Education is a right or is more like a priveledge

[commandrix]

A right is an excuse to steal from others (unless it's property rights, more aptly named "property".)  If your "right" involves forcing people to do anything against their will, you have to make a moral decision:

1. "People have the right to not be stolen from, attacked, or enslaved."
2. "People have the right to steal, attack, and enslave for 'social good', the definition of which is at public discretion."

So, how is a "right" to education theft?  Well, it revolves around either of these two concepts:

A. Teachers should work for free
B. Society should be forced to pay teachers

To have a right to education means people will become educated at any cost; it's like saying you have a right to own a house, the economy doesn't respond to this whatsoever, it doesn't mean anything except for an intent to steal from home-owners or from the public to build everyone a home at the taxpayer's cost.  There is no possible way to have a "right" to a house which doesn't involve forcing individuals of a market to act in a different way with the threat of violence.  We must either mug the teachers or the public to pay for a person's "right" to education, and since mugging teachers severely cuts the amount of teachers we'll have in an economy, we typically opt for the 2nd option, as it's more subtle; people don't notice a few dollars and cents added and taken from their purchases and income, though it amounts of a very big number over time.  This way, we can overpay for really awful schools and allow colleges to overcharge several times for tuition just so we can work at a substandard job.

But never to fear: people who advocate a right to education can solve this problem simply!  All they must do is become teachers and give away classes themselves, thereby ensuring anyone who wants an education can receive one; for some reason, I sincerely doubt anyone who actually thinks this way is willing to adhere to their principles.  Meanwhile, I'll be waiting for the right to a civil society...

...Which is why Youtube instructional videos exist. Do a really good job of it and you don't have to spend all day standing in front of a classroom.

[sana8410]

If you give a man a fish he is hungry again in an hour. If you teach him to catch a fish you do him a good turn. 

Force a man to undergo 12 years of public education and incentivize him squander another half a decade of his life obtaining a BA and he may reach his mid-20s never having learned to fish.

The take home point: regarding education as a right != "teaching a man to fish."

Or not go to college and be a jobless pedarist pillhead imbecile.

[zolace]

If you give a man a fish he is hungry again in an hour. If you teach him to catch a fish you do him a good turn.  

Force a man to undergo 12 years of public education and incentivize him squander another half a decade of his life obtaining a BA and he may reach his mid-20s never having learned to fish.

The take home point: regarding education as a right != "teaching a man to fish."

Or not go to college and be a jobless pedarist pillhead imbecile.

If college was the only answer to a job and the advancement of science, business and the arts, we would still be using huge tube populated computing devices, carbon paper for copies, and watching reruns of 'Father Knows Best".

[commandrix]

So basically the answer is:

1) Quit college. It's overrated and you can find everything you ever needed to know on Youtube if you can keep from being distracted by the funny animal videos.

2) Start a business in your garage.

Make sense?

[Lethn]

As Ron Paul has stated many times in regards to anything government provides, you do not have the right to somebody elses property, when you support government funded programs you are always stealing a portion of somebodies wealth in order to pay for it and it's the equivalent of a thief justifying stealing from somebody and of course the people who support this kind of thing almost always use the same kind of self-convincing logic.

If you want to get public programs up and running it should be done through voluntary funding, not emotional blackmail and extortion, I would never however support mandatory education in my life because it's a fucking joke though, you can't force somebody to learn something when they don't want to learn. As a personal example I have just recently learned how to refine silver and the steps look very easy! It's just a matter of doing it safely since you're dealing with Nitric Acid, free services can be done on a voluntary basis and I think the idea that people think you need to point guns at people to get anything done speaks a lot about how little they trust fellow human beings.

Here's the tutorial I found if anyone is interested, be warned, it is long but it explains everything really well: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread810904/pg1

[Rigon]

So basically the answer is:

1) Quit college. It's overrated and you can find everything you ever needed to know on Youtube if you can keep from being distracted by the funny animal videos.

2) Start a business in your garage.

Make sense?

Actually college is critical to advancing science.

[zolace]

So basically the answer is:

1) Quit college. It's overrated and you can find everything you ever needed to know on Youtube if you can keep from being distracted by the funny animal videos.

2) Start a business in your garage.

Make sense?

Actually college is critical to advancing science.

Not really. Many companies seek great minds out of high schools for intern programs related to specific research they are conducting and to introduce them to how things are done in the real world, before their young minds are polluted by the institutional professors, and to guide them toward schools and programs that will foster and not smother their individuality.

So SOME college (and colleges) may be critical to advancing science. Most are not. So, if you receive a BS in chemistry from say, Central Florida State, (not to pick on that institution specifically) Your use of your degree may involve the interaction of potato molecules when immersed in vegetable oil heated to a temperature of 350 degrees. In a continuing lab experiment. Day after day

[umair127]

 I am sure all those engineers involved with the appollo missions dropped out of middle school.

[sana8410]

NASA has no space capabilities anymore. While they still have a huge budget, they are dependent on Russia for primary stage lift rockets. Absent those, the largest vehicle they can fly is a paper airplane off the roof of the shuttle assembly building...

[wachtwoord]

Privilege. I don't believe in rights beyond physical integrity and freedom.

[tobyliciously]

I see it as a privilege. Not everyone's lucky but that's just how things are.

[Rigon]

NASA has no space capabilities anymore. While they still have a huge budget, they are dependent on Russia for primary stage lift rockets. Absent those, the largest vehicle they can fly is a paper airplane off the roof of the shuttle assembly building...

Fact: mars rover program was developed, engineered and operated by 8th grade dropouts.

[nickenburg]

I think its more like a priveledge because rich people can send there kids to the best schools in the world.
Its more like a elite club of kids get the best education possible, in the human mind.
And the lower education is just to prepare you for a shitty job that would never make you rich.
I think they should change the way education is given, now only kids who can obey and stay put for a few hours to learn, can do a little better education.
So you can do a better job with better pay.
Everyone should learn and earn the same in the world.

[umair127]

NASA has no space capabilities anymore. While they still have a huge budget, they are dependent on Russia for primary stage lift rockets. Absent those, the largest vehicle they can fly is a paper airplane off the roof of the shuttle assembly building...

Fact: mars rover program was developed, engineered and operated by 8th grade dropouts.

Fact: Primary rocket engines on the Apollo class rocket that launched the Rover to Mars were obtained from Russia.

Fact: you can build one hell of a car, but without having wheels and tires, it might as well be be a 1972 Chevy pickup up on blocks in someones back yard.

[zolace]

I am sure all those engineers involved with the appollo missions dropped out of middle school.

All of the Mars rover programs were developed and are run by the JPL, which is a devision of the California Institute of Technology, a private university.

Just about all of them have PhD's. Many of them from CIT.
Example: http://marsrover.nasa.gov/people/

Bottom line is if you want a country to compete with the rest of the world, you need education as a right. It's one of the very few self-serving rights you give someone.

[umair127]

I am sure all those engineers involved with the appollo missions dropped out of middle school.

All of the Mars rover programs were developed and are run by the JPL, which is a devision of the California Institute of Technology, a private university.

Just about all of them have PhD's. Many of them from CIT.
Example: http://marsrover.nasa.gov/people/

Bottom line is if you want a country to compete with the rest of the world, you need education as a right. It's one of the very few self-serving rights you give someone.

You're using an exception to prove the rule here. Part of the problem with our education system is tuition. Should tuition to the engineering program of a university cost as much as a Philosophy degree? Should everyone have free access to engineering degrees (because they're self serving) and the liberal arts degrees cost more above that?

[umair127]

We need hardcore education finance reform, IMO that should have come before healthcare (insurance) reform. The future leaders of this country are largely indentured servants to the banking system. I'm pretty conservative fiscally and student loans really disgust me. I don't think education (past high school) is a right. I do think student loan interest shouldn't accrue until after graduation and it should be tied to the 10 year treasure note rate.

[sana8410]

it should be a right, but then nobody would give a shit if you were educated because everyone would be.

Then there would have to be some extra special school after that to separate the wheat from the chafe.

Then after everyone gets the right to that shit, then another even more articular level would be introduced.

The end result is that everyone spends their entire lives in school and nobody can afford to buy a sports car at 40.

[Rigon]

it should be a right, but then nobody would give a shit if you were educated because everyone would be.

Then there would have to be some extra special school after that to separate the wheat from the chafe.

Then after everyone gets the right to that shit, then another even more articular level would be introduced.

The end result is that everyone spends their entire lives in school and nobody can afford to buy a sports car at 40.

Socialized education should only be supported so far. In most states, it is through high School Graduation, or age 18. After that, get a job, get a scholarship or get a loan.also unlike a human, a dolphin's brain is structured so that only half sleeps at a time, allowing the alert half to maintain its breathing, and keep it surfacing for air. No additional socially funded education needed.

[zolace]

it should be a right, but then nobody would give a shit if you were educated because everyone would be.

Then there would have to be some extra special school after that to separate the wheat from the chafe.

Then after everyone gets the right to that shit, then another even more articular level would be introduced.

The end result is that everyone spends their entire lives in school and nobody can afford to buy a sports car at 40.

Socialized education should only be supported so far. In most states, it is through high School Graduation, or age 18. After that, get a job, get a scholarship or get a loan.also unlike a human, a dolphin's brain is structured so that only half sleeps at a time, allowing the alert half to maintain its breathing, and keep it surfacing for air. No additional socially funded education needed.

Face it, some children can not be learned nothing. If you really care, do what a large group of liberal donators do, donate to planned parenthood. While they get a huge amount of government funding, none of it can be used for abortion services. that service is strictly donor based, so please contribute.  So far this year, they have only received enough money to perform 97,000,000 abortions over the next two years.