[ANN][HOC] ★ HouseofCoins CONFIRMED SCAM!

[Xardas2014]

andyatcrux it will take more than just me to get  http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx involved. But with enough complaints filed they will look into it

[andyatcrux]

andyatcrux it will take more than just me to get  http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx involved. But with enough complaints filed they will look into it

If anyone has that investor's list than we can send a PM out with this link, asking everyone to fill it out and then bump this thread. I would also be interested in calling Josh Davenport and finding out if he is Bitoffer or is just some poor schmuck who's name was used. With knowledge that there could be a real repercussions he may decided to come out and say "I was just taking a break guys!" Then we can all proceed to vote for everyone getting a refund who wants out and ask that the BTC be put into escrow.

Yeah. That will never happen, but one can hope. This guy "seemed" much more trustworthy at first but I guess it should not be too surprising given the fact that the coin is inspired by a fictional corrupt politician.

Rules? Pfft.  

[Xardas2014]

TBH he has much more problems than what you can imagine. I was contacted by the proverbial friend of a friend of a friend that BitOffer was in a heap of trouble with a certain motorcycle gang. I was advised to pull out and tried to do so. Although I have had no further contact with them, I'm quite sure they are still watching him....and probably this thread.  If what was told to me is true, BitOffer better pray the FBI steps in quickly. Ba....o's don't fuck around.

[a7594li]

I am very interested in, how can I buy

[Xardas2014]

I am very interested in, how can I buy

I have no clue why you would want to buy a scam coin, but it is on Bittrex exchange.

[platorin]

Jesus, when will all those scams end?

[Jacqul]

The problem is with every next scam the confidence and trust in the whole system becomes eroded until a "scam" is seen as normal and being actually trustworthy as abnormal.

In terms of weighing up risk with this IPO, looking at BitOffer's previous posts and his plans and communication prior to the launch: I think he seriously wanted to give this a go and it actually had a good chance of working out. If it worked the way it was planned then it would almost certainly have been a great investment.

The only reasons I can see for him to bail now:

1. Lack of integrity. He could not see how to carry through with this, it became too difficult to be accountable and he decided to take the "easy way" out. This way everyone ends up losing money in the long run though, even BitOffer.

2. Seriously needing money. If he is in some financial trouble at this moment then this might seem the way to go but it is extremely shortsighted.

A lot of people put time into this and worse than the money wasted is the effort and discussions.

Xardas, we were all basically in the same position until we could get BitOffer to put the BTC etc in escrow. There was a vote running with 100% of people voting to do that immediately (obviously) and I think that is why he decided it is now or never. The way things played out does not quite make sense though. If he wanted to scam people for money surely there would be an easier way than this convoluted crap.

[andyatcrux]

The problem is with every next scam the confidence and trust in the whole system becomes eroded until a "scam" is seen as normal and being actually trustworthy as abnormal.

In terms of weighing up risk with this IPO, looking at BitOffer's previous posts and his plans and communication prior to the launch: I think he seriously wanted to give this a go and it actually had a good chance of working out. If it worked the way it was planned then it would almost certainly have been a great investment.

The only reasons I can see for him to bail now:

1. Lack of integrity. He could not see how to carry through with this, it became too difficult to be accountable and he decided to take the "easy way" out. This way everyone ends up losing money in the long run though, even BitOffer.

2. Seriously needing money. If he is in some financial trouble at this moment then this might seem the way to go but it is extremely shortsighted.

A lot of people put time into this and worse than the money wasted is the effort and discussions.

Xardas, we were all basically in the same position until we could get BitOffer to put the BTC etc in escrow. There was a vote running with 100% of people voting to do that immediately (obviously) and I think that is why he decided it is now or never. The way things played out does not quite make sense though. If he wanted to scam people for money surely there would be an easier way than this convoluted crap.

Yeah it does seem like this was a spur of the moment decision that he made and had not originally intended to. All the same though. In the end he is a thief. Escrow for the HOC was provided but now all we have is some coins. Should we bother to do anything with them or let it die? A lot of "IPO" coins on here are nothing more than the dev giving you some coins, with no promise of using the BTC collectively. This one just promised more.

[Jacqul]

That is true.
If this was the first of its kind I would be impressed and happy.
The thing that made HOC different was the business side of things but I guess the rest of it is still there. It is a functioning cryptocurrency.

[elviselvis101]

The problem is with every next scam the confidence and trust in the whole system becomes eroded until a "scam" is seen as normal and being actually trustworthy as abnormal.

In terms of weighing up risk with this IPO, looking at BitOffer's previous posts and his plans and communication prior to the launch: I think he seriously wanted to give this a go and it actually had a good chance of working out. If it worked the way it was planned then it would almost certainly have been a great investment.

The only reasons I can see for him to bail now:

1. Lack of integrity. He could not see how to carry through with this, it became too difficult to be accountable and he decided to take the "easy way" out. This way everyone ends up losing money in the long run though, even BitOffer.

2. Seriously needing money. If he is in some financial trouble at this moment then this might seem the way to go but it is extremely shortsighted.

A lot of people put time into this and worse than the money wasted is the effort and discussions.

Xardas, we were all basically in the same position until we could get BitOffer to put the BTC etc in escrow. There was a vote running with 100% of people voting to do that immediately (obviously) and I think that is why he decided it is now or never. The way things played out does not quite make sense though. If he wanted to scam people for money surely there would be an easier way than this convoluted crap.

Yeah it does seem like this was a spur of the moment decision that he made and had not originally intended to. All the same though. In the end he is a thief. Escrow for the HOC was provided but now all we have is some coins. Should we bother to do anything with them or let it die? A lot of "IPO" coins on here are nothing more than the dev giving you some coins, with no promise of using the BTC collectively. This one just promised more.

I did not read up on the HOC project. An idea; A coin Parliament, that New coin dev´s could go to and get some kind of "stamp of approval" / certification so all coin interested people would have a much better idea of witch coin to mine/buy/support. The logo you have is great, the coins can be used to buy for the certification. I know its not a good reputation at the moment but sometimes great things can rise from bad situations. Just had the idea that all of you have been around...

[stompix]

Jesus, when will all those scams end?

Never.
As long as there are people looking to make cash out of coins there will be people trying to lure them and scam them.

And with the rising interest in cypto coins the scams on this forum are piling up more and more.

[elviselvis101]

Jesus, when will all those scams end?

Never.
As long as there are people looking to make cash out of coins there will be people trying to lure them and scam them.

And with the rising interest in cypto coins the scams on this forum are piling up more and more.

The timing for a kind of a certification is perfect, chance to make something good out of a bad situation.
Going to be a lot of work and normally the first thing you wanna do when faced with a loos is get far away from it.

[xkdxdavis10]

to be honest I got rid of my HOC, now that I see the big picture I don't think they where worth holding....


I would love to take the idea of HOC and run with it, I would have all the btc put in a escrow service from the beginning. Unfortunatly I have no clue how to make a coin....


but what is this certification?

[anderaga]

Anyone want to start a "Get Rich Slow" scheme?

The idea of HOC (at least the way I understood it) was very good, and I firmly believe that someone will eventually take the lessons learned from HOC and move them forward in a venture with a true possibility for success.  There were definitely some problems with HOC that could easily be avoided in the next attempt. 

HOC was too loosely defined when we bought into the idea and as such we all bought in with our own ideas in mind as to what HOC really was.  Unfortunately, this meant that there were many different factions all believing that their definition of HOC was the correct one and could not understand why others seemed to be spending time on needless activities instead of focusing on the things that needed to be done.  It took some time before it dawned on me that there appeared to many of us that we were not ever getting started while to others it appeared that too many were not on board with the plan they were trying to execute.

Although there were far more than two differing opinions as to what exactly HOC even was,  I believe on a base level we could be broken into 2 separate camps...


(1.) Those that believed that HOC is mostly about the coin and that any resulting business would have to arise from a highly valued HOC price.

     These people wanted to create a media buzz through promotion of the coin to attract additional investors and then possibly build a business if successful in creating a high price, They did not understand why there was so much talk about business projects instead of first focusing on ways to promote the coin.

(2.) Those that believed that HOC was mostly about the business and that the HOC price would be driven by the success and/or failure of the business.
   
     These people wanted to create a successful organization that would attract investors by demonstrating that they had a sound business model in place and drive the price of the coin by creating a desire to buy into part ownership of a successful organization. They did not understand why people were placing so much focus on promoting the coin instead of creating the base from which to drive the future price of the coin.

At this point, I believe we can all agree that the plan outlined in the first camp had completely run it's course and did not succeed.  I believe that many of the smaller investors who were part of the first camp had already dumped and ran.  I also believe based upon some the posts that the initial management positions of HOC were all occupied by the folks who had always been in the first camp which is why the folks in camp 2 felt so completly alone and frustrated.   


In case you hadn't guessed, I was firmly in camp 2 and had from the start been somewhat in awe of the possibilities that could be harnessed by bringing so many talented people together, each with their own unique specialties working towards the creation of a wildly successful organization. 

If anyone ever starts this type of venture with a clearer vision of what the end game looks like and is completely upfront about the fact that we would be creating a business first and that the coin is secondary to the business I believe they could probably get the correct people (with a common goal) on board to begin with.  It would also be good if the basic framework for an original company charter/constitution were already defined and posted describing the basic guidelines the company was going to operate under the day after the IPO release.  Having a working voting system and date and time of the initial scheduled meeting(s) to discuss and vote on the original agenda items would also be useful to ensure that the momentum was not lost during the confusion of nobody having a clue where to even begin following the IPO release.  Providing the initial structure that everyone who invests agrees too from the beginning would allow things to get started right away.

I am probably not that person, but if anyone with better leadership and/or organizational qualities wants to take a chance at starting this type of venture off the correct way please let me know as I would like to be a part of it.

I am very confident that this idea will eventually be successful if everyone goes into it with the understanding that what we have is simply an idea with a relativly small initial investment that will take quite a lot of time, planning, volunteer effort, and reinvestment of initial profits before it can get off the ground and generate any meaningful returns for any of the investors.  I do however believe that we could send the price of of the coin up in the short term if we could only demonstrate that we have a firm foundation and a workable plan for moving forward.  In the longer term, I would look for payoffs both in the income produced by the business as well as a wildly higher coin price stemming from the success of the organization.  Yes I do envision riches, but in my vision that comes a few years down the road and is much more sustainable over the long term.

So you ask, knowing what I know now would I ever invest in this type of venture again with a bunch of people I have never even met?

Hell YES!!

I would however want ensure that there were some guiding principals in place first.

[illiki23]

Anyone want to start a "Get Rich Slow" scheme?

The idea of HOC (at least the way I understood it) was very good, and I firmly believe that someone will eventually take the lessons learned from HOC and move them forward in a venture with a true possibility for success.  There were definitely some problems with HOC that could easily be avoided in the next attempt. 

HOC was too loosely defined when we bought into the idea and as such we all bought in with our own ideas in mind as to what HOC really was.  Unfortunately, this meant that there were many different factions all believing that their definition of HOC was the correct one and could not understand why others seemed to be spending time on needless activities instead of focusing on the things that needed to be done.  It took some time before it dawned on me that there appeared to many of us that we were not ever getting started while to others it appeared that too many were not on board with the plan they were trying to execute.

Although there were far more than two differing opinions as to what exactly HOC even was,  I believe on a base level we could be broken into 2 separate camps...


(1.) Those that believed that HOC is mostly about the coin and that any resulting business would have to arise from a highly valued HOC price.

     These people wanted to create a media buzz through promotion of the coin to attract additional investors and then possibly build a business if successful in creating a high price, They did not understand why there was so much talk about business projects instead of first focusing on ways to promote the coin.

(2.) Those that believed that HOC was mostly about the business and that the HOC price would be driven by the success and/or failure of the business.
   
     These people wanted to create a successful organization that would attract investors by demonstrating that they had a sound business model in place and drive the price of the coin by creating a desire to buy into part ownership of a successful organization. They did not understand why people were placing so much focus on promoting the coin instead of creating the base from which to drive the future price of the coin.

At this point, I believe we can all agree that the plan outlined in the first camp had completely run it's course and did not succeed.  I believe that many of the smaller investors who were part of the first camp had already dumped and ran.  I also believe based upon some the posts that the initial management positions of HOC were all occupied by the folks who had always been in the first camp which is why the folks in camp 2 felt so completly alone and frustrated.   


In case you hadn't guessed, I was firmly in camp 2 and had from the start been somewhat in awe of the possibilities that could be harnessed by bringing so many talented people together, each with their own unique specialties working towards the creation of a wildly successful organization. 

If anyone ever starts this type of venture with a clearer vision of what the end game looks like and is completely upfront about the fact that we would be creating a business first and that the coin is secondary to the business I believe they could probably get the correct people (with a common goal) on board to begin with.  It would also be good if the basic framework for an original company charter/constitution were already defined and posted describing the basic guidelines the company was going to operate under the day after the IPO release.  Having a working voting system and date and time of the initial scheduled meeting(s) to discuss and vote on the original agenda items would also be useful to ensure that the momentum was not lost during the confusion of nobody having a clue where to even begin following the IPO release.  Providing the initial structure that everyone who invests agrees too from the beginning would allow things to get started right away.

I am probably not that person, but if anyone with better leadership and/or organizational qualities wants to take a chance at starting this type of venture off the correct way please let me know as I would like to be a part of it.

I am very confident that this idea will eventually be successful if everyone goes into it with the understanding that what we have is simply an idea with a relativly small initial investment that will take quite a lot of time, planning, volunteer effort, and reinvestment of initial profits before it can get off the ground and generate any meaningful returns for any of the investors.  I do however believe that we could send the price of of the coin up in the short term if we could only demonstrate that we have a firm foundation and a workable plan for moving forward.  In the longer term, I would look for payoffs both in the income produced by the business as well as a wildly higher coin price stemming from the success of the organization.  Yes I do envision riches, but in my vision that comes a few years down the road and is much more sustainable over the long term.

So you ask, knowing what I know now would I ever invest in this type of venture again with a bunch of people I have never even met?

Hell YES!!

I would however want ensure that there were some guiding principals in place first.

One big problem was the failure to implement even an ad-hoc voting system.

The coin was always business oriented but a voting system would have allowed it to find a more coherent path.

I am not sure how much it would help but we could use some of our house coins as incentive to set up a voting system, and from there things like multipool and such.  We have half the coins as house members...

[andyatcrux]

Anyone want to start a "Get Rich Slow" scheme?

The idea of HOC (at least the way I understood it) was very good, and I firmly believe that someone will eventually take the lessons learned from HOC and move them forward in a venture with a true possibility for success.  There were definitely some problems with HOC that could easily be avoided in the next attempt.  

HOC was too loosely defined when we bought into the idea and as such we all bought in with our own ideas in mind as to what HOC really was.  Unfortunately, this meant that there were many different factions all believing that their definition of HOC was the correct one and could not understand why others seemed to be spending time on needless activities instead of focusing on the things that needed to be done.  It took some time before it dawned on me that there appeared to many of us that we were not ever getting started while to others it appeared that too many were not on board with the plan they were trying to execute.

Although there were far more than two differing opinions as to what exactly HOC even was,  I believe on a base level we could be broken into 2 separate camps...


(1.) Those that believed that HOC is mostly about the coin and that any resulting business would have to arise from a highly valued HOC price.

     These people wanted to create a media buzz through promotion of the coin to attract additional investors and then possibly build a business if successful in creating a high price, They did not understand why there was so much talk about business projects instead of first focusing on ways to promote the coin.

(2.) Those that believed that HOC was mostly about the business and that the HOC price would be driven by the success and/or failure of the business.
  
     These people wanted to create a successful organization that would attract investors by demonstrating that they had a sound business model in place and drive the price of the coin by creating a desire to buy into part ownership of a successful organization. They did not understand why people were placing so much focus on promoting the coin instead of creating the base from which to drive the future price of the coin.

At this point, I believe we can all agree that the plan outlined in the first camp had completely run it's course and did not succeed.  I believe that many of the smaller investors who were part of the first camp had already dumped and ran.  I also believe based upon some the posts that the initial management positions of HOC were all occupied by the folks who had always been in the first camp which is why the folks in camp 2 felt so completly alone and frustrated.    


In case you hadn't guessed, I was firmly in camp 2 and had from the start been somewhat in awe of the possibilities that could be harnessed by bringing so many talented people together, each with their own unique specialties working towards the creation of a wildly successful organization.  

If anyone ever starts this type of venture with a clearer vision of what the end game looks like and is completely upfront about the fact that we would be creating a business first and that the coin is secondary to the business I believe they could probably get the correct people (with a common goal) on board to begin with.  It would also be good if the basic framework for an original company charter/constitution were already defined and posted describing the basic guidelines the company was going to operate under the day after the IPO release.  Having a working voting system and date and time of the initial scheduled meeting(s) to discuss and vote on the original agenda items would also be useful to ensure that the momentum was not lost during the confusion of nobody having a clue where to even begin following the IPO release.  Providing the initial structure that everyone who invests agrees too from the beginning would allow things to get started right away.

I am probably not that person, but if anyone with better leadership and/or organizational qualities wants to take a chance at starting this type of venture off the correct way please let me know as I would like to be a part of it.

I am very confident that this idea will eventually be successful if everyone goes into it with the understanding that what we have is simply an idea with a relativly small initial investment that will take quite a lot of time, planning, volunteer effort, and reinvestment of initial profits before it can get off the ground and generate any meaningful returns for any of the investors.  I do however believe that we could send the price of of the coin up in the short term if we could only demonstrate that we have a firm foundation and a workable plan for moving forward.  In the longer term, I would look for payoffs both in the income produced by the business as well as a wildly higher coin price stemming from the success of the organization.  Yes I do envision riches, but in my vision that comes a few years down the road and is much more sustainable over the long term.

So you ask, knowing what I know now would I ever invest in this type of venture again with a bunch of people I have never even met?

Hell YES!!

I would however want ensure that there were some guiding principals in place first.

One big problem was the failure to implement even an ad-hoc voting system.

The coin was always business oriented but a voting system would have allowed it to find a more coherent path.

I am not sure how much it would help but we could use some of our house coins as incentive to set up a voting system, and from there things like multipool and such.  We have half the coins as house members...

It would be nice to do something with the coins but who is willing to take the reigns and drive these proposed ideas? I am on board and so would most others, since their coins would be worth nothing otherwise. Hell, if Xardas wanted to join in we could raise enough for him to get a proportional share (probably 40 bucks worth now but hey).

[KoinFoundation]

bitoffer[he no longer uses that name] asked me if i wanted to take over the hoc coin. he said he can give me twitter,bitcointallk,domain ownership. I did some wallet work for him and some other things. I told him it does not look like there are enough people interested to try and bring it back to life. If someone is going to take over hoc it needs to be someone who is passionate about the coin, and im probably not the right person for the task.

[Jacqul]

bitoffer[he no longer uses that name] asked me if i wanted to take over the hoc coin. he said he can give me twitter,bitcointallk,domain ownership. I did some wallet work for him and some other things. I told him it does not look like there are enough people interested to try and bring it back to life. If someone is going to take over hoc it needs to be someone who is passionate about the coin, and im probably not the right person for the task.

The crux of the matter is the coinbank. What has he done with the BTC that everyone invested. This was never supposed to be his for the taking. If he will transfer the BTC to someone else or put it in escrow then I am sure interest in HOC will return immediately and we could continue where we left off.

[KoinFoundation]

bitoffer[he no longer uses that name] asked me if i wanted to take over the hoc coin. he said he can give me twitter,bitcointallk,domain ownership. I did some wallet work for him and some other things. I told him it does not look like there are enough people interested to try and bring it back to life. If someone is going to take over hoc it needs to be someone who is passionate about the coin, and im probably not the right person for the task.

The crux of the matter is the coinbank. What has he done with the BTC that everyone invested. This was never supposed to be his for the taking. If he will transfer the BTC to someone else or put it in escrow then I am sure interest in HOC will return immediately and we could continue where we left off.

he did not say he would transfer me the coinbank. i think he would have mentioned that if he intended to. he sent this message to me awhile ago and im just now getting around to seeing it. I'm probably going to pass, but i can let him know if someone else is interested.

[Jacqul]

bitoffer[he no longer uses that name] asked me if i wanted to take over the hoc coin. he said he can give me twitter,bitcointallk,domain ownership. I did some wallet work for him and some other things. I told him it does not look like there are enough people interested to try and bring it back to life. If someone is going to take over hoc it needs to be someone who is passionate about the coin, and im probably not the right person for the task.

The crux of the matter is the coinbank. What has he done with the BTC that everyone invested. This was never supposed to be his for the taking. If he will transfer the BTC to someone else or put it in escrow then I am sure interest in HOC will return immediately and we could continue where we left off.

he did not say he would transfer me the coinbank. i think he would have mentioned that if he intended to. he sent this message to me awhile ago and im just now getting around to seeing it. I'm probably going to pass, but i can let him know if someone else is interested.

Without the coinbank, HOC is just a fraud and scam perpetrated by BitOffer. In your reply to him please mention to him that he has now joined the ranks of all the people who make the world a crappier place rather than a better place to live in. Good riddance. For a moment I was thinking that my initial assessment of Bitoffer as someone with vision and integrity might be right after all.

Now I am ashamed of my support of BitOffer and would like to apologize to everyone for the initial excitement that I shared about this project, especially if it influenced anyone into joining.