Desktop App needs "Add Bitcoins" Command

[rand0mmm]

Sorry if this is a noob question, but it still seems valid, as a UI-UX App design question...

As a new user wanting/expecting a single point of entry for all this, there is nowhere in the desktop App to "Add Bitcoins" to my account, so assuming I owe someone money, and they have a bitcoin address I can transcribe, where do I add money to send them? Right now I all I have is my .05 from the nice robot.

And even if the function is not in the app, the app can still throw to the website or where ever makes sense to get convert $ into bitcoins.

Thanks for listening.

[grue]

there's a similar proposal:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5171

[ByteCoin]

there's a similar proposal:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5171

Grue: I'm not seeing the relevance of the link in your post. It doesn't seem similar at all.

The point rand0mmm is making is that someone hearing about bitcoin, downloading and running the software and then wanting to transfer or buy something with bitcoins has to jump through lots of hoops to get them. The way I'd get bitcoins now is by signing up for an account on mtgox or some similar site and then going through the process of transferring money etc.

Presumably rand0mmm would like a little tab in the client saying "Add bitcoins" which would ask for credit card details or something similar so he could purchase some bitcoins using dollars or whatever his local currency is.

It's a far cry from what the client does at the moment but, if you see it through a beginner's eyes, it's a perfectly reasonable expectation from a "proper" application.

In the olden days you could just click on generate coins but with the proof of work so suitable for GPU mining, you might as well remove it.

Of course, the alternative would be to have a proof of work that was more suitable for CPUs. Something more memory intensive and possibly useful see http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=203.msg3669#msg3669 and the rest of the thread for details. The target could be that half the proofs of work are just hashing and half are useful computations more suited to CPUs with memory.
GPU miners would shout and scream about losing their monopoly but I think the result would be a healthy re-engagement of the CPU owning community. Also, the "generate coins" button would start to do something again!

ByteCoin

[Luke-Jr]

This depends on some kind of standard API to interface with markets, and a centralized list of markets providing the service. Clients can then allow the user to search by accepted payment method, warn them that it's through a third party, and display a list of exchanges sorted by price...

[rand0mmm]

Bytecoin gets it...
Since new users often miss obvious things, it's important to make features clear and simple.

Currently, in the app there no way to, nor help on, converting my funds into usable bitcoins.

There must be some current best way to do that, what is it?
If the app can do it, it should, otherwise do the next best thing, or at least give me, mr. clueless, a clue how to go do it.
As I said, toss me to a web page, or a directory of bitcoin conversion services or whatever you are using now.

And I certainly am not asking what card validation service works best with the bitcoin api. New users won't be writing their own clients.

Presumably, the current bitcoin client I have been running is there to provide me some sort of bitcoin utility, maybe that is my mistake...
If I can't put cash in, then probably no one else can. Eventually someone may send me another nickel, and then I might give someone a dime.
Possibly they could accrue into a large usable pile before monetary inflation and hard drive failures evaporate them...

[marcus_of_augustus]

Bytecoin gets it...
Since new users often miss obvious things, it's important to make features clear and simple.

Currently, in the app there no way to, nor help on, converting my funds into usable bitcoins.

There must be some current best way to do that, what is it?
If the app can do it, it should, otherwise do the next best thing, or at least give me, mr. clueless, a clue how to go do it.
As I said, toss me to a web page, or a directory of bitcoin conversion services or whatever you are using now.

And I certainly am not asking what card validation service works best with the bitcoin api. New users won't be writing their own clients.

Presumably, the current bitcoin client I have been running is there to provide me some sort of bitcoin utility, maybe that is my mistake...
If I can't put cash in, then probably no one else can. Eventually someone may send me another nickel, and then I might give someone a dime.
Possibly they could accrue into a large usable pile before monetary inflation and hard drive failures evaporate them...

Here's some links

http://www.bitcoin.org

click on the link to the Wiki/Help

[Mike Hearn]

Guys be polite please. The request is a very sensible one. A "Get BitCoins" button that opened a web page with some helpful guidance would be a great feature to have.

Better download pages on the website could also help. Like a ... "now you have the software, go here to get some coins" type page.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Guys be polite please. The request is a very sensible one. A "Get BitCoins" button that opened a web page with some helpful guidance would be a great feature to have.

Better download pages on the website could also help. Like a ... "now you have the software, go here to get some coins" type page.

Just a simple link "Get BitCoins" button on the client to here as a rough first cut maybe .... ?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Currency_exchange

[rand0mmm]

So pls walk me thru this, helping to document the steps, then we can collapse the chain and add the feature right into the app.
I am 100% sure there are errors in the below. Please copy, correct, and repost whole sequence.

1. Follow link (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Currency_exchange) to see grid of exchanges. (App could show this list directly)
2. Follow link to one that has currency I use. (No other avail info is shown. App could show the bitcoin exchange rates with my local currency (w/ exchange API))
3. Open new account on the exchange of my choice. (Steps not shown. Are these services using OpenID?, maybe could skim logins with OpenID or exchange API.)
4. Exchange Cash from my bank account into Bitcoins in my exchange account. (Now I have two places to keep my bitcoins?!?)
5. Send those bitcoins to my bitcoin address. (Again from the exchange UI, unless there is a way for app to gain exchange credentials.)
6. Now I have bitcoins to spend from my local client.

This is pretty complex, a lot of hurdles making a real barrier to entry and widespread adoption by naive end-userz who read a wired article.
Having a choice of exchanges makes sense from a big money perspective, but none whatsoever as an end user.
It took my brain a good WTF minute to figure out what that grid was, let alone the implied steps I need to take next.

So how to add exchange services in the app?
If there is a "best" broker that can exchange most first world currencies for you, then integrate them directly into your client asap and give them some props. (Skip steps 1,2,3, go directly to bank)
You can generalize it later -- if there is not already a good api that can be used with all exchanges to simply present their dialogs in the app.

As long as the system is dependant on multiple UI's to use it (client and exchange) it will be useful only to a skilled class of users. (I would end up using the exchange interface actually, and skip the local client. Keep my bitcoins in the cloud.) Regular people need simple well organized interfaces made to do the things they want to do and not much more, as iOS apps have demonstrated well. Bitcoins, is there an App for that?

I should add here, that I am a UI-UX Developer/Designer  just waltzing into Bitcoin. So thanks for listening to my "out-of-your-box" perspective. I appreciate the insane amount of low-level details that need to be handled to even get to having a grid of exchanges that is too complex for me to have an immediate and clear basis of choice. Good Going!

[Mike Hearn]

This page is a much better explanation:

   http://www.weusecoins.com/getting-started.php

It's by justmoon on this forum, and points users to CoinPal which is pretty much the right place to go.

I don't think we should be pointing users to a wiki. They can easily grow out of control like that grid has done.

If there was a bigger development team, the BitCoin app UI would certainly be a lot better. But not many coding hours go into it at the moment, and the work has been on more important issues like UPnP (for the health of the network), support for clickable bitcoin:// links so you don't have to copy/paste addresses around and so on. A "Welcome to BitCoin" screen or button would be great to have.

[rand0mmm]

That is a much better place to send people, sort of. Definitly much more what I was asking for.

In one of my apps, we had a folder full of xml files, each was a pointer to a resource.
These were loaded at run-time into the help menu, and made it easy to add web based resources and features without rewriting app code. Maybe something like that would help here.

Add Coins with CoinPal http://coinpal.ndrix.com/
Getting Started with Bitcoin http://www.weusecoins.com/getting-started.php

IMHO, Even better would be to embed something _like_ the coinpal interface in the client
(10% convenience fee is ridiculous and unworkable. If I ask to be paid in bitcoins it is going to cost me or client extra 10%. Why not just have him deposit into my paypal...)