15K BTC Wall at $6.00 - Real or Fake?

[bittenbob]

Personally I think the wall at $6.00 is another example of shameful manipulation. I just noticed it myself but without a test it is hard to say if it is real or fake. If someone were really trying to sell that many coins at that price a wall is not the way to do it. The only thing a wall of the magnitude achieves is a drop in price and for that reason I question its reality. This might actually be a sign that the a manipulator is getting ready for another big short squeeze.

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[vokain]

your serve

[teflone]

Its a braindead move.. but I do see signs of it going up in the short term..

[buck92]

I think what people also have to remember when dealing with these types of 'walls' is that it is very likely that more then one person made asks at $6.00. I assume you are using Clark Moody for your real-time data? Clark Moody combines bids of the same value so that they look like huge walls placed by one person while in reality it is simply a price point which people chose to sell their BTC at. Think about human psychology, we like nice round, even numbers because they are aesthetically/psychologically pleasing; which is also why when I make a bid or ask I use this fact to my advantage.

While fake walls can be a product of manipulation, I believe that in most instances it can be explained in other ways....anyways just my 2 cents.

[RyNinDaCleM]

It's been growing since it went up. When I first saw it, it about 10k. Before that, it was a 5k wall that didn't seem so out of place at the time.

I think what people also have to remember when dealing with these types of 'walls' is that it is very likely that more then one person made asks at $6.00. I assume you are using Clark Moody for your real-time data? Clark Moody combines bids of the same value so that they look like huge walls placed by one person while in reality it is simply a price point which people chose to sell their BTC at. Think about human psychology, we like nice round, even numbers because they are aesthetically/psychologically pleasing; which is also why when I make a bid or ask I use this fact to my advantage.

While fake walls can be a product of manipulation, I believe that in most instances it can be explained in other ways....anyways just my 2 cents.

The thing is, it can, in many cases, be put up, or removed in one click. So unless they have impeccable timing, they are usually one player. At least the majority of said wall.

[teflone]

Nope, this one disappeared from a bit higher, and was cranked down to 6.

As in an identical amount lowered from higher in the asks, to lower in the asks, same amount..

[impulse]

I saw this wall go up today while the price was crashing, it was smaller then but it went up in an instant.

[buck92]

I realize they can be taken down and moved very quickly, I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention to that price point. Anyone know if you can look at the full MtGox order book somewhere? I'd be interested in taking a look at it. BTW the wall is under 12K btc now.

Lemme refine my thought process further for academic sake...What if the sell wall was moved as a reaction to market movements? Perhaps traders had a feeling a downturn was coming and needed to liquidate their BTC into dollars to avoid losses so they lowered their ask. While I might have been wrong in this instance, I do stand by my thoughts on bids/sells congregating around nice even numbers.  I mean look at the orders at 5.4 and 5.2 you see walls the size of the one at 6.0, I truly believe there is a reason for this and it is not necessarily manipulation.

[RyNinDaCleM]

Anyone know if you can look at the full MtGox order book somewhere? I'd be interested in taking a look at it.

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD_depth.html

[phorensic]

The thing is, it can, in many cases, be put up, or removed in one click. So unless they have impeccable timing, they are usually one player. At least the majority of said wall.

I'm pretty sure the big walls are mostly built by bots.  I wouldn't want to be responsible for manually typing and clicking to put up or pull down a huge order.  I would rely on a bot to do it in milliseconds.

[RyNinDaCleM]

The thing is, it can, in many cases, be put up, or removed in one click. So unless they have impeccable timing, they are usually one player. At least the majority of said wall.

I'm pretty sure the big walls are mostly built by bots.  I wouldn't want to be responsible for manually typing and clicking to put up or pull down a huge order.  I would rely on a bot to do it in milliseconds.

Heh, I don't know if I'd trust a bot to do it.
If the algo is just slightly off, that's one potentially expensive mistake.

[phorensic]

The thing is, it can, in many cases, be put up, or removed in one click. So unless they have impeccable timing, they are usually one player. At least the majority of said wall.

I'm pretty sure the big walls are mostly built by bots.  I wouldn't want to be responsible for manually typing and clicking to put up or pull down a huge order.  I would rely on a bot to do it in milliseconds.

Heh, I don't know if I'd trust a bot to do it.
If the algo is just slightly off, that's one potentially expensive mistake.

Not really an algorithm necessary to place the order. There could be a simple programming statement for when to cancel the order.  And yeah, placing the order could be done manually.  However, I wouldn't want to stay awake for 24 hours a day watching the price and then see it spike and go OH CRAP, cancel order!! Then find out my session on Gox was expired.  Then have to log in.  Then click the cancel button.  See what I mean?  The bot could do all that in 50 milliseconds.

[buck92]

Anyone know if you can look at the full MtGox order book somewhere? I'd be interested in taking a look at it.

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD_depth.html

Thank you for that link it has been enlightening.  So it looks like there is a total of 22 bids at the 6.0 price point with one ask at 11,907BTC, looks like you guys were right. Ahh and the young grasshopper continues to learn thanks again!

[RyNinDaCleM]

The thing is, it can, in many cases, be put up, or removed in one click. So unless they have impeccable timing, they are usually one player. At least the majority of said wall.

I'm pretty sure the big walls are mostly built by bots.  I wouldn't want to be responsible for manually typing and clicking to put up or pull down a huge order.  I would rely on a bot to do it in milliseconds.

Heh, I don't know if I'd trust a bot to do it.
If the algo is just slightly off, that's one potentially expensive mistake.

Not really an algorithm necessary to place the order. There could be a simple programming statement for when to cancel the order.  And yeah, placing the order could be done manually.  However, I wouldn't want to stay awake for 24 hours a day watching the price and then see it spike and go OH CRAP, cancel order!! Then find out my session on Gox was expired.  Then have to log in.  Then click the cancel button.  See what I mean?  The bot could do all that in 50 milliseconds.

Good points! Especially the Gox timeout!

To do:

• Bot to cancel orders, depending on momentum/speed...Check

[bittenbob]

It has dropped down to 12K. Either they thought 15K was too much or someone didn't want to leave that ask exposed overnight.

[Vandroiy]

That ask was still there when there was little offered underneath. Also, what is a fake wall? Another big trader can fill these orders in a large buy, so there is no such a thing as a "fake wall".

The only thing that's shameful here is traders insulting everything they see by throwing around accusations of manipulation. Whoever that trader is, he's not exactly hiding his moves, so it's even more ridiculous to speak of manipulation. Using a bot that tries to look like hundreds of people, that would be manipulation.

[Serge]

one has to be extremely careful in this tiny insane market, it is worst than wild west except there are no guns this time

the whale had showed us he has roughly 500k USD and at least 50k BTC, and who know how much more is behind a curtain. he has market cornered from both sides. primary goal is to take profits, what i don't think he is interested in doing is causing huge swings and setting panic in either direction (or maybe doesn't have enough of what it takes to achieve that)
if we go below $5 testing $4 i think we will be at square one testing our lowest lows again and there will be another few month at least to get back at where we now. if we go too fast up it would be just as risky because we could still end up back at square one again

i wish the market wasn't so emotional, but since Bitcoin is completely new and phenomenal 'thing' it will take at least few years before market matures and settles down on a straight path and for that i don't think we'll see any real economy based on it any time soon

[elux]

Isn't the one at $5.40 starting to look more relevant? Also $5.20 if/after that one goes poof.

[Dutch Merganser]

Isn't the one at $5.40 starting to look more relevant? Also $5.20 if/after that one goes poof.

I agree, the lower walls are looking much more like sport at this point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJaSBsJyOoM

[sgbett]

More to point is the BTC10k wall at 5.40 real. I guess we'll see soon....