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Author Topic: Can my Bitcoin be stolen  (Read 4397 times)
jonald_fyookball
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May 30, 2014, 01:45:57 AM
Last edit: May 30, 2014, 02:34:43 AM by jonald_fyookball
 #101

But would you agree with my point - that keys generated using only the numbers 1-6 are not as secure as if they had been generated using the numbers 0-9, never mind the other characters on the keyboard? Would it really take a supercomputer many years to bruteforce 64 numbers in the range 1-6?

I would only agree if the exponent was the same.
10^x > 6^x  (10 to the power of x is greater than 6 to the power of x).

Apparently you don't quite understand the power of exponentiation
or you don't understand how basic probabilities work with combinations.

If you roll a die, there's a 1 in 6 chance to roll, say a one.
to roll 2 ones in a row, is 1/36  (6^2)
to roll 3 ones in a row, is 1/216 (6^3)
...and up it goes.

when we look at 6^64, the exponent 64 is much more important than the 6.
in the end its still a huge number of combinations.

You could flip a coin 160 times and get about the same number of combinations.
Its not any less secure because there's "only two" numbers (heads or tails).

To get the same combinations using digits 0-9, you'd have to use 49 digits.
To get the same number of combos using all uppercase letters, all lowercase
letters, plus 10 digits, (62 characters), you only need about 28...

so whether you use 2^160, 6^64 , 10^49 or 62^28, its all the same number
of combinations.  And a supercomputer cannot try that many combinations
as I spelled out in one of my previous posts in this thread.

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May 30, 2014, 02:22:22 AM
 #102

If your PC was stolen, I think they can right?

But then again, thats if they have your pw. Not sure how they would, but you have to be a hacker.. Undecided
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May 30, 2014, 05:46:22 AM
 #103

I just installed a bitcoin client on my PC , a was thinking before i download my wallet from blockchain.info, If someone has access to my PC or if i am infected by a virus will this compromise allow my bitcoin to be stolen?

Always run a virus scan to be sure there is no type of virus that would risk your coins.

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joshraban76
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May 30, 2014, 05:55:30 AM
 #104

It's internet money. Of course it can be stolen when it's just sitting on your PC connected to the internet. Silly rabbit.

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ranochigo
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May 30, 2014, 10:38:26 AM
 #105

I have now come to the conclusion that there is nothing that I can do to make a secure paper wallet. Surely any combination of numbers/letters/words etc will be guessed by some supercomputer sometime?

Not at all. Combinations grow exponentially large, much too big for supercomputers.

Flip a coin 128 times, you have 2^128.

That's about 340 trillion trillion trillion combinations,
Each of which would have to be checked by doing a complete
Sha256 hash.

No computer could do it in any mortal time frame.

Roughly a billion seconds ago, Jesus walked the earth.


So do you think my 64 dice rolls followed by a few words is sufficient?
IMO, a person could bruteforce your 64 dice rolls and a few words in a few months or even days. And are you sure you can spend the time to type those 64 letters and a few words? You can easily forget it.
-ranochigo

64 dice rolls is 6^64.  that's on the order of 2^160.  You can't brute force it even if you had a million billion years.
It has nothing to do with opinions!  

That's this many combinations: 1461501637330902918203684832716300000000000000000

Anyone who says you can brute-force that doesn't realize how BIG that really is.


Imagine, you are really urgent for a few BTC, do you take your time to type the 64 characters and few words? Wouldn't it be better if you scan your paper wallet and put in a few letters and get your BTC instantly? Even if it is that secure, you are sure to get a few letters wrong in the 64letters and a few words, you might not even be able to remember it.
-ranochigo

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ranochigo
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May 30, 2014, 10:40:47 AM
 #106

Although I followed the advice given on another forum & rolled dice, I'd have preferred 64 characters chosen from anywhere on the keyboard, even if they weren't as 'random'. Surely they'd have been harder to bruteforce?

Here's the advice I followed:

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinWallet/comments/1p6y5c/secure_paper_wallet_tutorial/
That works too, I guess it is also as secure. But I think your mouse strokes are even more random, just in case.

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May 30, 2014, 11:41:14 AM
 #107

I have now come to the conclusion that there is nothing that I can do to make a secure paper wallet. Surely any combination of numbers/letters/words etc will be guessed by some supercomputer sometime?



Imagine, you are really urgent for a few BTC, do you take your time to type the 64 characters and few words? Wouldn't it be better if you scan your paper wallet and put in a few letters and get your BTC instantly? Even if it is that secure, you are sure to get a few letters wrong in the 64letters and a few words, you might not even be able to remember it.
-ranochigo

I can't imagine needing to access my BTC that urgently & I think I will have the time to type in the numbers & characters. And I'm not trying to remember it; I have it stored securely in several different locations, so I'm not worried about it being accessed physically.

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June 04, 2014, 02:12:51 AM
 #108

They always can be stolen, unless you use some smart cold storage
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June 06, 2014, 11:13:48 AM
 #109

They always can be stolen, unless you use some smart cold storage
In general, this is safe advice.
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June 06, 2014, 12:33:25 PM
 #110

Cold storage for large amounts of bitcoin, password on your wallet if you're not storing a large amount.
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June 06, 2014, 02:43:10 PM
 #111

definetly good advice about setting the password. so many people who get hacked seem to never have a password. I think its not mandatory passworded by default as to many newbies might forget passwords. silly reason if you ask me... but noone did Sad lol

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June 06, 2014, 03:47:45 PM
 #112

definetly good advice about setting the password. so many people who get hacked seem to never have a password. I think its not mandatory passworded by default as to many newbies might forget passwords. silly reason if you ask me... but noone did Sad lol
It couldn't be 'mandatory' as there are many different clients, I assume you're talking about QT though.
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June 07, 2014, 04:13:41 PM
 #113

Im always so "lucky" that im sure some shit will happen. The security issue worries me the most and deters me from getting bitcoin. Sad
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June 07, 2014, 10:49:41 PM
 #114

Is there a newbie version way to setup the paper wallet.

Like a youtube tutorial, or the blockchain one.

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June 08, 2014, 03:45:11 AM
 #115

I just installed a bitcoin client on my PC , a was thinking before i download my wallet from blockchain.info, If someone has access to my PC or if i am infected by a virus will this compromise allow my bitcoin to be stolen?

Yes, it is always possible that your BTC can be stolen. This is true no matter what precautions you take, although certain precautions will make it be less likely that your coins will be stolen.

If you use a sufficiently strong password if using Bitcoin-QT or multibit then your chances of BTC theft will be reduced.

The safest way to protect your coins in a "hot wallet" form would probably be blockchain.info with 2fa enabled, blocking tor exit nodes and having a strong password and a strong sending password.

The safest way to store your coins via "cold storage" is probably a paper wallet that is encrypted (that is that gives you what is essentially a private key, but you need a password to make it usable). You should store your paper wallet both in paper form and in a USB stick/drive (to prevent issues with the ink faking on the paper) and store it in a safety deposit box (it may be advisable to use two boxes at different banks in the event of a robbery/fire at the bank.

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June 08, 2014, 05:23:29 AM
 #116

Is there a newbie version way to setup the paper wallet.

The 10 steps in the coindesk article (http://www.coindesk.com/information/paper-wallet-tutorial/) should be pretty easy to follow.

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June 08, 2014, 05:25:20 AM
 #117

I just installed a bitcoin client on my PC , a was thinking before i download my wallet from blockchain.info, If someone has access to my PC or if i am infected by a virus will this compromise allow my bitcoin to be stolen?

Put a really long password on it, it would be almost impossible to hack then...
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June 08, 2014, 08:14:43 AM
 #118

What is the most safe way to store coin? I hear people say cold storage.. I dont want to use paper printouts. Can I put the wallet on an external hard drive and remove it + the original wallet from my computer so its now only stored on a drive that cant be accessed unless I plug it in? If so what files do I put on the wallet to ABSOLUTELY guarantee i can bring them back up on my PC any time? I was using multibit but on advice from a friend I got bitcoin core which took like 3 days to sync. Can I back it all up so I don't have to sync every time?
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June 08, 2014, 02:18:22 PM
 #119

What is the most safe way to store coin? I hear people say cold storage.. I dont want to use paper printouts. Can I put the wallet on an external hard drive and remove it + the original wallet from my computer so its now only stored on a drive that cant be accessed unless I plug it in? If so what files do I put on the wallet to ABSOLUTELY guarantee i can bring them back up on my PC any time? I was using multibit but on advice from a friend I got bitcoin core which took like 3 days to sync. Can I back it all up so I don't have to sync every time?

If you don't like downloading the whole block chain you can use electrum cold storage, doesn't require a paper printout, in fact you can restore your wallet from a secret 12 word seed.

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June 09, 2014, 05:03:19 AM
 #120

I just installed a bitcoin client on my PC , a was thinking before i download my wallet from blockchain.info, If someone has access to my PC or if i am infected by a virus will this compromise allow my bitcoin to be stolen?

No matter what you BTC can be stolen.

The question is, do the precautions lower the chances of your coins from being stolen enough?


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