Off-topic from the Silk Road thread

[BitterTea]

So things we definitely won't see on Silk Road;

- contracts/bounties to commit true crime hits (including assassination contracts)
- property acquired through theft of any kind (including body parts, stolen bitcoins, etc)
- criminal activity involving victims (including child porn, slave trade, fraudulent schemes, etc)

Things we might see;

- legitimate trade in substances and content that may be otherwise illicit in some legal systems (pharmaceuticals, censored material, leaked explosive govt. documents)
- legitimate trade in radioactive isotopes (maybe there is a market for fringe clean-up around Fukushima)
- legitimate trade in weapons, explosives and other destructive technologies (bio-weapons, chemical weapons)
- trade in gene selection technology for designer offspring and other ethically-questionable, experimental bio-medical technologies, fringe cancer treatments, etc


.....
good summary or wide of the mark?

Well, it's speculation... the rules are all up to Silkroad, but here are my comments on your list...

There could be a legitimate reason for wanting an individual killed. Perhaps they are a member of the police or other authority and are threatening you or your family.

It's not always clear whether property is stolen or legitimate, and I think any system to discriminate between them should be voluntary. Silk Road is free to put in place such a system if they choose.

I'm not convinced that possessing or viewing child porn is immoral, only creating it with actual children.

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[Jered Kenna (TradeHill)]

So things we definitely won't see on Silk Road;

- contracts/bounties to commit true crime hits (including assassination contracts)
- property acquired through theft of any kind (including body parts, stolen bitcoins, etc)
- criminal activity involving victims (including child porn, slave trade, fraudulent schemes, etc)

Things we might see;

- legitimate trade in substances and content that may be otherwise illicit in some legal systems (pharmaceuticals, censored material, leaked explosive govt. documents)
- legitimate trade in radioactive isotopes (maybe there is a market for fringe clean-up around Fukushima)
- legitimate trade in weapons, explosives and other destructive technologies (bio-weapons, chemical weapons)
- trade in gene selection technology for designer offspring and other ethically-questionable, experimental bio-medical technologies, fringe cancer treatments, etc


.....
good summary or wide of the mark?

Well, it's speculation... the rules are all up to Silkroad, but here are my comments on your list...

There could be a legitimate reason for wanting an individual killed. Perhaps they are a member of the police or other authority and are threatening you or your family.

It's not always clear whether property is stolen or legitimate, and I think any system to discriminate between them should be voluntary. Silk Road is free to put in place such a system if they choose.

I'm not convinced that possessing or viewing child porn is immoral, only creating it with actual children.

Defending CP is always going to draw enemies from just about everywhere but I see a huge difference between making it and possessing it.
Don't get me wrong it would be nice if it would all go away but making an image illegal could lead to worse things.

When you talk about voluntary organs etc you're getting in to a real gray area too. If someone needs to sell it to feed their starving family are they really giving it away? Same with prostitution. You could argue that their economic situation is causing the loss of the organ / prostitution but I don't know. It would just be pretty damn hard to regulate those kind of things and know what is legit or not.

Also if Silkroad doesn't have it someone with less scruples (or just a different view whatever) will provide a place for it.

[anonextc]

Child porn should only be illegal to produce. Child porn should not be illegal to possess or view. If you think it should be, then you are pro censorship.

[anonextc]

Also, child porn that is of a certain age is only illegal because of brainwashed religious zealots who have psychological issues with sex.

[anonextc]

Child porn should not be illegal to possess or view. If you think it should be, then you are pro censorship.

it's a two headed sword.

in order to posses/view, it must be made somehow, which creates a market

but some believe that if a pedo doesn't get his CP fix, he/she will resort to more desperate measures (kidnapping followed by shit i don't want to think abou)

so it comes down to the lesser of the two evils in my book

No people having sexual attraction to children creates the market. But realistically there is not much of a pay market for child porn. People produce child porn because they are exhibitionists with pedophilic tendencies or because they are sadists. Other people with similar tendencies view the child porn. Viewing child porn has no effect on production, harms nobody and should be completely legal. I am not  pro-pedophilia by any means and you wont see me arguing that kids should have sex or that pedophilia is normal. However, you also wont find me buying the bullshit the government and anti groups spew since this is equally bullshit.

libertus.net/censor/resources/statistics-laundering.html

Actually, the vast majority of child porn is created by teenagers with camera phones.

[JackSparrow]

Actually, the vast majority of child porn is created by teenagers with camera phones.

Do you realy want to talk about CP? Do you realy know what CP is? Child Porn is not about two teenagers having sex, it is about adults raping kids (below 10 maybe).
Should everyone have the right to view/copy this stuff (without the approval of all performers)?


EDIT: @mvgdr (or whoever you are): My German teacher once said: "If you can't tell it short (summarised), you can't tell it." Please try to shorten up your posts, it is quite hard to read them.

[anonextc]

Actually, the vast majority of child porn is created by teenagers with camera phones.

Do you realy want to talk about CP? Do you realy know what CP is? Child Porn is not about two teenagers having sex, it is about adults raping kids (below 10 maybe).
Should everyone have the right to view/copy this stuff (without the approval of all performers)?

Well, personally I don't think 10, 11, 12 or probably even 13 year olds can consent to sex so I think below 10 is pretty young of a cut off age to consider something 'CP' instead of 'Who the fuck cares'. I do think that everyone has the right to view/copy CP though, I am against censorship and for personal freedom. I know that the majority of people are emotionally charged and irrational, but I am quite certain that CP being legal to view and possess would be a good thing and probably would actually lead to lower rates of sexual abuse. Free information means free  information, if you are not for free information then you are pro-censorship. I am the opposite of pro-censorship. Outlawing information is bullshit. And actually CP is about teenagers having sex, because a tremendous amount of CP is in fact teenagers having sex. A tremendous amount of CP that isn't teenagers having sex is Russian produced softcore images where the children are paid and "consent" and have the consent of their parents, however I do think this production should be illegal. A tremendous amount of real CP is no worse than the legal based on artistic merits Brooke Shields nude images: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/6244330/Brooke-Shields-nude-photograph-causes-controversy-at-Tate-exhibition.html or nudist images deemed legal by the courts.

I wont link to them because they are nude and underage, but they are legal and actually on exhibit in museums in the UK.

edit: I should mention that I do think paying for CP should be illegal, as this does actually fund child abuse. Saying it is illegal to look at a picture though? Bullshit. Also, my distinction between 'CP' and 'Who gives a fuck' still stands.

[CharlieContent]

How did this thread become a discussion about the rights and wrongs of child pornography? Talk about a derail!

[Jered Kenna (TradeHill)]

How did this thread become a discussion about the rights and wrongs of child pornography? Talk about a derail!

Eh semi derail. If the community has a problem with CP then it's more likely to get banned from Silkroad.
I think that all information should be free but Silkroad has the right to decide what's allowed on their site.
Also I think there is a big difference between a consenting 16 year old and a 10 year old being raped.
I agree it should be illegal to make and that paying for it does support it. Also there is a difference between paying for it and paying for it to be made.
Supporting it indirectly or directly. I'd look at it like any other crime. If I pay you to video tape yourself robbing a liquor store that should be illegal if you committed the crime because of me. Same with CP.

Also just pissed how sensitive people get about it. Yeah it sucks, yeah they're douche bags that do it / make it but it is clearly censorship.
Plenty of other stuff I'm not in to that I find disgusting that's legal.

[FatherMcGruder]

Censorship won't ever get rid of CP. Hunting down and destroying people who harm children is another story though. Silk Road helps people circumvent governmental exploitation, so I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that they might help prevent the exploitation of children. I think the people at Silk Road should affect justice whenever they can. Shouldn't we all?

[mewantsbitcoins]

Censorship won't ever get rid of CP. Hunting down and destroying people who harm children is another story though.

I second that. To solve a problem one has to address the cause not the symptom.

[FatherMcGruder]

To clarify, we should go after people who do certain things, not think certain things.

[fetokun]

Since this topic became the place to discuss generic hot topics...

I thought CP was just pictures of children naked. If it's limited to that I don't think it should be censored. But if it involves children having sex (rape!) then I would vehemently support bringing it down.

Slavery is totally unacceptable!

I don't mind about the stolen things, but whoever buys them is an asshole =D

[EllisD]

Actually, the vast majority of child porn is created by teenagers with camera phones.

Do you realy want to talk about CP? Do you realy know what CP is? Child Porn is not about two teenagers having sex, it is about adults raping kids (below 10 maybe).
Should everyone have the right to view/copy this stuff (without the approval of all performers)?

Well, personally I don't think 10, 11, 12 or probably even 13 year olds can consent to sex so I think below 10 is pretty young of a cut off age to consider something 'CP' instead of 'Who the fuck cares'. I do think that everyone has the right to view/copy CP though, I am against censorship and for personal freedom. I know that the majority of people are emotionally charged and irrational, but I am quite certain that CP being legal to view and possess would be a good thing and probably would actually lead to lower rates of sexual abuse. Free information means free  information, if you are not for free information then you are pro-censorship. I am the opposite of pro-censorship. Outlawing information is bullshit. And actually CP is about teenagers having sex, because a tremendous amount of CP is in fact teenagers having sex. A tremendous amount of CP that isn't teenagers having sex is Russian produced softcore images where the children are paid and "consent" and have the consent of their parents, however I do think this production should be illegal. A tremendous amount of real CP is no worse than the legal based on artistic merits Brooke Shields nude images: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/6244330/Brooke-Shields-nude-photograph-causes-controversy-at-Tate-exhibition.html or nudist images deemed legal by the courts.

I wont link to them because they are nude and underage, but they are legal and actually on exhibit in museums in the UK.

edit: I should mention that I do think paying for CP should be illegal, as this does actually fund child abuse. Saying it is illegal to look at a picture though? Bullshit. Also, my distinction between 'CP' and 'Who gives a fuck' still stands.

take it easy on the CP defense

[deadlizard]

take it easy on the CP defense

Every other crime caught on tape is a hit television show ..... I'm just sayin

[anonextc]

take it easy on the CP defense

Every other crime caught on tape is a hit television show ..... I'm just sayin

No, I wont take it easy on the "CP defence". The only reason to do so would be out of fear of being labelled a paedophile and socially ostracised, but this is a pseudonymous forum and I am behind seven proxies. I don't defend CP, I defend peoples rights. The government has ruined the lives of hundreds of thousands of people over child pornography, a mere 16% of whom would statistically be likely to offend with a child. When you take into account that their definition of child is anyone under 18, you can see that even this estimate is artificially inflated.

Child porn and child sexuality laws are awful. In the USA tens of thousands of men are sent to prison for having sex with people who are old enough to consent in the majority of the world, including Europe. People in USA are put into prison and labelled sex offenders for having sex with 16 and 17 year olds in some states, despite this being totally legal in other states. Standing by complacently while people have their lives ruined for things that are legal a few miles away is awful and shows only that you are a scared coward afraid of the government created stigma.

Child porn should be protected constitutionally as right to free speech, but this term has been redefined into nothingness by the government. It isn't even possible to defend the people who view child porn with out appearing to support paedophilia. The average person who is rabidly for locking up people who look at child porn and throwing away the key is basing their entire argument off of emotions and not logic, and when they do present logic it is only a facades because the statistics and studies they quote are made up by law enforcement and anti groups. 

I don't think Silk Road should become involved with child porn, there are already hidden services for that. I just can't stand to see moral warriors spreading their bullshit at the cost of innocent peoples lives, people who are overwhelmingly not dangers to children and who have as much a right to privacy and protection from censorship as anyone else.

[MoonShadow]

Child porn and child sexuality laws are awful. In the USA tens of thousands of men are sent to prison for having sex with people who are old enough to consent in the majority of the world, including Europe. People in USA are put into prison and labelled sex offenders for having sex with 16 and 17 year olds in some states, despite this being totally legal in other states.

It's even worse than that.  Sex offender laws are so broad, that there are people that are on the lifetime registry lists for having sex with their legal spouses, for "mooning" and for having 'Sweet 16-Happy Birthday' sex with their 15 year old girlfriend only 10 days younger.  I almost got my nephew labeled as a sex offender, because at age 11 he pulled my daughter's pants down in an argument.  Not as any kind of sexual thing, but to tick her off.  She was four at the time.  My wife and I called some childcare 'hotline' for advice on how to deal with the issue, because it wasn't the first time that he had used this tactic to run her off.  The operator told us that if he was 12, he would have been obligated under law to report our nephew as a potential sex offender, which would have certainly caused a visit from Social Services.

And, of course, it doesn't matter what kind of crime that you have been accused of, if you are on a sex offender list you are automaticly assumed to be a child predator by the general public.

[TheKoziTwo]

A guy was facing 20 years in prison for a video of so called "CP". The girl in the video took a flight all the way to the court and proved her age. It was claimed this girl could be no more than "12", turns out she was 20, and 18 at the date the "CP" was made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDrHfuLC4H8

Lucky guy, bet there are quite a few not that lucky......

[EllisD]

ok, tldr

anyways...if you wana make a thread about you're beliefs on CP then go ahead, lets stick to shit thats silk road related. there hasn't even been CP posted there, so lets worry about what is happening now and deal with that

[CharlieContent]

anyways...if you wana make a thread about you're beliefs on CP then go ahead, lets stick to shit thats silk road related. there hasn't even been CP posted there, so lets worry about what is happening now and deal with that

Totally agree. I can't believe this thread derail. Completely ridiculous.