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Author Topic: Morons talking about bitcoin  (Read 3368 times)
grondilu
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April 20, 2011, 07:52:03 PM
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Since Jerry Britto's article came out on TIME, I've seen quite a few articles about bitcoin from smart asses blogs.

Some are bashing bitcoin, some are just expressing their skepticism.  But most of what I read pisses me off, and that's why I think we should stop promoting bitcoin.

People should learn about bitcoin by themselves.  After all, there is a wikipedia page, and the bitcoin.org website is explanatory enough.

Random morons should not be taught about bitcoins.  They don't deserve it if they never made any personnal research about digital money.  Why would anyone spend energy trying to convince someone about something, if this person has never manifest any interest in the subject?

Improve the bitcoin website.  Expand the FAQ, the wiki, make it resilient to government shutdown.  But please, stop promoting bitcoin to people who don't deserve it.
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baslisks
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April 20, 2011, 08:06:33 PM
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If you don't promote bitcoin, no one is going to know what bitcoin is and dismiss it or just be in plain ignorance.

 There needs to better documentation on the subject but calling people and morons and saying they don't deserve it is not the way to do it. Set down, talk to your friends about it, put some money where your mouth is, and educate people about what is actually happening in the community. Bitcoin is in a unique position to have a fairly successful market share. Its already trading better than a dollar a coin, it seems like legit businesses are using it to do trade and to do commerce.

Stay out of the ivory towers and get in the dirt and do some action. Those with clean hands lie.
baslisks
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April 20, 2011, 08:07:55 PM
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I see you said take action but I got a bit incensed at the wanton flailing of the word morn and the feeling of deserved and not deserved. Why don't they deserve to be aware of bitcoin?
grondilu
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April 20, 2011, 08:12:55 PM
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Why don't they deserve to be aware of bitcoin?

Because they have never tried to know about it.

How hard is it to google "digital money", to follow a few links and to come up with a wikipedia page that mentions bitcoin, Ripple and stuffs like that?

How hard is it to wonder if there exist a decentralised currency? 

To me, we don't have to spend energy to teach bitcoin to someone who has never even tried to do such a basic research.
baslisks
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April 20, 2011, 08:19:13 PM
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They may be blissfully ignorant of the alternatives to their current system. They may not even be aware that an alternative can exist. If they learn about Bitcoin through a crappy blog post deriding it and come here seeing people call them a moron, you may be chasing away investors, hackers, and intellectuals who would love to help the Bitcoin Movement.
barbarousrelic
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April 20, 2011, 08:22:49 PM
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Since Jerry Britto's article came out on TIME, I've seen quite a few articles about bitcoin from smart asses blogs.

Some are bashing bitcoin, some are just expressing their skepticism.  But most of what I read pisses me off, and that's why I think we should stop promoting bitcoin.

People should learn about bitcoin by themselves.  After all, there is a wikipedia page, and the bitcoin.org website is explanatory enough.

Random morons should not be taught about bitcoins.  They don't deserve it if they never made any personnal research about digital money.  Why would anyone spend energy trying to convince someone about something, if this person has never manifest any interest in the subject?

Improve the bitcoin website.  Expand the FAQ, the wiki, make it resilient to government shutdown.  But please, stop promoting bitcoin to people who don't deserve it.

I don't understand. What forms of "promoting Bitcoin" are people doing that you think should be stopped? Are you saying we should stop talking about it to our friends?

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
BitterTea
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April 20, 2011, 08:28:06 PM
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Because they have never tried to know about it.

How hard is it to google "digital money", to follow a few links and to come up with a wikipedia page that mentions bitcoin, Ripple and stuffs like that?

How hard is it to wonder if there exist a decentralised currency? 

To me, we don't have to spend energy to teach bitcoin to someone who has never even tried to do such a basic research.

Why, that's a mighty high horse you've got there.

Most people have been told all of their lives that state control over money is necessary and desirable. Bitcoin flies in the face of that idea. Bitcoin cannot become widely adopted merely waiting for people to find it and understand why it is good on their own. We need to get out there and educate people about the nature of money. Fuck, most people don't even realize that the reason prices have risen over the last 100 years is almost entirely due to monetary inflation by the Federal Reserve.
grondilu
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April 20, 2011, 08:28:19 PM
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I don't understand. What forms of "promoting Bitcoin" are people doing that you think should be stopped? Are you saying we should stop talking about it to our friends?

Not to your friends.  To general public.  Basically to anyone you don't know.
baslisks
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April 20, 2011, 08:31:39 PM
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I don't understand. What forms of "promoting Bitcoin" are people doing that you think should be stopped? Are you saying we should stop talking about it to our friends?

Not to your friends.  To general public.  Basically to anyone you don't know.

I can't talk to random strangers about my interests? So no talking about music theory, electronics, 3d printing, and various other topics? That is not how a society works. You may stick to that but I won't. I like the influx of new insights and ideas into my thought, it makes for stronger thoughts. Conversation is one of the easiest ways of spreading memetic data.
grondilu
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April 20, 2011, 08:32:10 PM
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Most people have been told all of their lives that state control over money is necessary and desirable. Bitcoin flies in the face of that idea.

Not just bitcoin.  Gold and silver too.  And yet people are still bashing goldbugs.

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Bitcoin cannot become widely adopted merely waiting for people to find it and understand why it is desirable on their own.

Bitcoin doesn't have to be widely adopted to be efficient.  I've said it several times and I repeat it.

If you rely on the smartness of the majority of people, you are screwed.
baslisks
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April 20, 2011, 08:34:15 PM
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Most people have been told all of their lives that state control over money is necessary and desirable. Bitcoin flies in the face of that idea.

Not just bitcoin.  Gold and silver too.  And yet people are still bashing goldbugs.

Quote
Bitcoin cannot become widely adopted merely waiting for people to find it and understand why it is desirable on their own.

Bitcoin doesn't have to be widely adopted to be efficient.  I've said it several times and I repeat it.

If you rely on the smartness of the majority of people, you are screwed.

Is there anything you can rationally say we can say to change your mind that talking about bitcoin to not well known people is a good thing?
grondilu
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April 20, 2011, 08:36:14 PM
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I can't talk to random strangers about my interests? So no talking about music theory, electronics, 3d printing, and various other topics?

Write it in an encyclopedia such as Wikipedia, where people are free to get those informations, if they are interested.

But don't just show off your knowledge at random places.  People don't just lecture other people by talking with a megaphone on the streets.  Don't do that on internet either.


BitterTea
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April 20, 2011, 08:37:58 PM
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Not just bitcoin.  Gold and silver too.  And yet people are still bashing goldbugs.

All the more reason why education is necessary. There is also the problem where gold enthusiasts deride Bitcoin because it's not "backed by anything". It's not obvious to them that gold is not "backed by anything" either, because gold has been used as a currency for so long. This is an educational problem.

Bitcoin doesn't have to be widely adopted to be efficient.  I've said it several times and I repeat it.

What does efficiency have to do with anything? I want to use Bitcoin as my primary unit of exchange. I want to pay for my food with BTC, pay rent in BTC, get paid in BTC. None of that is going to happen (outside of perhaps a small community) unless we are able to convince people that Bitcoin is worth more than fiat currency. Again, this is an educational problem.

If you rely on the smartness of the majority of people, you are screwed.

Not really. Think herd mentality. We just have to convince some significant minority of "regular joes" that Bitcoin is worthwhile. They will convince the rest.
baslisks
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April 20, 2011, 08:41:15 PM
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I don't use a megaphone. Its a conversation topic. It comes up. We talk about it. They write down the name and google it. I heard about Bitcoin from a guy on the internet I have talked to like 5 times in my life. Asked him whats up and he responded mining for bitcoins. I asked what that was and now I own some shiny bitcoins of my own. Thats strangers talking in public about a Bitcoin resulting in a positive experience by BOTH.
grondilu
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April 20, 2011, 08:43:14 PM
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What does efficiency have to do with anything? I want to use Bitcoin as my primary unit of exchange. I want to pay for my food with BTC, pay rent in BTC, get paid in BTC. None of that is going to happen (outside of perhaps a small community) unless we are able to convince people that Bitcoin is worth more than fiat currency. Again, this is an educational problem.

You're wrong.  I pay my rent, my food and pretty much everything I buy with gold.  And yet gold is not the primary currency in my country.   As long as there are efficient market exchange places, you can use pretty much any currency you want.
bitdragon
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April 20, 2011, 08:45:15 PM
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I'll rely on my intuition and common sense and spread bitcoins far and wide, even more to the apparent ignorant stuck up fool. Even the latter can be the tipping point for forthcoming ideas and courage not even imagined yet.

Out of all the news out there, it is some comment bashing bitcoins that upset you? There is clearly room for more compassion in your life.

I am in no position, and I humbly believe you neither, to judge that certain people don't 'deserve' such knowledge, be it about bitcoins, health, diet, music, science, consciousness etc.


BitterTea
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April 20, 2011, 08:46:14 PM
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What does efficiency have to do with anything? I want to use Bitcoin as my primary unit of exchange. I want to pay for my food with BTC, pay rent in BTC, get paid in BTC. None of that is going to happen (outside of perhaps a small community) unless we are able to convince people that Bitcoin is worth more than fiat currency. Again, this is an educational problem.

You're wrong.  I pay my rent, my food and pretty much everything I buy with gold.  And yet gold is not the primary currency in my country.   As long as there are efficient market exchange places, you can use pretty much any currency you want.


Unless you're directly exchanging gold for goods and services, you're only using gold as a store of value, not medium of exchange. I want to use Bitcoin as a medium of exchange everywhere. Do you see the difference?
grondilu
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April 20, 2011, 08:49:18 PM
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I am in no position, and I humbly believe you neither, to judge that certain people don't 'deserve' such knowledge, be it about bitcoins, health, diet, music, science, consciousness etc.

Think about Genjix's conference in front of banksters in Amsterdam.  To me it was a huge mistake.   It is just as if some french officier had spent a few times in Germany in 1938, talking about his military job to german soldiers.

Although this is an extreme example, to me it's the archetype of what should not be done.

Make knowledge available, but don't try to push it in people's head.
grondilu
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April 20, 2011, 08:50:59 PM
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Unless you're directly exchanging gold for goods and services, you're only using gold as a store of value, not medium of exchange. I want to use Bitcoin as a medium of exchange everywhere. Do you see the difference?

Yeah, I see the difference.  I guess.  But I don't think it's relevant.  In both ways, at the end the result is the same:  I had the stuffs I wanted to have.
BitterTea
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April 20, 2011, 08:58:16 PM
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Unless you're directly exchanging gold for goods and services, you're only using gold as a store of value, not medium of exchange. I want to use Bitcoin as a medium of exchange everywhere. Do you see the difference?

Yeah, I see the difference.  I guess.  But I don't think it's relevant.  In both ways, at the end the result is the same:  I had the stuffs I wanted to have.

Then you're ignorant of the importance of BTC denominated prices. I'm not going to bother trying to educate you since you're a moron. If you can't figure out the difference yourself, you don't deserve to use Bitcoin.
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