Just-Dice scam

[madmadmax]

Greetings,

I raised the issue of just-dice being a potential scam with Dooglus himself but was called a retard that should commit suicide to prevent my genetics from ruining the gene pool by one of the players and banned shortly after.

I was provocative to the minimum given the circumstances as I was slandered by mentally challenged players which ironically are the very ones I'm trying to save.

The point that I have raised with Dooglus is that his provably fair concept isn't secure from all vectors, in fact it has a rather large flaw that could potentially (and very likely IS) be exploited by himself. The flaw is he could potentially be running a bot that runs Mysql queries and inserts "fake" bets. This would allow to make the website seem more secure than it really is as well as giving the impression that it is significantly more busy, worth significantly more and encourage players to make bets that they otherwise wouldn't on a website with less credibility, not to mention the investments.

The solution would be to add a link next to every bet, once a user clicks the link he would be redirected to a page showing all the txids of the deposits of the user making the bet. Since Dooglus couldn't possibly have access to those amounts of untainted BTC (he couldn't keep reusing the same BTC or else we'd notice) this would disprove my claim for all the future bets on this website with little to no cost to Dooglus.

Since every account on just-dice is psuedoanonymous in nature the same way as Bitcoin addresses privacy isn't a huge concern.

Given the nature of Dooglus and his unwillingness to meet in person due to the supposed risks on his side I am calling this out as the next Mt Gox.

Please stay safe and have a nice day!

[1713547955]

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[pedrog]

Don't you owe a bunch of coins to CasinoBit bettors and investors?

[acs267]

PrimeDice and some other betting websites doesn't do this. Plus, most people who bet also use the chat? Or all of those bots used by Dooglus, too?

[madmadmax]

Don't you owe a bunch of coins to CasinoBit bettors and investors?

Please provide evidence.

PrimeDice and other betting websites doesn't do this. Plus, most people who bet also use the chat? Or all of those bots used by Dooglus, too?

Could potentially be, Satoshidice sure does prove every bet.

[acs267]

Don't you owe a bunch of coins to CasinoBit bettors and investors?

Please provide evidence.

PrimeDice and some other betting websites doesn't do this. Plus, most people who bet also use the chat? Or all of those bots used by Dooglus, too?

Could potentially be, Satoshidice sure does prove every bet.

SatoshiDice is a dice game.
Just-Dice is a Hi-Lo dice game.

SatoshiDice has also been suspected of using bots on some bets.

[MRKLYE]

I think the exact words I used were: You are to retarded for logic and you should kill yourself and your children to avoid your genetics further polluting the human race..



Or something along those lines.

Provable fair is known to have its flaws. No system can be 100% provable fair. At then end of the day it's just some numbers proving that the rolled numbers were prerolled ahead of time and in this case were not altered.

If you think doog is going to scam you, don't play at just dice. Simple as that.


Doog has no need to run bots to make his numbers improved. He owns the #1 dice site in BTC land hands down.



You haven't a leg to stand on nor the IQ to even understand logic or reason.
I'm also glad the first thing you mentioned was me telling you to off yourself.  

Cheers you mongoloid fuck,

Kyle.T

[madmadmax]

Don't you owe a bunch of coins to CasinoBit bettors and investors?

Please provide evidence.

PrimeDice and some other betting websites doesn't do this. Plus, most people who bet also use the chat? Or all of those bots used by Dooglus, too?

Could potentially be, Satoshidice sure does prove every bet.

SatoshiDice is a dice game.
Just-Dice is a Hi-Lo game.

SatoshiDice has also been suspected of using bots on some bets.

It is irrelevant, dooglas has proved to be untrustworthy by his sketchy behavior. It would cost little to nothing to have what I'm suggesting implemented and rule out this possibility yet he never will.

[dooglus]

I raised the issue of just-dice being a potential scam with Dooglus himself but was called a retard that should commit suicide to prevent my genetics from ruining the gene pool by one of the players and banned shortly after.

Not by me you weren't.  I was incredibly patient with you even though you failed to present any kind of reasonable point.

Eventually one of the chat moderators with less patience than myself put an end to your pointless trolling.

I can post a log of the chat if you like so others can decide whether:

I was provocative to the minimum

or whether you were just trolling.

The point that I have raised with Dooglus is that his provably fair concept isn't secure from all vectors, in fact it has a rather large flaw that could potentially (and very likely IS) be exploited by himself. The flaw is he could potentially be running a bot that runs Mysql queries and inserts "fake" bets. This would allow to make the website seem more secure than it really is as well as giving the impression that it is significantly more busy, worth significantly more and encourage players to make bets that they otherwise wouldn't on a website with less credibility, not to mention the investments.

This is the kind of nonsense you were spouting in the chat too.  I'll try to address it.

* I don't add any fake bets to the site.  The server often struggles to keep up with the volume of real bets we get.  I don't need to add any more volume.  I add artificial delays to low-stake bets precisely to reduce the number of bets going through the server.  This is documented in the FAQ tab.

* Even if I did add fake bets, this wouldn't have anything to do with whether the site is provably fair or not.  The fake bets wouldn't affect your chance of winning or losing.  You can verify that all your rolls were made fairly.

* Why would the presence of fake bets make the site look more secure than it is?  It wouldn't.

* Why would I care about making the site look like it's worth more than it is?  It's not for sale.  I've turned down several huge buy-out offers.

* Players bet on Just-Dice because it's provably fair, and because it has a long (in Bitcoin years) history of reliably paying out winners.

* I don't need to attract investors.  I have too many already.  They're diluting my share of the profits.  I don't need to make the site look more attractive to investors.

Did I miss anything?  Oh, you think I use MySQL and PHP?  I don't.

The solution would be to add a link next to every bet, once a user clicks the link he would be redirected to a page showing all the txids of the deposits of the user making the bet. Since Dooglus couldn't possibly have access to those amounts of untainted BTC (he couldn't keep reusing the same BTC or else we'd notice) this would disprove my claim for all the future bets on this website with little to no cost to Dooglus.

Someone asked me to provide complete blockchain transaction histories for all players once before, too.  Was that you?  I could quite easily provide a bunch of fake deposit transactions to go along with any fake bets.  You're probably not realising that most of the bets are really tiny dust bets, worth fractions of a cent.  It would be trivial to find enough untainted coins to produce txids for deposits to these 'fake' accounts.  So I'd be publishing personal information of every player for no gain at all, other than kind of convincing you that I'm not adding fake bets to the site that make no sense for me to add anyway.  No thanks.

Since every account on just-dice is psuedoanonymous in nature the same way as Bitcoin addresses privacy isn't a huge concern.

As it currently stands, there's a third-party bot in the chat that you can register your deposit address with, for the purposes of collecting 'rain'.  Many players chose to disclose their deposit address, and along with it their deposit history.  I don't want to force that disclosure on everyone.

Given the nature of Dooglus and his unwillingness to meet in person due to the supposed risks on his side I am calling this out as the next Mt Gox.

Please stay safe and have a nice day!

I don't know if you're familiar with how Just-Dice proves its solvency on a weekly basis, but we've been doing it since before MtGox closed.  Search the FAQ tab for "Is this site a scam or Ponzi scheme? Is it insolvent?" for full details, but basically we:

1) publish a weekly list of investor balances
2) keep the majority of invested coins in a well-known address

Each investor can then check that the coins they invested are still held by us.  This is something that MtGox wouldn't have been able to do since they apparently were insolvent, and something that has become quite fashionable since the MtGox collapse.

If you have any remaining concerns, please feel free to bring them up and I'll do my best to address them.

[madmadmax]

I think the exact words I used were: You are to retarded for logic and you should kill yourself and your children to avoid your genetics further polluting the human race..



Or something along those lines.

Provable fair is known to have its flaws. No system can be 100% provable fair. At then end of the day it's just some numbers proving that the rolled numbers were prerolled ahead of time and in this case were not altered.

If you think doog is going to scam you, don't play at just dice. Simple as that.


Doog has no need to run bots to make his numbers improved. He owns the #1 dice site in BTC land hands down.



You haven't a leg to stand on nor the IQ to even understand logic or reason.
I'm also glad the first thing you mentioned was me telling you to off yourself.  

Cheers you mongoloid fuck,

Kyle.T

I have never played nor ever will play at just-dice, I won't invest either. We have free speech here and I feel as if the community needs people like me more than ever to shed some light on scams before shit hits the fan and everyone is bitching and moaning on the forums like post-Gox again.

Your insults are pointless, discredit my claims don't insult the messenger, plus thanks for re-wording exactly what I've told you and sending it back, I appreciate despite the fact that the way I've said it was more classy.

Me quoting your insults are meant to shed some light on the kind of degeneracy that looms those chats, not as a compliment, but take it however you will.

[dooglus]

It is irrelevant, dooglas has proved to be untrustworthy by his sketchy behavior. It would cost little to nothing to have what I'm suggesting implemented and rule out this possibility yet he never will.

I'm not going to publish player deposit addresses.  If they want to, they can.  There's a bot for that.

This isn't "sketchy" in the slightest, and proves nothing about my trustworthiness.

I'm going out for a bit now, but I look forward to reading your reply when I return.

Please take your time and make your best effort at laying out a logical argument.  It's worth the effort.

[madmadmax]

Not by me you weren't.  I was incredibly patient with you even though you failed to present any kind of reasonable point.

Eventually one of the chat moderators with less patience than myself put an end to your pointless trolling.

Please post the logs, one second you disappear because "someone is hacking the cold wallet" another second one of your other moderators supposedly bans me accidentally. Just that fact alone should make players cautious.

[Gatekeeper]

I think the exact words I used were: You are to retarded for logic and you should kill yourself and your children to avoid your genetics further polluting the human race..



Or something along those lines.

Provable fair is known to have its flaws. No system can be 100% provable fair. At then end of the day it's just some numbers proving that the rolled numbers were prerolled ahead of time and in this case were not altered.

If you think doog is going to scam you, don't play at just dice. Simple as that.


Doog has no need to run bots to make his numbers improved. He owns the #1 dice site in BTC land hands down.



You haven't a leg to stand on nor the IQ to even understand logic or reason.
I'm also glad the first thing you mentioned was me telling you to off yourself.  

Cheers you mongoloid fuck,

Kyle.T

I have never played nor ever will play at just-dice, I won't invest either. We have free speech here and I feel as if the community needs people like me more than ever to shed some light on scams before shit hits the fan and everyone is bitching and moaning on the forums like post-Gox again.

Your insults are pointless, discredit my claims don't insult the messenger, plus thanks for re-wording exactly what I've told you and sending it back, I appreciate despite the fact that the way I've said it was more classy.

Me quoting your insults are meant to shed some light on the kind of degeneracy that looms those chats, not as a compliment, but take it however you will.

the community needs people like you ? lmfao, yeah reading your trust rating,shows exactly the type of person you are.  hilarious the idea you have of yourself in your head, shame the reality is completely different

[seuntjie]

I raised the issue of just-dice being a potential scam with Dooglus himself but was called a retard that should commit suicide to prevent my genetics from ruining the gene pool by one of the players and banned shortly after.

I am sorry that people resorted to name calling and insulting *frowns towards klye*. It is rude, unprofessional and usually shows lack of proof or reasoning.

I was provocative to the minimum given the circumstances as I was slandered by mentally challenged players which ironically are the very ones I'm trying to save.

You came in calling dooglus a scammer, saying he IS running a scam, he IS placing fake bets, I would not call this "provocative to the minimum". You only later said he could be running a scam, etc. Once again, name calling does not help either party.


I was planning on covering the other topics, but dooglus did a good job on that, so I won't be reposting what he said.

[dooglus]

I have never played nor ever will play at just-dice, I won't invest either. We have free speech here and I feel as if the community needs people like me more than ever to shed some light on scams before shit hits the fan and everyone is bitching and moaning on the forums like post-Gox again.

Your insults are pointless, discredit my claims don't insult the messenger, plus thanks for re-wording exactly what I've told you and sending it back, I appreciate despite the fact that the way I've said it was more classy.

Me quoting your insults are meant to shed some light on the kind of degeneracy that looms those chats, not as a compliment, but take it however you will.

We have free speech, and I wouldn't try to stop you exercising it.  Just-Dice isn't a scam, and from what I see you don't even have a slightly convincing argument that it is.

I don't like Klye's argument style much either.  It's not helpful to shout "retard" and "mongoloid" at people.  But I think you started it, calling everyone "sheeple" and such like.  Your whole style in the chat was aggressive and abusive, so it's not entirely surprising you were met with the same in exchange.

Moving on, can we have a discussion now?

[pedrog]

Don't you owe a bunch of coins to CasinoBit bettors and investors?

Please provide evidence.

I see you have deleted your posts on CasinoBit's topic, but once on the net...

Here you go: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/casinobit-live-roulette-invest-best-casino-of-2013.100683/page-56#post-3107265

Sorry, here it is: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=171094.msg3286818#msg3286818

[madmadmax]

I raised the issue of just-dice being a potential scam with Dooglus himself but was called a retard that should commit suicide to prevent my genetics from ruining the gene pool by one of the players and banned shortly after.

I am sorry that people resorted to name calling and insulting *frowns towards klye*. It is rude, unprofessional and usually shows lack of proof or reasoning.

I was provocative to the minimum given the circumstances as I was slandered by mentally challenged players which ironically are the very ones I'm trying to save.

You came in calling dooglus a scammer, saying he IS running a scam, he IS placing fake bets, I would not call this "provocative to the minimum". You only later said he could be running a scam, etc. Once again, name calling does not help either party.


I was planning on covering the other topics, but dooglus did a good job on that, so I won't be reposting what he said.

(will address doogluses long post in a second)
My point was that if someone leaves out this huge potential flaw in the logic of their website in exchange for little to no (supposed) gain then it is incredibly suspicious.

If I theoretically decided to run an online casino but not integrate any provable fairness at all and assure players that I will choose a random number from 0 to 10 on every bet in an honest manner, am I then a scammer despite the players having no concrete evidence showing that I am favoring one of them?

My opinion is that dooglus is a scammer until proven otherwise, the fact is that there is a huge flaw which could potentially be exploited.

[madmadmax]

Don't you owe a bunch of coins to CasinoBit bettors and investors?

Please provide evidence.

I see you have deleted your posts on CasinoBit's topic, but once on the net...

Here you go: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/casinobit-live-roulette-invest-best-casino-of-2013.100683/page-56#post-3107265

Sorry, here it is: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=171094.msg3286818#msg3286818

Please show a screencap or any concrete evidence in the topic that was already opened in an attempt to extort funds from me without any evidence what-so-ever.

The main accuser that came up with the theory claims that it is because our style of writing is incredibly similar, being an intelligent individual with remarkable grammar I would be surprised if there wasn't someone like me in existence.

Thanks.

[dooglus]

Please post the logs, one second you disappear because "someone is hacking the cold wallet" another second one of your other moderators supposedly bans me accidentally. Just that fact alone should make players cautious.

The bit about the cold wallet was meant as a joke.  Someone said:

12:43:58 (759608) <kelvinnia> hell he has access to all the invested btc , if he was looking to scam
12:44:10 (759608) <kelvinnia> he might as well do it like how inputs.io did

to which I replied:

12:44:23 (1) <@dooglus> oops. I think I see a hacker in the cold wallet!
12:44:24 (1) <@dooglus> brb
12:44:26 (1) <@dooglus> etc

Sorry if you didn't get that.  You see, hackers can't get into the cold wallet.  Because it's cold (ie. offline).  Funny, right?  Sigh.

Anyway, here's the full unedited log:

12:33:51 (755992) <raylene> Dooglus
12:33:56 *** vinton (757025) [#1194409853] bet 1.57 BTC at 49.5% and won 1.57 BTC ***
12:33:59 (755992) <raylene> if your website is indeed not a scam
12:34:07 (755992) <raylene> why not add the deposit txid to every bet?
12:34:17 (755992) <raylene> this would prove that the user has actually made a deposit and is real
12:34:31 (755992) <raylene> not some bot running queries on your mysql database
12:34:44 (1) <@dooglus> biggest 4 weeks: Oct 14 2013 7.09% | Jul 29 2013 7.56% | Oct 7 2013 7.69% | Jan 13 2014 7.82%
12:35:00 (739766) <Homer> wow
12:35:05 *** vinton (757025) [#1194411350] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:35:07 *** vinton (757025) [#1194411374] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:35:07 *** vinton (757025) [#1194411385] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:35:07 *** vinton (757025) [#1194411404] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:35:08 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: what are you asking?
12:35:19 (756608) <sammie jo> raylene I thought about that
12:35:20 (650660) <Theo> what txid?
12:35:23 (1) <@dooglus> I expect most of the bets are made by bots, but don't think that's a problem
12:35:31 (755992) <raylene> When a person has made a bet
12:35:41 (756608) <sammie jo> he means your system creating fake bets I think
12:35:45 (755992) <raylene> why not display the transaction id that he used to deposit to his account
12:35:50 (650660) <Theo> many people run bots on their accounts
12:35:56 *** vinton (757025) [#1194412413] bet 0.7 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:35:58 (755992) <raylene> not those kind of bots
12:36:00 *** vinton (757025) [#1194412473] bet 0.7 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:36:07 (755992) <raylene> those would be appropriate
12:36:11 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: if you deposit 1 BTC ten times, so your balance is 10 BTC, which txid should I put next to all your bets?
12:36:15 (650660) <Theo> I know what youe mean
12:36:18 (755992) <raylene> the kind of bots dooglus runs on his myself database without real accounts
12:36:28 (755992) <raylene> it's just a php script inserting queries into a myself database
12:36:29 (737389) <cthulhu> she means where's the proof that nakowa actually deposited and wasn't just a figment of your imagination
12:36:40 *** vinton (757025) [#1194413226] bet 1.07 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:36:40 (755992) <raylene> to create the apprearance of a busy casino
12:36:40 *** vinton (757025) [#1194413261] bet 1.07 BTC at 49.5% and won 1.07 BTC ***
12:36:41 *** vinton (757025) [#1194413280] bet 1.07 BTC at 49.5% and won 1.07 BTC ***
12:36:47 (1) <@dooglus> you're suggesting I use PHP? that's offensive
12:36:58 (755992) <raylene> no
12:37:03 (650660) <Theo> I see what yoe mean
12:37:03 (755992) <raylene> I'm suggesting that you're a scammer
12:37:05 (737389) <cthulhu> hey php isnt that bad if you use Symfony
12:37:19 (755992) <raylene> you could link us to a page with all the 10 txids
12:37:27 (755992) <raylene> the question is how bad do you want it
12:37:27 (1) <@dooglus> if I wanted to make fake bets, having to make fake deposit transactions to back them up wouldn't be a problem at all
12:37:34 (1) <@dooglus> each deposit could make a million bets...
12:37:35 (755992) <raylene> the answer is not at all
12:37:46 (755992) <raylene> Yes
12:37:54 (755992) <raylene> but in this case you create volume as well
12:38:00 (755992) <raylene> you could make a fake 250BTC bet
12:38:03 (756608) <sammie jo> raylene.. most of the big betters.. talk in the chat /end
12:38:03 (755992) <raylene> for publicity
12:38:08 (650660) <Theo> so how should someone proof that this is not a scam?
12:38:15 (755992) <raylene> when in fact you're a homeless person without a dime on your ass
12:38:33 (755992) <raylene> I already answered that question
12:38:39 (755992) <raylene> say I deposit 10BTC to this account
12:38:39 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: there was a big bet (something like 200 BTC) recently. a couple of them I think. did you see me posting *anywhere* about it?
12:38:42 (755992) <raylene> I then make a bet
12:38:55 (737389) <cthulhu> wish i knew some homeless node.js developers, I'd take them in
12:38:57 (1) <@dooglus> if it was a fake bet for publicity, would I - uh - publicise it?
12:39:02 (755992) <raylene> it would link you to a page next to my bet where there are all the transaction ids that I deposited to my account with
12:39:19 (584175) <BouvieR> doog loves to give free btc to investors, confirmed =)
12:39:19 (755992) <raylene> doesn't matter
12:39:31 (759608) <kelvinnia> basically you just want the address of high rollers ?
12:39:33 (755992) <raylene> just the fact that you're displaying information which isn't true is bad enough
12:39:35 (1) <@dooglus> a txid doesn't prove anything other than that coins moved from one address to another. I can make txids if I want to fake stuff
12:39:39 (650660) <Theo> I think he suggests, that you scam a 200 btc WIN, so we loose our investment
12:39:50 (755992) <raylene> doog loves running ponzis, confirmed
12:39:56 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: I don't mind discussing this with you, but let's stick to the facts shall we? there's no need for you to make stuff up
12:40:00 (759608) <kelvinnia> raylene you really dumb bro
12:40:09 (743316) <flux-capacitor> raylene, maybe u will have better luck at the slots
12:40:12 (1) <@dooglus> I never ran any kind of bot here, not to play, and not to make fake bets
12:40:15 (743316) <flux-capacitor> get on a plane to vegas
12:40:46 (650660) <Theo> I understood raylene that he is asking about it. So for me these where just hypthetical thoughts
12:40:46 (755992) <raylene> you could make txids up but eventually you'd get caught when someone posts the private key for an address which you claimed belongs to your website
12:41:06 (650660) <Theo> no, raylene
12:41:16 (1) <@dooglus> you make no sense. if I claim an address belongs to me, it would. they're free to create. how would someone else get the key?
12:41:22 (759608) <kelvinnia> raylene how stupid are you ?
12:41:24 (650660) <Theo> he just needs to shift money from his accounts to other accounts
12:41:39 (372683) <aurelian> lol, raylene thinks doog would create a collision
12:41:40 (755992) <raylene> keep on being sheeple and learn critical thinking or else I've got a bridge to sell you
12:41:57 (650660) <Theo> two things:
12:42:06 (755992) <raylene> Look doog
12:42:12 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: if you can make a coherent argument, please do so. name calling isn't helping you here
12:42:21 (650660) <Theo> 1. @doog: he means, you take big transaction and claim it went here
12:42:29 (759608) <kelvinnia> honestly first you try to get your facts straight , understand the concept behind bitcoins and this site properly and then present your lame ass theory
12:42:32 (756608) <sammie jo> raylene is making a pretty valid point doog
12:42:39 (759608) <kelvinnia> you are just making yourself look stupid
12:42:42 (372683) <aurelian> raylene, one thing to point out a potential problem, another to accuse doog
12:42:47 (1) <@dooglus> maybe she has a point, but it's muddled
12:42:49 (755992) <raylene> you claim that you could potentially make up txids which aren't really deposits in this site is this correct?
12:43:11 (650660) <Theo> 2. @raylene: you may ask critical question. What is not ok, is to say that doog is a scammer, just because you think he might be
12:43:12 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: I claim that anyone can create bitcoin transactions. that's not controversial
12:43:13 (759608) <kelvinnia> he can send bitcoins from his personal address to this site
12:43:27 (743316) <flux-capacitor> raylene, its a free market
12:43:35 (759608) <kelvinnia> he has access to the seeds
12:43:41 (743316) <flux-capacitor> u can play at any site u want
12:43:43 (759608) <kelvinnia> he can make 200 btc
12:43:44 *** vinton (757025) [#1194421667] bet 0.32 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:43:47 *** vinton (757025) [#1194421693] bet 0.32 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:43:48 *** vinton (757025) [#1194421740] bet 0.32 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.32 BTC ***
12:43:58 (759608) <kelvinnia> hell he has access to all the invested btc , if he was looking to scam
12:44:05 (1470) <KLYE> Doog could infact win the entire bankroll for himself.. But he isn't karp[
12:44:06 (650660) <Theo> I understand how you think doog could scam here. But saying he does is like calling everyone with a knife a morder
12:44:10 (759608) <kelvinnia> he might as well do it like how inputs.io did
12:44:08 (1470) <KLYE> karpeles
12:44:16 *** vinton (757025) [#1194422268] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:44:20 (1470) <KLYE> Bahahah
12:44:20 (756608) <sammie jo> He has a valid point and it could be indeed true but my opinion is that it's not.
12:44:22 *** vinton (757025) [#1194422379] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:44:23 (1) <@dooglus> oops. I think I see a hacker in the cold wallet!
12:44:24 (1) <@dooglus> brb
12:44:22 (1470) <KLYE> Poor TF
12:44:25 *** vinton (757025) [#1194422449] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:44:26 (1) <@dooglus> etc
12:44:38 (1470) <KLYE> I don't think TF scammed to be honest.. I talked to him in here and he was trying to sell his JD UID
12:44:45 (743316) <flux-capacitor> raylene, just put all ur money at mtgox ,
12:44:46 (759608) <kelvinnia> TF did fucking scam
12:44:51 (755992) <raylene> If you published the txids for all the deposits for each account it would add many additional requirements for you to make fake bets, one among them is to actually have access to large amounts of untainted BTC or else we'd be onto you
12:44:58 (1470) <KLYE> You got proof? No? Shut your talking cock hole
12:45:01 (605159) <GamblingBad> dooglus when u will make a poker site?
12:45:09 (755992) <raylene> hacker right
12:45:16 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423397] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:45:18 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423439] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:45:19 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423450] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:45:19 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423468] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:45:21 (759608) <kelvinnia> raylene doog has over 5k bitcoins to his name
12:45:22 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: these fake accounts are presumably going to win a little for me, right?
12:45:24 *** vinton (757025) [#1194423551] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:45:28 (136) <@sqwerty> just-poker would be amazing
12:45:30 (1470) <KLYE> A man who would have stolen 4000 or whattever coins would not be in here firesaling his UID
12:45:33 (1) <@dooglus> so I could withdraw from one, and deposit into another?
12:45:36 (650660) <Theo> @raylene: just if he does not have much money. Since this website runs for a while he has enough btc, whether it is a scam or not
12:45:56 (605159) <GamblingBad> dooglus u will make just-poker.com?
12:45:57 (755992) <raylene> No, they would be here to create action, make the site seem busy so people invest
12:45:57 (372683) <aurelian> just-draw, a simple 5 card draw gambling site
12:46:03 (584175) <BouvieR> just-21
12:46:09 *** vinton (757025) [#1194424359] bet 0.97 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:46:09 (372683) <aurelian> just-*
12:46:11 *** daphne (44070) [#1194424398] bet 0.117128 BTC at 90% and won 0.0117128 BTC ***
12:46:11 (650660) <Theo> @doog as fas as I understand raylene, she thinks you might not have enough money for the self-transaction scam
12:46:15 *** vinton (757025) [#1194424461] bet 0.97 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:46:15 *** vinton (757025) [#1194424477] bet 0.97 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:46:18 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: also I have no incentive to make the site look busier than it is. I don't care if people play here or not to be honest
12:46:27 (755992) <raylene> Yes
12:46:31 (755992) <raylene> but this is your claim
12:46:33 (755992) <raylene> not a fact
12:46:41 (650660) <Theo> yes
12:46:42 (750722) <may> well you got financial incentives commission etc.
12:46:37 (755992) <raylene> I am discussing facts here
12:46:45 (1) <@dooglus> it's both
12:46:45 (755992) <raylene> what you could potentially do to steal from your players
12:46:49 *** vinton (757025) [#1194425068] bet 0.97 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.97 BTC ***
12:46:48 (91380) <Seuntjie> i think doog would be very happy if people stopped playing and he could close the sites
12:46:57 (759608) <kelvinnia> raylene you think doog cant make a deposit from one of the JD to address to his new deposit address
12:46:58 (1) <@dooglus> I'd quite like to close the sites, yes
12:47:14 (755992) <raylene> kelvinnia we would then detect the taint
12:47:14 (759608) <kelvinnia> why doog ?
12:47:15 (1) <@dooglus> they take up too much of my time, are too stressful, and I already have plenty of BTC
12:47:17 (739766) <Homer> seuntije
12:47:17 (152565) <SeuntjieBot> λ WARNING! 739766:Homer seems to be impersonating 757646:Homer λ
12:47:19 (372683) <aurelian> I would rather not have my deposit address publicized everytime I make a bet ok
12:47:20 (650660) <Theo> @raylene: no, you were not discussing. You could ask about it. Why we got a bit angry is, because you SAID the IS a scammer
12:47:27 (737389) <cthulhu> if you gambled and won you could have so much more
12:47:35 (755992) <raylene> you already have too much btc from running this scam
12:47:37 (755992) <raylene> or so you claim
12:47:45 (739766) <Homer> 757646 is djarno, he is the 1 impostering "homer" can you change it @ seuntije
12:47:51 (755992) <raylene> you are losing your credibility by the second
12:47:52 (759608) <kelvinnia> raylene you have issue no one is asking you to stick along
12:48:01 (1) <@dooglus> could you help me out and tell me what you think I've done that's scammy? it is just making the site look busier than it is? or something else?
12:48:03 (743316) <flux-capacitor> doog, i understand the busy part, but what is the stressful part?
12:48:03 (326399) <x> raylene, you are the only one losing here.
12:48:04 (91380) <Seuntjie> no i don't manage the list
12:48:07 (739766) <Homer> who does?
12:48:13 (759608) <kelvinnia> not like you existence matters to anyone in here
12:48:14 (91380) <Seuntjie> !s notice
12:48:14 (152565) <SeuntjieBot> λ Please contact Wilco, Warren or Arrogant with your new JD deposit address. All JD addies have been removed from the list at 7:30 PM UCT, on 04/23/2014 λ
12:48:17 (91380) <Seuntjie> they do
12:48:20 (743316) <flux-capacitor> BANHAMMER time for raylene !
12:48:20 (136) <@sqwerty> doog let me know if you ever want to make a poker site. i could/would be interested in helping
12:48:21 (650660) <Theo> raylene, please for the peace, can you say "you could" instead of "you are"
12:48:22 (739766) <Homer> ok thanks
12:48:40 (755992) <raylene> you could call me an altruist I guess, I help you sheeple fight darwinism by protecting you from scams
12:48:41 (650660) <Theo> it is the difference between proofless accusations and discussions
12:48:49 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: please?
12:48:52 (759608) <kelvinnia> theo dont you get it already he is just a dumb troll
12:48:58 (743316) <flux-capacitor> sqwerty, just ban this troll already
12:49:19 (755992) <raylene> look doog
12:49:21 *** vinton (757025) [#1194427719] bet 2.07 BTC at 49.5% and lost ***
12:49:26 (755992) <raylene> say if I have a website
12:49:32 (755992) <raylene> no provable fairness what-so-ever
12:49:37 (755992) <raylene> I just ask people to trust me
12:49:38 (750722) <may> talking about safety is totally legit though, always gotta be careful in the bitcoin world see gox etc.
12:49:40 (755992) <raylene> PLEASE TRUST ME
12:49:43 (91380) <Seuntjie> raylene i've had coins invested in this site for months i've withdrawn multiple times and has always received all of my coins. Nothing about this page points to a scam
12:49:47 (755992) <raylene> I won't steal your BTC, promise
12:49:48 (650660) <Theo> ok, let me ask you directly: do you have any reasons beside the possibility, that this is a scam?
12:49:52 (91380) <Seuntjie> so please stop accusing the site without proff
12:49:55 (91380) <Seuntjie> proof*
12:50:04 (759608) <kelvinnia> raylene you dont trust doog then leave man , Stop pissing off everyone in here
12:50:09 (755992) <raylene> but you don't have any proof of me actually scamming but you have this huge gaping hole in my casino
12:50:15 (755992) <raylene> am I then not a scammer?
12:50:20 (650660) <Theo> in my eyes, it is valid to ask
12:50:25 (91380) <Seuntjie> where is the whole?
12:50:25 (756608) <sammie jo> I don't agree with nobody here.. all I know is that betting here if fair if you are a casual gambler not investor
12:50:32 (1) <@dooglus> what hole?
12:50:33 (756608) <sammie jo> so I can win or lose just my luck
12:50:33 (136) <@sqwerty> just use /mute userid if you dont want to listen
12:50:51 (4764) <@G.Wilco> doog will mute when he gets bored
12:50:54 (605159) <GamblingBad> is a big hole in just dice
12:50:56 (136) <@sqwerty> sorry... /ignore userID
12:51:09 (755992) <raylene> the whole concept is flawed because you don't add all the deposits for all the accounts next to each bet
12:51:14 (136) <@sqwerty> then later you can /unignore all to clear the list
12:51:12 (755992) <raylene> and you never will
12:51:15 (756608) <sammie jo> jk
12:51:16 (1) <@dooglus> lol
12:51:21 (755992) <raylene> because it would then make it impossible for you to fake bets
12:51:22 (650660) <Theo> @raylene:
12:51:26 *** vinton (757025) [#1194429989] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:51:30 (91380) <Seuntjie> that makes fuckoll sense....
12:51:31 (755992) <raylene> you don't have access to those kind of amounts of untainted BTC
12:51:36 (755992) <raylene> you never will
12:51:40 (650660) <Theo> I don't want the people see how much money is going through my account
12:51:43 (650660) <Theo> or from where
12:51:46 (755992) <raylene> Seuntjie what doesn't make sense?
12:51:49 (1) <@dooglus> even if i was faking bets, how does that let me scam anyone?
12:51:57 (755992) <raylene> your account is psuedoanonymous though
12:52:03 (755992) <raylene> you could even be behind Tor
12:52:03 (91380) <Seuntjie> your whole argument....
12:52:07 (650660) <Theo> it makes sense WHAT you say, but not HOW you do it
12:52:10 (758624) <whelk> freeroll
12:52:29 (756608) <sammie jo> <@dooglus> even if i was faking bets, how does that let me scam anyone? well thats that
12:52:43 (1) <@dooglus> step 1 should be to describe the scam
12:52:48 (750722) <may> i think raylene has a good point BUT thats the same in the whole bitcoinworld. you earn trust over time. no regulation by gov also means no safety sometimes
12:52:48 (755992) <raylene> Because A) you can run a ponzi on investors by issuing more "on-site" BTC than actual BTC in your system
12:52:51 (650660) <Theo> I got it
12:53:07 (750722) <may> gox was behaving weird so people asked questions
12:53:11 (1) <@dooglus> check the faq for 'ponzi'
12:53:12 (605159) <GamblingBad> bitcon and just dice are 2 ponzi schemes
12:53:13 (750722) <may> imo JD never behaved weird in any way
12:53:34 (755992) <raylene> B) you can create "fake bets" to lie to investors about the worth of your business and the traffic it gets
12:53:35 (756608) <sammie jo> raylene I heard theres a paranoid convention down the road.. go take a look
12:53:55 (743316) <flux-capacitor> doog, whats the most stressful part of jd, besides trolls like raylene?
12:53:58 (1) <@dooglus> investors see their returns
12:54:00 (755992) <raylene> you also make your site look more credible to potential bettors because they wouldn't bet here otherwise get free publicity etc
12:54:06 (650660) <Theo> @raylene, thanks for using "can" not "are"
12:54:11 (755992) <raylene> Not all of them at once
12:54:12 (650660) <Theo> don't stop with this, here
12:54:22 (755992) <raylene> you could still pay them their returns at the expense of others
12:54:23 (1) <@dooglus> flux: im not a big fan of the responsibility
12:54:51 (756608) <sammie jo> ever think about dropping that responsibility?
12:54:53 (759635) <brandyne> doog why do you wanna close the site ?
12:54:53 (750722) <may> raylene: thats the same with almost anything up to a certain point. see cyprus. government fucked them. you just have to go the place that you trust the most
12:54:56 (605159) <GamblingBad> doog when u finnish answer raylene and can answer my question?
12:55:02 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: check the proof of solvency stuff
12:55:12 (650660) <Theo> but txids would not change it
12:55:14 (755992) <raylene> Theo doog is a scammer unless proven otherwise,
12:55:18 (650660) <Theo> not any more
12:55:27 (650660) <Theo> that is something for a new website
12:55:32 (759635) <brandyne> or maybe doog is not a scammer unless proven otherwise
12:55:32 (1) <@dooglus> i prove solvency every sunday
12:55:47 (1) <@dooglus> ie. non-ponzi-ness
12:55:55 (650660) <Theo> no
12:55:56 (755992) <raylene> the whole point of crypto is that you don't need to trust people based on their word
12:56:03 (650660) <Theo> you can say, he might be a scammer
12:56:05 (759635) <brandyne> all you have pointed out is just "maybe"
12:56:06 (372683) <aurelian> but you can if you choose to
12:56:14 (650660) <Theo> it is not a scam not to proof everything
12:56:18 (759635) <brandyne> you have no proof of any sorts that he is actually doing it
12:56:18 (750722) <may> raylene: if JD was a scam or behaved weird in any way the majority would have stopped playing in a post-gox world
12:56:32 (755992) <raylene> if he wasn't a scammer he wouldn't leave such a gaping flaw in his concepts to exploit freely, that is my conclusion
12:56:39 (605159) <GamblingBad> raylene if u dont trust dooglus dont invest or gamble here,
12:56:45 (750722) <may> you DO need trust in the cryptoworld. a lot actually
12:56:48 (755992) <raylene> I don't need to catch one of the board members balls deep in kids assholes to know that he is a pedo
12:56:57 (372683) <aurelian> wtf?
12:57:01 (750722) <may> even if you only use full blockchain wallets
12:57:04 (4764) <@G.Wilco> if dooglus is losing credibility by the second then why does invested amount keep growing?
12:57:11 (755992) <raylene> same thing with scammers like dooglus
12:57:14 (650660) <Theo> raylene: why not just ask here. we would happily discuss everything. Why directly claim that he is a scammer?
12:57:14 (1) <@dooglus> i was looking for something i had lost
12:57:19 (755992) <raylene> because sheeple that's why
12:57:26 (755992) <raylene> or he keeps creating fake investments as well
12:57:29 (134004) <@SJ> lol
12:57:35 (134004) <@SJ> time for your medication raylene
12:57:45 (759635) <brandyne> lol raylene did you lose your btc in here ?
12:57:51 (755992) <raylene> never
12:57:52 (750722) <may> dooglus: cant you just show him the wallet addresses
12:57:53 *** vinton (757025) [#1194437183] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:57:53 (4764) <@G.Wilco> you can check hot wallet/cold storage if you want
12:57:56 (134004) <@SJ> he probably lost 0.000001 btc
12:57:56 (759635) <brandyne> i think you are just another sore loser
12:57:57 (755992) <raylene> I don't gamble like a degenerate
12:57:57 (733758) <cyndi-beth> fake investments? you can see balances in wallets, wtf?
12:57:59 (1470) <KLYE> Raylene. Kill yourself
12:58:04 (650660) <Theo> no, I want my privacy
12:58:04 (755992) <raylene> not even "invest" in shit like this
12:58:10 (134004) <@SJ> fuck off then
12:58:17 (1470) <KLYE> To spare the world having to hear your delusional bullshit
12:58:23 (750722) <may> why do you spend your time here then
12:58:24 (755992) <raylene> most people on here aren't nearly intelligent enough to comprehend the matters at hand
12:58:26 (650660) <Theo> nobody forces you to do so
12:58:30 (755992) <raylene> except Theo apparently
12:58:31 (1) <@dooglus> may: i pointed him at the faq twice where it is all linked. he 'knows' the truth already, and cant think further
12:58:46 (372683) <aurelian> not really "investing" but "bankrolling"
12:58:51 (605159) <GamblingBad> dooglus when u will answer me
12:58:55 (1470) <KLYE> Most people aren't paranoid schizophrenics like you either raylene.. It's not an advantage you have.. It's a sickness
12:58:56 (650660) <Theo> maybe, but nobody wants to listen to you, because you are just impolite
12:59:04 (372683) <aurelian> raylene just a troll
12:59:05 *** vinton (757025) [#1194438666] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
12:59:11 (372683) <aurelian> ban already
12:59:11 (134004) <@SJ> mega troll
12:59:13 (372683) <aurelian> ban hammer
12:59:21 (755992) <raylene> because I am an altruist that is concerned about your BTC don't bitch and moan on bitcointalk when this shit hits the gox fan again
12:59:23 (1470) <KLYE> *gives doog the nod*
12:59:27 (1470) <KLYE> altruist?
12:59:28 (1) <@dooglus> raylene: the mods are squabbling over who gets to mute you
12:59:36 (1470) <KLYE> Isn't that the cult from GTA5?
12:59:41 (750722) <may> thinking about how dooglus could be scamming is valid and good and just critical thinking. but dont just claim stuff you cant prove
12:59:50 (1470) <KLYE> Doog isn't a scammer.
12:59:54 (650660) <Theo> raylene, it would be okay to point out where you see the possibility for a scam
12:59:54 (743316) <flux-capacitor> klye , good call.
13:00:09 *** vinton (757025) [#1194439828] bet 0.15 BTC at 49.5% and won 0.15 BTC ***
13:00:03 (759481) <wynter> raylene has ass burgers
13:00:03 (152565) <SeuntjieBot> λ WARNING! 759481:wynter seems to be impersonating 421101:wynter λ
13:00:05 (1) <@dooglus> like i say im willing to discuss all this stuff
13:00:05 (1) <@dooglus> but raylene doesn't seem to be
13:00:05 (755992) <raylene> may look
13:00:08 (1470) <KLYE> And the 20 Million isn't enough for him to run with yet.
13:00:13 (1) <@dooglus> she makes little sense, and won't listen to reason
13:00:17 (650660) <Theo> but claiming this without evidence...I'm sorry to say so, that is trolling
13:00:20 (759635) <brandyne> raylene if you consider yourself this smart . tell us this why would someone spend so much of time and effort to make their investments seem higher to scam when doog can just take the btc and run
13:00:24 (737389) <cthulhu> maybe somebody's attempting to hack the servers tonight and sent a troll into the chatroom to distract you
13:00:24 (743316) <flux-capacitor> doog, u are expecting fact and reason
13:00:24 (1470) <KLYE> You can't reason with retards.
13:00:25 (755992) <raylene> I have already made this point twice
13:00:34 (743316) <flux-capacitor> that is too much for raylene
13:00:35 (1470) <KLYE> What point? That you don't trust doog?
13:00:36 (605159) <GamblingBad> no one can prove is scamme or not, so no point to disqus it. either u trust doog or u dont.
13:00:37 (755992) <raylene> what if I made a casino without any provable fariness
13:00:45 <system> (4764) <@G.Wilco> muted (755992) <raylene> for 3600 seconds
13:00:46 (91380) <Seuntjie> +1 <KLYE> You can't reason with retards.
13:00:47 (1) <@dooglus> there is provable fairness
13:00:48 (1470) <KLYE> You can't. and you won't
13:00:51 (759635) <brandyne> then assholes like you shud be kicked out
13:00:52 (733758) <cyndi-beth> klye, past performance does not guarantee future success. and we don't know dooglus in person, he exists only online. We take his word, and that's it. Still very risky. but he site has been here for years now, and if he wanted to make away, right now he
13:00:53 (134004) <@SJ> then youd make sometihng nothing like this site
13:00:54 (1470) <KLYE> and if you did.. you could call it dragons tale
13:01:01 (134004) <@SJ> lol
13:01:07 (733758) <cyndi-beth> could do so to the tune of $16.5M just from this site
13:01:11 (733758) <cyndi-beth> yet he doesnt
13:01:14 (733758) <cyndi-beth> that means something too
13:01:35 (759635) <brandyne> okay for all those who dont get it yet
13:01:38 (1470) <KLYE> As I said before. Doog isn't a scammer.. He needs to wait till invested is 100K before he pulls a karpeles.
13:01:40 (1) <@dooglus> cyndi: not quite 1 year yet - but the bankroll has been over 60k at times and I let people withdraw it down to 30k...
13:01:57 (1470) <KLYE> *jokes*
13:01:59 (750722) <may> its also easier for him. constant commission etc is a nice income. for for all his life if bitcoin doesnt crash.
13:02:01 (759635) <brandyne> what raylene is suggesting that doog doesnt posses any btc and his investment maybe virtual
13:02:07 (1470) <KLYE> LOL
13:02:07 (134004) <@SJ> the 2 biggest ever investors both withdrew no problem
13:02:13 (650660) <Theo> as fars is I got your point, ray, you are afraid of a pyramid scheme, right?
13:02:19 (1470) <KLYE> Doog has 4000+ BTC of his own
13:02:23 (733758) <cyndi-beth> you guys gotta look from his perspective too: we want to be able to meet him and know who he is, but if he started letting people do that, he would put all the BTC at risk too
13:02:26 (759635) <brandyne> hence profiting from JDS profits without having any btc
13:02:28 (1) <@dooglus> brandyne: I possess 39.5k BTC [19Zmw5kM]
13:02:46 (759635) <brandyne> doog i know
13:02:56 (750722) <may> proving that its not a ponzi has been done already
13:03:05 (1) <@dooglus> and each week I publish a list of investor balances, which add up to the same amount
13:03:08 (759635) <brandyne> but that dumbass raylene cant understand
13:03:09 (605159) <GamblingBad> mhmh wish i had that wallet=)
13:03:12 (759514) <shaneyney> doog what happens when you die? everyone lose their coins?
13:03:19 (650660) <Theo> hey
13:03:20 (1) <@dooglus> if I made up false investments, the total would be more than I own
13:03:23 (1470) <KLYE> No. Failsafe kicks in place
13:03:24 (759655) <jozelle> doog muted me
13:03:24 (1) <@dooglus> people would notice
13:03:29 (759655) <jozelle> hey Theo
13:03:36 (759655) <jozelle> doog why did you mute me
13:03:38 (1470) <KLYE> Doog has a dead mans switch
13:03:39 (605159) <GamblingBad> when dooglus dies i take over the site
13:03:45 (1) <@dooglus> jozelle: I didn't, but one of the mods finally got sick of you I guess
13:03:48 (650660) <Theo> this is an argument, doog did not bring before
13:03:49 (1470) <KLYE> False. i take the site over
13:03:54 (1) <@dooglus> GB: what's up?
13:03:56 (759655) <jozelle> right right
13:03:58 (650660) <Theo> so maybe this is enough for you, ray?
13:04:04 (605159) <GamblingBad> u will make poker site?
13:04:05 (759655) <jozelle> making too much sense perhaps?
13:04:06 (1470) <KLYE> I am the #1 JD champion.
13:04:12 <system> (134004) <@SJ> muted (759655) <jozelle> for 3600 seconds
13:04:13 (605159) <GamblingBad> just-poker.com
13:04:16 (759514) <shaneyney> doog does anyone else have access to those or when you die will you take all the coins with you?
13:04:18 (1) <@dooglus> Theo: I pointed him at the "ponzi" section of the FAQ, which explains all this in detail
13:04:21 <system> (4764) <@G.Wilco> muted all new users for 360 seconds
13:04:22 (750722) <may> it would be enough if dooglus caught a trojan and his wallet.dat got stolen. you CANT control all of that. but he claims to have offline storage so it SHOULD be safe. just like your bank safe is PROBABLY safe. but it COUULD be robbed.
13:04:22 (759635) <brandyne> fuck someone punch this guy in the throat and shut him up
13:04:28 (650660) <Theo> ok
13:04:42 (1470) <KLYE> Jozelle. you are obviosuly to retarded for logic. Please kill yourself and any children you have to prevent your stupidity from further polluting the gene pool of humanity.. thanks
13:04:50 (678506) <ricky> LOL
13:04:55 (678506) <ricky> what is going on
13:04:58 (733758) <cyndi-beth> may, your bank stored money is insured by the FDIC to a certain amount
13:04:59 (1) <@dooglus> may: the 39.5k is on a laptop that never goes online
13:05:01 (134004) <@SJ> kyle always says it with a style i could never manage
13:05:03 (743316) <flux-capacitor> klye is direct
13:05:01 (733758) <cyndi-beth> this isnt
13:05:06 (759514) <shaneyney> doog does anyone else have access to those or when you die will you take all the coins with you?
13:05:27 (1470) <KLYE> I am a man of well thought out words.\
13:05:33 (1) <@dooglus> shaneyney: nobody else has access so long as I keep pressing the button
13:05:41 (750722) <may> dooglus: i believe since everybody sane would do the same. arguing is pointless here anyway
13:05:58 (759635) <brandyne> no wonder he is so good at begging
13:06:05 (733758) <cyndi-beth> dooglus, how many backups of the wallet.dat do you have, and are they all on magnetic mediums such as hdd's?
13:06:07 (759514) <shaneyney> you have a backup plan if you die?
13:06:08 (650660) <Theo> @doog, her points were valid, but she did not just ask about them
13:06:13 (757463) <Abundance> when u have35k btc death could not take u
13:06:35 (757463) <Abundance> doog atm is immortal that's why he doesn't use them
13:06:35 (678506) <ricky> dooglus if you ever need some landscaping work done just say you buried the wallet.dat in the plot you need dug
13:06:37 (739766) <Homer> @doog : out of curiosity, what would happen if something did happen to you? what would happen to the coins
13:06:37 (152565) <SeuntjieBot> λ WARNING! 739766:Homer seems to be impersonating 757646:Homer λ
13:06:51 (650660) <Theo> deb would pay us?
13:06:53 (1470) <KLYE> Go fuck the wall raylene/jozelle. It might might be pointless as this fight but atleast you'll feel better afterwords.. of course we will still think you are retarded but it will prevent you from further fagging this chat up. -_-
13:07:02 (4764) <@G.Wilco> homer pm me your address and i'll add you to the list to stop that message
13:07:08 (739766) <Homer> ty
13:07:14 (750722) <may> cyndi-beth: just pointing to cyprus. if the govmt wants to fuck you up they just do. stealing from the cypriots was commissioned by the EU. dont you think the US could do the same? you cant really have absolute security
13:07:37 (733758) <cyndi-beth> may, agreed. but it's another layer of protection
13:07:41 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194449929] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and lost ***
13:07:39 (678506) <ricky> point to ireland. the EU is forcing citizens to pay bank debt
13:07:41 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194449959] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:07:41 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194449995] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:07:43 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194450026] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:07:44 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194450094] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and lost ***
13:07:47 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194450129] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:07:47 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194450159] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and lost ***
13:07:47 (1) <@dooglus> cyndi: I have plenty of backups, and some are on solid state
13:07:49 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194450191] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:07:50 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194450213] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:07:49 (678506) <ricky> how does that even make sense or how is it allowed?
13:07:51 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194450272] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:07:57 (733758) <cyndi-beth> and under normal circumstances you can use it if shit hits the fan, ie. a bank goes belly up
13:08:05 (650660) <Theo> ok, guys, I was happy to talk to you
13:08:11 (650660) <Theo> but work is calling
13:08:24 (1) <@dooglus> Theo: I'm not sure that she really had any valid points. I think you may be reading more into what she said than she meant
13:08:32 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194451435] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:08:35 (733758) <cyndi-beth> thanks dooglus, I figured this much, but a lot of people rely only on magnetic backups
13:08:40 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194451685] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:08:40 (1) <@dooglus> Theo: but please, if you can find any germ of reason in there that I didn't already counter...
13:09:10 (1) <@dooglus> oh, ok
13:09:16 (650660) <Theo> @doog: for someone who was uninformed it was valid. In I think the chat is there for answering it
13:09:32 (733758) <cyndi-beth> the approach was bad
13:09:35 (739766) <Homer> .
13:09:50 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194453715] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:09:52 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194453775] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:09:53 (1) <@dooglus> Theo: yes, I don't mind answering such questions. she didn't do very well though - it was quite a mish-mash of fuzzy accusations
13:09:55 (750722) <may> the only safe thing is probably gold stored under your house protected by a private army plus owning stock in all of the big companies.
13:10:01 (136) <@sqwerty> 17200 holding strong we're going up!
13:10:08 (759514) <shaneyney> Im going to drive thru all of canada with a magnet in a moving truck breaking bad style and see if you can protect agains that
13:10:13 (134004) <@SJ> doog needs to hit the doom switch
13:10:14 (650660) <Theo> her assumptions were: 1. you do not own many btc
13:10:14 (750722) <may> LOL
13:10:29 (650660) <Theo> 2. not many people use this site
13:10:40 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194455099] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:10:44 (1) <@dooglus> her main point seemed to be "there's no way you've really had 1.2 billion bets, so you must be faking it"
13:10:51 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194455495] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:10:52 (678506) <ricky> lol
13:10:54 (750722) <may> Theo: theres even guides and clones on the web that explain how to create scams like the one suggested.
13:11:04 (650660) <Theo> yes
13:11:04 (1) <@dooglus> I expect that comes from "I have a dice site and nobody uses it. Waaaah"
13:11:08 (750722) <may> and everyday people get scammed. you just gotta earn reputation
13:11:13 (134004) <@SJ> probably someone who owns a pathetic failing scam dice site crying that they cant bring in revenue
13:11:18 (650660) <Theo> no, doog
13:11:25 (650660) <Theo> it came from her arguments
13:12:01 (1) <@dooglus> wasn't the arguement "you fake bets to make it look busier, to attract investors, and players"?
13:12:13 (4764) <@G.Wilco> !s user 739766
13:12:13 (152565) <SeuntjieBot> λ User not found λ
13:12:16 (1) <@dooglus> that's the motive, and I clearly have the opportunity - so I'm guilty?
13:12:22 (730457) <dragon> hello
13:12:23 *** leelasha (757172) [#1194458173] bet 0.1 BTC at 55% and won 0.08 BTC ***
13:12:25 (650660) <Theo> she wanted to see txids ... because if you do not have much money, you can hardly face bets with showing txids
13:12:27 (678506) <ricky> you said yourself you don't even necessarily want more investors so
13:12:33 <system> (4764) <@G.Wilco> muted all new users for 0 seconds
13:12:48 (678506) <ricky> they're just stupid
13:12:56 (650660) <Theo> @doog, I tried to tell her: not because you could, this means that you do
13:13:08 (1) <@dooglus> I just don't think showing txids helps at all, while affecting everyone's privacy
13:13:20 (650660) <Theo> that was also my point
13:13:33 (1) <@dooglus> also, if you want to see someone's deposit transactions, you can look up their deposit address on the bot and go from there?
13:13:35 (733758) <cyndi-beth> frankly, I see no motive to do anything that would jeopardize this business
13:13:37 (650660) <Theo> I said, I understood her arguments. I did not say that I agree with them
13:13:54 (584175) <BouvieR> "her"
13:13:55 (1) <@dooglus> right. her conclusions didn't follow from her premises
13:13:56 (584175) <BouvieR> "she"
13:14:04 (1) <@dooglus> clearly a girl on the internets
13:14:09 (678506) <ricky> lol
13:14:14 (650660) <Theo> and is definitely the very wrong way to call you a scammer to start the discussion
13:14:59 (733758) <cyndi-beth> does this conversation transpire every time dooglus comes in here?
13:15:03 (1) <@dooglus> also, most of the bets here are tiny
13:15:05 (733758) <cyndi-beth> with accusations and stuff?
13:15:15 (1) <@dooglus> it wouldn't take much BTC to fake enough deposits to support the level of betting we see
13:15:37 (650660) <Theo> but doog, that was her point
13:15:51 (650660) <Theo> she said: show us the transactions, you can not fake that
13:16:12 (650660) <Theo> she saw only the numbers here on the site
13:16:46 (730457) <dragon> good leelasha
13:16:54 (723513) <Djarno> doogles, can you add an option for custom max bets ?
13:16:56 (650660) <Theo> it doesn't take long to set up a system that just looks like many bets are made, if nobody sees the wallets behind it
13:17:10 (723513) <Djarno> you know sometimes you dont realize howmuch u bet
13:17:13 (584175) <BouvieR> Djarno Unchained !
13:17:20 (650660) <Theo> at least that's how I understood her

[seuntjie]

(will address doogluses long post in a second)
My point was that if someone leaves out this huge potential flaw in the logic of their website in exchange for little to no (supposed) gain then it is incredibly suspicious.

If I theoretically decided to run an online casino but not integrate any provable fairness at all and assure players that I will choose a random number from 0 to 10 on every bet in an honest manner, am I then a scammer despite the players having no concrete evidence showing that I am favoring one of them?

My opinion is that dooglus is a scammer until proven otherwise, the fact is that there is a huge flaw which could potentially be exploited.

I will not argue your logic, I will leave that up to Dooglus. All that I still want to say is: innocent until proven guilty, NOT the other way around.

[m5j0r]

Edit: dooglus was faster posting the log
it's mostly tl;dr though because it's basically repetition

btw: I also don't like people behaving like they just crawled out of a dumpster *looking at KLYE and friends* but that's the internet, period.

edit2: just saw that your bitcointalk reputation is negative, while dooglus' is positive. Really? WTF were you thinking when accusing people from an account like this?