Debt refinance loan on BTCJam

[minerbobbert]

Hi - verified borrower on BTC Jam - just placed my first loan request so I would appreciate anyone having a look.

https://btcjam.com/listings/13130

I have paid back over $11000 in the past to other peer to peer lending sites (Prosper.com).

[monbux]

- New user
- Super low (D+) rating on BTCjam
- BTCjam is a scammer's hideout
- 1% interested lol for such a high risk...

Oh yeh. No collateral.

[minerbobbert]

- New user
Everyone has to sign up sometime.

- Super low (D+) rating on BTCjam
Partly from being new, I have no idea how else they come to this number. American credit score is 630 now, not stellar, but related to this credit card that I'm trying to pay off for being at high debt usage.

- BTCjam is a scammer's hideout
I get that there are plenty of scammers there, so I'm Feel free to not invest if you feel hesitant about it. I always pay back my loans.

- 1% interested lol for such a high risk...
First off, that is 1% per month, any higher and I'd be higher than the credit card I am trying to refinance in the first place. Why would I ask for a loan that will cost me more money than the debt I am refinancing?

- Oh yeh. No collateral.
BTCJam doesn't ask for collateral, so I didn't put anything up. I'm not asking for the loan here, I went through BTCJam's verification and will be subject to their arbitration should I try anything. If I was asking here, I'd put up collateral. But I really don't get that - people here want collateral in an alternate crypto currency, which makes no sense. If I had the collateral, why would I need the loan in the first place?

[KWH]

- New user
Everyone has to sign up sometime.

- Super low (D+) rating on BTCjam
Partly from being new, I have no idea how else they come to this number. American credit score is 630 now, not stellar, but related to this credit card that I'm trying to pay off for being at high debt usage.

- BTCjam is a scammer's hideout
I get that there are plenty of scammers there, so I'm Feel free to not invest if you feel hesitant about it. I always pay back my loans.

- 1% interested lol for such a high risk...
First off, that is 1% per month, any higher and I'd be higher than the credit card I am trying to refinance in the first place. Why would I ask for a loan that will cost me more money than the debt I am refinancing?

- Oh yeh. No collateral.
BTCJam doesn't ask for collateral, so I didn't put anything up. I'm not asking for the loan here, I went through BTCJam's verification and will be subject to their arbitration should I try anything. If I was asking here, I'd put up collateral. But I really don't get that - people here want collateral in an alternate crypto currency, which makes no sense. If I had the collateral, why would I need the loan in the first place?

People fail at reading and/or comprehension. 

[monbux]

BTCJam doesn't ask for collateral, so I didn't put anything up. I'm not asking for the loan here, I went through BTCJam's verification and will be subject to their arbitration should I try anything.

Which brings me back to my strong(est) point: you offer no collateral, no security for the lenders.  How would they know if you will pay them back or not?  Your word is not enough on the internet... especially in bitcoin.

Net-arb?  They don't do shit xD  They provide a bit of info after 90 days + a couple of months before they start an arbitration + another half year+ before they give you the actual info.

[Corporate]

Are you willing to provide ME with your details, so I can verify before sending the loan?
 The fact that some other website thinks they know who you are does no good to me.

[minerbobbert]

"Are you willing to provide ME with your details, so I can verify before sending the loan?
 The fact that some other website thinks they know who you are does no good to me."

Depends on what info you want - I can upload my credit report or my financial aid awards as income verification, depersonalized since this is the internet, after all.

If you want my home address and social security number, I'd rather leave that to an established business...

What kind of thing were you thinking of?

[minerbobbert]

"People fail at reading and/or comprehension. "

I meant collateral in terms of alternate cryptocurrency. It doesn't make sense to ask for a loan of $1000, and someone asks you to put up $1000 in collateral.

Sometimes people fail at basic logic as well.

[KWH]

"People fail at reading and/or comprehension. "

I meant collateral in terms of alternate cryptocurrency. It doesn't make sense to ask for a loan of $1000, and someone asks you to put up $1000 in collateral.

Sometimes people fail at basic logic as well.

You are an idiot. Best you stick to btcjam. Newbie trying to milk funds from investors without anything viable and you knock collateral? Go to a bank with your story, let's see what rates you get without collateral.
Read/comprehension/logic FAIL.

[KWH]

Let's go a little further:

Assuming you finance and don't purshase out right:
You buy a home you give the deed to the lender for the duration of loan. Appraisal value is used in the consideration of the loan, correct? It covers the actual loan or exceeds it.

Buying a car, same thing, the lender holds the title for loan duration. Value of the car is taken into consideration before the loan is giver, correct?

Congratulations, you are giving collateral for your loans as well as your complete ID, financial checks, credit checks, work history and SS number. They also know where you live and won't hesitate to reclaim property in case of default. Not much a BTC lender can do with your ID,(assuming it is real).
Now do you understand why collateral is needed?

Alt coin collateral: Had you done a little reading in the forums, you would know many want to keep their coins for speculation, this further insures the loan repayment.

[Tomatocage]

"People fail at reading and/or comprehension. "

I meant collateral in terms of alternate cryptocurrency. It doesn't make sense to ask for a loan of $1000, and someone asks you to put up $1000 in collateral.

Sometimes people fail at basic logic as well.

Why take out a home equity loan when you could just sell your house, right?

[minerbobbert]

Yes, that is how it works with secured loans.

Now explain the process with a credit card or other unsecured loan.

I understand that secured loans are exactly that - secured - but the point of peer to peer lending sites is to help facilitate unsecured loans. That is why they can command higher rates.

I get it that you don't trust me. I suppose it was a mistake to post here.



"Congratulations, you are giving collateral for your loans as well as your complete ID, financial checks, credit checks, work history and SS number. They also know where you live and won't hesitate to reclaim property in case of default. Not much a BTC lender can do with your ID,(assuming it is real).
Now do you understand why collateral is needed?"


Again, the point of peer to peer lending is supposed to be to facilitate unsecured loans. If this is the main concern, I would say it is the failure of the lending platform to adequately vet their applicants or collect on defaulted loans, thus creating the attitude that "everyone is a scammer" that is prevalent on these threads. Even though (as in BTCJam's site) 90% of the people are scammers, that means the honest borrowers get lost in the process.

The second aspect of this is the collateral scammers. There is no reason I would want to put up anything I have of value to some stranger here who could simply take the collateral and run. Scamming can both ways. That is why the intermediary of a lending platform like BTCJam is supposed to even these out. By verifying identities and pursuing those who default (the latter of which it looks like BTCJam fails at), it should entice lenders to trust their listings. What is going on here is nothing more than an internet pawn shop - and it would be easier for me to simply go to a local pawn shop if I needed money that badly.

Frankly, I don't need the money that badly. I was hoping to save a few bucks on interest rates on my credit card and help out the bitcoin community since I believe in it.

Looks like the community isn't ready for Peer to Peer lending yet.



"Alt coin collateral: Had you done a little reading in the forums, you would know many want to keep their coins for speculation, this further insures the loan repayment."

Isn't lending at these rates speculation in the first place?

[Vod]

Looks like the community isn't ready for Peer to Peer lending yet.

That's because you don't understand the community.  You came in here, took no time to learn our culture and rules, and just started begging for money.   

[KWH]

Credit cards still have all your information, use your credit scores and adjust your amount on this information. Instead of collateral you are paying huge interest. Default and you will be served and off to court you will go. Liens on your property and wage garnishment for you. That's your trade off. None of that happens with BTC (or rarely) and I think you know just that. Are you really that dense or just think we are?
When in a hole, first thing you do is stop digging.

[minerbobbert]

"That's because you don't understand the community.  You came in here, took no time to learn our culture and rules, and just started begging for money."

Vod, first off, I wasn't begging. Begging implies asking for no return, whereas a transaction between a lender and a borrower implies a business arrangement where both benefit - one party gets access to liquid funds, the other gets a return that beats other investments. But you are right, I didn't understand the community. If I had, I wouldn't have posted here, because you folks certainly aren't welcoming to new people. That is probably related to a history of being burned on loans, but I was labeled a scammer from my first post here. I'll keep working with BTCJam in case they ever improve or the industry does, but this will be my last post in the "lending" portion of bitcointalk. You folks have made it clear you are too skeptical or have been burned one too many times to make it welcoming to newbies. Like I said, I don't need the money that badly.

What this community looks like to a newbie is actually rather scary - people posting internet petitions for loans and demands for collateral. It just stinks of fishy. Collateral sharks could take whatever is put up and flee, scammers can take funds and split. Sure, using an escrow service could mitigate this (which is what forums like BTCJam are supposed to provide) but that just moves the trust issue up a step. Why would I trust a certain escrow service over another one? I figured I would bypass that whole messy business and use BTCJam, which verifies my identity and (supposedly) provides a means of collection through arbitration that would allow lenders to do a credit based loan rather than a secured loan. It turns out my faith in BTCJam was rather misplaced.

What I was talking about the bitcoin community not being ready for peer to peer lending was in regards to the bitcoin community as a whole (ie, worldwide) not solely this forum. What I meant was that bitcoin peer to peer lending is not ready for prime time. The best marketplace out there right now is BTCJam, and as your posts have shown, there is practically zero trust that loans there will get repaid or that defaulters will be collected on. That means there is hardly any incentive for lenders to go there. From the "collateral rules" post:

"- The best collateral is another crypto-currency, such as Litecoin (also written as LTC).
- Some digital wares such as domain names can be considered as long as the user cannot recover it.
- Small valuable items that can be shipped though the mail - i.e. gold, silver, iphones, etc.
- Large items, such as a motorcycle or guitar can be used if you live close to the person giving you the loan."

Again, if the best collateral is an alternate cryptocurrency, there is no point in getting a loan. One doesn't need a loan for cash if one has cash on hand. All the other examples of collateral (the physical objects) have absolutely no value to use in this setting over that of a local pawn broker, who could easily give value for value loans on items, and at a much easier and secure manner than trying to ship something out of town to an escrow service.

In short, from the borrower's side, there is no advantage to using a peer to peer format if this is the requirement.

If neither the borrower nor the lender have an incentive to use a peer to peer lending system, why would they? No wonder you guys are so jaded into thinking everyone is a scammer - that is the only person left. You have no way of sorting out the wheat from the chaff.

That is what I meant when I said the bitcoin community isn't ready for peer to peer lending. There is no trustworthy venue for borrowers or lenders that exists right now. Perhaps someone with more entrepreneurial spirit and time than I will set something up. Perhaps BTCJam or one of its competitors will fix these issues. But in the meantime, I stand by my statement.

To KWH:
"Credit cards still have all your information, use your credit scores and adjust your amount on this information. Instead of collateral you are paying huge interest. Default and you will be served and off to court you will go. Liens on your property and wage garnishment for you. That's your trade off. None of that happens with BTC (or rarely) and I think you know just that. Are you really that dense or just think we are?
When in a hole, first thing you do is stop digging."

It wasn't a matter of being dense. It seems more like a trust issue between you and the intermediary I was using of BTCJam. If they have no follow up on people who default, of course you will have issues with them.

Thanks for the good times. Vod, you can go back to licking your boob, and I'll keep making my card payments. Too bad I'm paying that interest to a credit card company instead of a bitcoin enthusiast.

Perhaps if you folks wanted more opportunities to lend and make money, you should work on creating an inviting atmosphere where you help people through the process rather than label them as scammers, closed case. You are chasing away the honest borrowers who would actually give you a return on your money and perpetuating the cycle. Maybe you could channel some of that energy into creating a site where borrowers and lenders feel confident doing business.

Peace.

[KWH]

You have NO trust, offer nothing, only words typed on a forum. They mean NOTHING and this has proven true over and over again. Shame newbies can't get some seat time before asking for loans. We see it everyday so spare us your illusions of BTC loan grandeur.
FWIW, why don't YOU start a place for lending? Would be interesting to see how long you last before being scammed out of everything you own. Perhaps you would be the scammer? Who knows.

[deadley]

guys dont waste time with these kind of scammer, they just make new account daily and try to scam.

[SirChiko]

How come he has -11 trust rating if he has only 2 written negative feedback?

[minerbobbert]

For those who labeled me a scammer (and threw on my negative rating), I'd just like to point out that I paid off the loan today.

That is all.

[Tomatocage]

For those who labeled me a scammer (and threw on my negative rating), I'd just like to point out that I paid off the loan today.

That is all.

Thank you for the followup. I'm sure if you PM the ones who left you negative feedback, with a link to the loan page demonstrating that you have successfully paid back, they'd be more than happy to reevaluate your rating