Mt. Gox affair is? Maybe you'd be surprised by their answer.  Leaving 127,000, mostly international depositors, dangling in the wind in a Tokyo bankruptcy court is not particularly in the country's national interest. This is especially true when Prime Minister Abe's administration has been trying to enhance Japan's attractiveness as a destination for foreign investors to help boost the economy.
bkava
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May 18, 2014, 02:01:48 AM
 #7

Can anyone actually share experience regarding a submitted claim?

Firstly and most importantly do they respond to confirm receipt?

Secondly do they let you know if something about the claim is incorrect or ill-formed?

Any report on first-hand experience of snail-mail communication with the the lawyer's office given in the notice would be greatly appreciated.
hugoc
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May 18, 2014, 03:47:34 AM
 #8

reclaim is great because it can happen even if everyone is honest.
glon
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May 18, 2014, 08:05:22 AM
 #9

Let me get this straight.... The reclaim instructions are buried somewhere in one of the PDFs posted on mtgox.com and people have to learn about it from a forum? How about the fucking administrator get all the email addresses used to log into Gox and send a fucking notice to the users??
TheFootMan (OP)
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May 18, 2014, 10:54:49 AM
 #10

Let me get this straight.... The reclaim instructions are buried somewhere in one of the PDFs posted on mtgox.com and people have to learn about it from a forum? How about the fucking administrator get all the email addresses used to log into Gox and send a fucking notice to the users??

We can't have that. It would be too elaborate and complicated, and besides, all users would be notified, which would increase the amount of payouts!!! And besides, it's important to create a lot of paper work, to fill up all those lawyer and clerk hours, so everything can drag out in traditional lawyer/curt/law style.

Efficiency, justice and honest communication, what planet are you from? We can't have that! It's too complicated!
glon
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May 18, 2014, 01:36:34 PM
 #11

OK but seriously, where exactly are these reclaim instructions??
Massimo80
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May 18, 2014, 02:18:53 PM
 #12

OK but seriously, where exactly are these reclaim instructions??

They aren't anywhere, this thread is just FUD. The only official statement thus far is "they will be published later".
thelema93
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May 18, 2014, 02:54:10 PM
 #13

either get a lawyer and file a claim (if you have enough money) or....

forget about it.

bkava
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May 18, 2014, 03:34:11 PM
 #14

Hmm. The FAQ released on the same day on pg 4 does say:

"We will disclose the necessary information for the creditors through the Company’s
website later, and detailed information for the filing of proofs of claims, including the form of
the filing document, the method of filling in such document and the process of the filing will
also be disclosed through the Company’s website at a later date."

But the creditors' meeting is on July 23rd, only two months away. So it isn't FUD to wonder where the hell those forms are.

Does anyone have any information about when the claim forms will be released?






OK but seriously, where exactly are these reclaim instructions??

They aren't anywhere, this thread is just FUD. The only official statement thus far is "they will be published later".

DrApricot
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May 18, 2014, 03:47:50 PM
 #15

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But the creditors' meeting is on July 23rd, only two months away. So it isn't FUD to wonder where the hell those forms are.

Good point. Perhaps things are not quite as they seem with good old Mr. Kobayashi (Maru?) Wink
Massimo80
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May 18, 2014, 05:04:41 PM
 #16

But the creditors' meeting is on July 23rd, only two months away. So it isn't FUD to wonder where the hell those forms are.

It surely is FUD to say "you have to fill your forms NOW or you will get nothing". There are no cleverly-hidden forms to fill, the exact procedure to file claims has simply not been published yet.

Quote
Does anyone have any information about when the claim forms will be released?

Nothing else has officially been said after the last published statement. Looks like the only thing to do is wait (as usual with Mt.Gox).
TheFootMan (OP)
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May 19, 2014, 08:46:36 AM
 #17

OK but seriously, where exactly are these reclaim instructions??

They aren't anywhere, this thread is just FUD. The only official statement thus far is "they will be published later".





It is linked from mtgox.com

It's under Press releases and announcements:
2014-04-24(002): 破産手続開始決定書 / Bankruptcy proceedings written decision

TheFootMan (OP)
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May 19, 2014, 08:50:18 AM
 #18

But on a serious note:

Everything about this case is classic scam tactics, always stalling.

The customer details are available to MtGox, and automated reclaim systems/payout systems is trivial to implement.

Perhaps we all should write stern letters to Japans respective embassies in our home countries, expressing concern about the lax attitude by Japan in regards to resolving these issues.

If I had millions at stake, I would've ruffled my feathers quite seriously, but I have only small fry, so it's a question about how much I should care about the entire issue. That being said, I would've loved for everyone to stay together on this one, but seriously, it would not take much time or money spent before I'm running into the negative in this case.
DrApricot
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May 19, 2014, 09:48:26 AM
 #19

Quote
Perhaps we all should write stern letters to Japans respective embassies in our home countries, expressing concern about the lax attitude by Japan in regards to resolving these issues.
The Japanese government has everything to lose, and nothing to gain, by allowing Mt. Gox's liquidation to proceed. Under those circumstances then, one can only assume that everything possible is already being done to resolve this matter.
glon
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May 19, 2014, 10:27:45 AM
 #20

OK but seriously, where exactly are these reclaim instructions??

They aren't anywhere, this thread is just FUD. The only official statement thus far is "they will be published later".





It is linked from mtgox.com

It's under Press releases and announcements:
2014-04-24(002): 破産手続開始決定書 / Bankruptcy proceedings written decision



Those are NOT reclaim instructions.
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