Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming?

[lyth0s]

ahh that's right -- circle. i do hope that goes well and that they are able to have a product that at least competes with coinbase to help form a stronger and more competitive market. it's true though, the exchange situation is frankly scary.

I do have my doubts about Circle as well. I'm really hoping they pull through with their promises, but to be completely honest... if they do I'll be surprised. If, and it's a big if, that happens, I think it could completely change the game when it comes to exchanges and buying/selling coins.

Then the next step will be changing the way the real exchanges (for coin<->coin transfers) work.

Well a problem with places like Coinbase and Circle that was pointed out to me by DeathAndTaxes is that they could vary well become a fractional reserve for bitcoin quite easily, which scares me. Especially with Circle's whole ideology of showing the dollar value in emphasis and a small font and lighter color for bitcoin might mean that they plan on transfering dollar amounts instead of actual bitcoin sometime in the future. Can't you see coinbase and circle teaming up to allow money transfers between them both and at some point "loaning" bitcoin to a company or a user without their knowledge of it?

As far as the whole FinCEN goes I don't remember any other company ever wanting a photo with you standing in it with your passport in one hand and a bank statement in the other hand, as well as accounting for where all your coins came from.

However, It is promising that other users ahve withdrawn bitcoin and fiat recently without any issues.

[1715443901]

1715443901

[1715443901]

1715443901

[YipYip]

I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this:

This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term.

Thanks as a 15 year veteran of Commercial Banking & finance sector ...Its is a totally bullish sign and i will say it again

Answer the fucking KYC or go launder your drug money and terrorist funding on btc-e for a 5% fee

This is standard practice for Large banks & funding of sums over 10k

How you nut jobs connect this totall awesome behaviour with stamp being insolvent is mind boggling

Just like whores gotta smoke crack... big banks need their kyc/AML questions answered

[Nicolas Dorier]

I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this:

This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term.

Thanks as a 15 year veteran of Commercial Banking & finance sector ...Its is a totally bullish sign and i will say it again

Answer the fucking KYC or go launder your drug money and terrorist funding on btc-e for a 5% fee

This is standard practice for Large banks & funding of sums over 10k

How you nut jobs connect this totall awesome behaviour with stamp being insolvent is mind boggling

Just like whores gotta smoke crack... big banks need their kyc/AML questions answered

What reason I have to trade with large banks (or exchange) my BTC and bother with their process ?
In the smaller exchanges, there is no 5% fees, I might be stolen, so I just adjust the line of credit I gave them, it is totally worth my time.
Big exchanges can continue to play like the big banks, but if BTC goes really big, the rules have changed, and they can't count on the gov to higher barriers of entry to save them... because Bitcoin is international.

[davidgdg]

Found this today, seems although Bitstamp is making it EXTREMELY difficulty to withdraw both BTC and Fiat currency. Seems like a Mt. Gox 2.0 problem. If they end up being insolvent do you guys think BTC price will increase (due to realized less supply of coins) or go down due to bad media coverage plus people trying to recoup some of their losses?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26apno/bitstamp_will_not_process_withdrawal_unless_you/

We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image of both pages of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire: 1. How did you learn about Bitcoin? 2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp? Please describe in as much detail as possible how you intend to use your trading account. 3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment. 4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange? 5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future? 6. Which bank do you intend to use? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code. 7. Estimated amount that you would be depositing/withdrawing to/from your Bitstamp account per month (in USD and BTC)?

We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket.

OK fine, here are the details and my passport (already verified with driver's license and had swift code already entered).

They required that I prove where the coins came from that I sold. I provided the receipt from the exchange. Here is what they came back with.

Thank you for your reply.

Please note that the provided information is for only 5 BTC while you have deposited to and sold on Bitstamp more than xxx bitcoins.

We kindly ask you to send us a signed message of your personal, most used wallet so we can establish the veracity of your statements.

some people may bring about their recent "proof of solvency" of Bitstamp by firestartr.co (whoever the hell that is). It is just a statement though, no blockchain proof. And the PDF is even broken on my PC

https://www.bitstamp.net/s/documents/Firestartr_DD_Letter_for_Bitstamp.pdf

If they are insolvent, the price would go down first (as we've seen with Gox) and then would go back up after. I will say that it would hurt the morale more than it already has, though, in that people are starting to lose trust already.

Is this only for BTC sellers? The letter seems specifically directed at sellers rather than buyers. Have any buyers received a similar letter?

After making a recent dollar deposit, I received today a similar message, but with slightly different questions in a different order. I answered promptly with brief one line answers. I look forward to seeing how efficiently the process runs. 

[alani123]

Money laundering laws are really strict in the USA. This doesn't mean insolvency. I'Surely; bitstamp doesn't want the ifc to freeze their bank accounts. They have to comply with regulation in advance. And if you ask me, I'm sure btc-e doesn't like regulation as well but it's not the same. They are not US based.

[efreeti]

Complying with money laundry law is not the same as insolvent.

[davidgdg]

Found this today, seems although Bitstamp is making it EXTREMELY difficulty to withdraw both BTC and Fiat currency. Seems like a Mt. Gox 2.0 problem. If they end up being insolvent do you guys think BTC price will increase (due to realized less supply of coins) or go down due to bad media coverage plus people trying to recoup some of their losses?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26apno/bitstamp_will_not_process_withdrawal_unless_you/

We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image of both pages of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire: 1. How did you learn about Bitcoin? 2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp? Please describe in as much detail as possible how you intend to use your trading account. 3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment. 4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange? 5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future? 6. Which bank do you intend to use? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code. 7. Estimated amount that you would be depositing/withdrawing to/from your Bitstamp account per month (in USD and BTC)?

We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket.

OK fine, here are the details and my passport (already verified with driver's license and had swift code already entered).

They required that I prove where the coins came from that I sold. I provided the receipt from the exchange. Here is what they came back with.

Thank you for your reply.

Please note that the provided information is for only 5 BTC while you have deposited to and sold on Bitstamp more than xxx bitcoins.

We kindly ask you to send us a signed message of your personal, most used wallet so we can establish the veracity of your statements.

some people may bring about their recent "proof of solvency" of Bitstamp by firestartr.co (whoever the hell that is). It is just a statement though, no blockchain proof. And the PDF is even broken on my PC

https://www.bitstamp.net/s/documents/Firestartr_DD_Letter_for_Bitstamp.pdf

If they are insolvent, the price would go down first (as we've seen with Gox) and then would go back up after. I will say that it would hurt the morale more than it already has, though, in that people are starting to lose trust already.

Is this only for BTC sellers? The letter seems specifically directed at sellers rather than buyers. Have any buyers received a similar letter?

After making a recent dollar deposit, I received today a similar message, but with slightly different questions in a different order. I answered promptly with brief one line answers. I look forward to seeing how efficiently the process runs.  

I agree the questions are overly intrusive but the approval was super-quick:

KYC request made at 09.42 today

Answers provided by me at 10.30 today

KYC clearance given at 12.12 today


 

[ranlo]

ahh that's right -- circle. i do hope that goes well and that they are able to have a product that at least competes with coinbase to help form a stronger and more competitive market. it's true though, the exchange situation is frankly scary.

I do have my doubts about Circle as well. I'm really hoping they pull through with their promises, but to be completely honest... if they do I'll be surprised. If, and it's a big if, that happens, I think it could completely change the game when it comes to exchanges and buying/selling coins.

Then the next step will be changing the way the real exchanges (for coin<->coin transfers) work.

Well a problem with places like Coinbase and Circle that was pointed out to me by DeathAndTaxes is that they could vary well become a fractional reserve for bitcoin quite easily, which scares me. Especially with Circle's whole ideology of showing the dollar value in emphasis and a small font and lighter color for bitcoin might mean that they plan on transfering dollar amounts instead of actual bitcoin sometime in the future. Can't you see coinbase and circle teaming up to allow money transfers between them both and at some point "loaning" bitcoin to a company or a user without their knowledge of it?

As far as the whole FinCEN goes I don't remember any other company ever wanting a photo with you standing in it with your passport in one hand and a bank statement in the other hand, as well as accounting for where all your coins came from.

However, It is promising that other users ahve withdrawn bitcoin and fiat recently without any issues.

Any exchange (or, both of these are just "intermediates" I think) can be a fractional reserve, even if they aren't doing anything that would warrant it. So I think fearing this is a little meaningless, since at the end of the day we have no idea who is holding the coins they claim they are unless they offer that transparency.

[onlyu]

People still able to withdraw once they comply with kyc.

[lyth0s]

I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this:

This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term.

Thanks as a 15 year veteran of Commercial Banking & finance sector ...Its is a totally bullish sign and i will say it again

Answer the fucking KYC or go launder your drug money and terrorist funding on btc-e for a 5% fee

This is standard practice for Large banks & funding of sums over 10k

How you nut jobs connect this totall awesome behaviour with stamp being insolvent is mind boggling

Just like whores gotta smoke crack... big banks need their kyc/AML questions answered

When has the government ever asked you to take a picture of yourself with your bank statement and passport/photo ID in hand? I'd really like to know where this is a "standard of practice" if you will.

[Gimmelfarb]

When has the government ever asked you to take a picture of yourself with your bank statement and passport/photo ID in hand? I'd really like to know where this is a "standard of practice" if you will.

LOL. yeah there is no doubt that bitstamp has developed some very bizarre ideas about how to comply with AML/KYC regulations. i get it -- they are trying -- but it does appear that some of their methods are a bit...out of the ordinary.

[davidgdg]

I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this:

This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term.

Thanks as a 15 year veteran of Commercial Banking & finance sector ...Its is a totally bullish sign and i will say it again

Answer the fucking KYC or go launder your drug money and terrorist funding on btc-e for a 5% fee

This is standard practice for Large banks & funding of sums over 10k

How you nut jobs connect this totall awesome behaviour with stamp being insolvent is mind boggling

Just like whores gotta smoke crack... big banks need their kyc/AML questions answered

When has the government ever asked you to take a picture of yourself with your bank statement and passport/photo ID in hand? I'd really like to know where this is a "standard of practice" if you will.

You've obviously never done business in the EU.

[Fippy]

I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this:

This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term.

Thanks as a 15 year veteran of Commercial Banking & finance sector ...Its is a totally bullish sign and i will say it again

Answer the fucking KYC or go launder your drug money and terrorist funding on btc-e for a 5% fee

This is standard practice for Large banks & funding of sums over 10k

How you nut jobs connect this totall awesome behaviour with stamp being insolvent is mind boggling

Just like whores gotta smoke crack... big banks need their kyc/AML questions answered

When has the government ever asked you to take a picture of yourself with your bank statement and passport/photo ID in hand? I'd really like to know where this is a "standard of practice" if you will.

They don't have to. The financial industry shares so much information about account holders amongst themselves that a bank halfway around the world that you never even heard of knows more about your financial history that you yourself probably know. That system and way of doing business has been in place for so long it is second nature, borderline hivemind, collected about you since the day you first had an account anywhere in your name.

Bitcoin exchanges are newcomers to this arena and way of doing things, and have to 'start fresh', so to speak. Hence the invasive seeming questions.

[BitchicksHusband]

I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this:

This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term.

Thanks as a 15 year veteran of Commercial Banking & finance sector ...Its is a totally bullish sign and i will say it again

Answer the fucking KYC or go launder your drug money and terrorist funding on btc-e for a 5% fee

This is standard practice for Large banks & funding of sums over 10k

How you nut jobs connect this totall awesome behaviour with stamp being insolvent is mind boggling

Just like whores gotta smoke crack... big banks need their kyc/AML questions answered

When has the government ever asked you to take a picture of yourself with your bank statement and passport/photo ID in hand? I'd really like to know where this is a "standard of practice" if you will.

Many banks photocopy your ID and if you try to deposit a large amount of cash, they require you to have documentation of its origin.  One old man that stuffed his mattress for years was unable to put it in the bank.