Total number of bitcoins will DECREASE

[jonald_fyookball]

What is then, the smallest theoretical unit by
which to measure temperature?  

Does that question even make sense?

The concept of temperature is a human abstraction.  A useful definition for temperature is:

   "Temperature is the thing that's the same for two objects, after they've been in contact long enough."  [1]

Physicists then build up mathematical models on top of this definition (and other definitions) that explain what we observe in nature--models such as Boltzmann Factors, the Equipartition Theorem, and even things like the Bose-Einstein and Fermi-Dirac distributions.  But the crazy thing is that none of the parameters of physics (temperature, force, energy, etc) are real in the sense that the computer I am typing on is real.  They are all just useful abstractions that help us explain what we see in nature.  


Jonald: purchase the book "Feynman Lectures on Computation" by R.P. Feynman.  It is fantastic, it will answer a lot of your questions, and it will give you a bunch of new ideas!


[1] DV Schroeder, "Introduction to Thermal Physics," Addison-Wesley Longman, 2000.  

Dude, I love Feynman!  I read 2 or 3 of his books but not that one...thanks for the suggestion.

Cool thoughts too.

The reason i was thinking about temperature is because Landauer's principle
seems to ultimately rest on there being a discrete measurement for it,
and I wanted to know what that is.

[BitcoinTraders]

I'm a bitcoin investor. But I know it can be done. In about a few hundred years, at least, up to a few billion years.

Yes it's true that everything can be happen but i think that for a few months or years it won't decrease...

[agoraadnim]

Interesting thought. Never considered this before.

[Velkro]

you are right, even for professional IT specialist, secure'ing keys is challenge
i mean, you can oversee some problems like backup every ~100 transactions

[moriartybitcoin]

Human nature is human nature. People will always lose their keys.  After 21 million bitcoins, the number will decrease in a LINEAR fashion each year. 

Unless somehow we humans become perfect :-)

[roslinpl]

Yes well but till this time there will be Bitcoin2 perhaps ...

People will probably never stop using Bitcoins but in next decade there will be need for another as good coin as Bitcoin.

We will see - but yes - total number will .. hmm decrease in a number of coins in usage. But there will be still same amount

[ranlo]

Human nature is human nature. People will always lose their keys.  After 21 million bitcoins, the number will decrease in a LINEAR fashion each year. 

Unless somehow we humans become perfect :-)

It won't be linear. That would assume that the same number are lost year after year, when really it's going to be variable. It'll be more like a wave than anything. Some years people will lose a lot, some they will lose almost nothing; especially if we get more whales.

[tspacepilot]

Human nature is human nature. People will always lose their keys.  After 21 million bitcoins, the number will decrease in a LINEAR fashion each year. 

Unless somehow we humans become perfect :-)

We all agree that some bitcoins will be lost, but there's already been some pretty solid arguments posted upthread showing that it won't be linear.  You should consider those arguments, I think.  "human nature is human nature" is a tautology that doesn't do much in the face of actual arguments, IMHO.

[gitinahang]

xcp burned a couple thousand already.

[nkocevar]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=616098.msg6817231#msg6817231

Follow this link to see the effect of someone losing their wallet containing tons of bitcoins. Its effect on the market as well as the total number of bitcoins in circulation.

[TopherB]

Losing private keys must really suck, but I see your point. Isn't there someway to protect it?

Yes.

Create backups.

Take personal responsibility?
No, I insist someone protect me from my own many forms of laziness. Make it law.

[ranlo]

Losing private keys must really suck, but I see your point. Isn't there someway to protect it?

Yes.

Create backups.

Take personal responsibility?
No, I insist someone protect me from my own many forms of laziness. Make it law.

Store all your BTC on Circle (when/if they open) and your wish may or may not be granted!

[eXch]

Well, lets assume that holding BTC is the best option

[tspacepilot]

xcp burned a couple thousand already.

is xcp a person on this forum?  I'm confused (perhaps perpetually so ).

[bryant.coleman]

I have read somewhere that around 7% of all the currently circulating Bitcoins are lost for ever (i.e the Private Keys are not with any one). This figure will increase over time.

[ranlo]

I have read somewhere that around 7% of all the currently circulating Bitcoins are lost for ever (i.e the Private Keys are not with any one). This figure will increase over time.

The figure isn't known though. People speculate and try to craft their own numbers, but there's no way to know for sure. There are definitely people sitting on coins from '09-'10 that haven't moved them but still have access.

[nickenburg]

One thing that most people don't seem to understand is that after 21 million Bitcoins have been produced, the TOTAL number of Bitcoins in circulation will decrease in a LINEAR fashion each year.  Why? Because a consistent number of people (maybe 0.05%) will always - ALWAYS - lose their private keys.  This is inevitable.

So with the number of Bitcoins DECLINING (after 21 million) and the demand RISING, classical economics tells us that the price will SURGE.

Yes and 21 million bitcoins only so we dont have enough.
So for everyone to use it maybe 100 satoshi will be 10$ someday.
So everyone can use bitcoin, or do you think other altcoins there price will go up so there are enough coins for everyone?

[chennan]

Uh, 256 bit will be secure while you live.. Maybe. But we're all betting that it is secure for a very long time. Maybe not billions or millions of years, but if it actually survives a few hundred years, that's good enough for now.

Practially, I agree with this statement ^^^.  Nonetheless, the discussion of how quantum computers relate to breaking sha 256 is pretty interesting. 

The image above with the solar system sized "perfect-computer" is cute, but it lacks detail.  What's the valuation of "least engery possible to record a change of state"?

Sorry I'm so dumb.

You think too far away! When quantum computer can break sha256, the cryptocurrency probably evolved to new type not BTC as same now.

[ranlo]

One thing that most people don't seem to understand is that after 21 million Bitcoins have been produced, the TOTAL number of Bitcoins in circulation will decrease in a LINEAR fashion each year.  Why? Because a consistent number of people (maybe 0.05%) will always - ALWAYS - lose their private keys.  This is inevitable.

So with the number of Bitcoins DECLINING (after 21 million) and the demand RISING, classical economics tells us that the price will SURGE.

Yes and 21 million bitcoins only so we dont have enough.
So for everyone to use it maybe 100 satoshi will be 10$ someday.
So everyone can use bitcoin, or do you think other altcoins there price will go up so there are enough coins for everyone?

Altcoins are all tied to Bitcoin, so it doesn't matter how many there are; the cap will always be based on what Bitcoin is worth. The only way to solve this would be to break some alts away from it completely and have them stand on their own.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Litecoin will solve this problem  


....but to be more serious: you can divide btc endless, so we have plenty of time. there can be 5 million btc and its enough.  lets talk again in 150 years about that "problem"    (iam optimistic)