Proof of massive fraudulent trading activity and how it has affected the price

[C. Bergmann]

i dont think this willy story caused the price to spike.

if the bot buys for real there must be a seller and wily owner had to pay them out in fiat. like a real trade.

if the bot buy not for real than the rate of (real) buyer and seller remains the same.

the report may be true about the activity of the bot but it plays up his impact very much. there maybe was a psychological impact, but this was rather little.

[1714885981]

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[oakpacific]

I think there's definitely price manipulation going on, like, on this thread.

[MyPotPlantDied]

It seems as though the Goxxing will never end!

[bananas]

While bitcoin itself is not a scam, the market is a complete scam. Unfortunately the people who took the leadership of it are scammers.

I would never advise anyone to buy bitcoins, because i know the price is a fake bubble, a ponzi-like scam. While the scammers have been successful in keeping it going on, at some point the market will turn to reality and people may lose everything.

It is relatively easy simulate bitcoin value in non fradulent market circumstances, and it points to a very small value. Hopefully i will have the time to write an article to prove this.

[JorgeStolfi]

I just posted a comment to the Willy Report page on Wordpress:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624901.msg6938092#msg6938092

[JorgeStolfi]

I bet some variant of this Gox scam is still happening on Huobi or OKCoin. All the insanely big buys that pump the market globally seem to happen over there. What kind of rational person would have millions on Chinese exchanges that are in regulation violations? I will probably get back to this post once Huobi or OKCoin are exposed for continuing the Gox ponzi scheme.

A week or two ago I found a Chinese article that (through Google Translate) seemed to say that the Chinese exchanges made money from (1) interest on leveraged trading, (2) trading on insider information (e.g. about bank closures) and (3) high-frequency trading; with (2) and (3) being of course against their own clients, who were not happy once they started noticing that.

(Unfortunately I lost the link to the article, so feel free to doubt my memory and understanding.)

If true, those complaints (channeled through some consumer protection agency) may have motivated in part the "five exchanges's" agreement of early May; which may have caused the end of the Feb-Apr downtrend and the recent rally.

[Dalmar]

A week or two ago I found a Chinese article that (through Google Translate) seemed to say that the Chinese exchanges made money from (1) interest on leveraged trading, (2) trading on insider information (e.g. about bank closures) and (3) high-frequency trading; with (2) and (3) being of course against their own clients, who were not happy once they started noticing that.

(Unfortunately I lost the link to the article, so feel free to doubt my memory and understanding.)

If true, those complaints (channeled through some consumer protection agency) may have motivated in part the "five exchanges's" agreement of early May; which may have caused the end of the Feb-Apr downtrend and the recent rally.

I haven't been following Chinese bitcoin news for some time now, but I just don't understand how billions of Yuan can still enter Chinese exchanges to support current prices when the banks stopped doing business with them? Surely it can't go all through cash deposits or limited vouchers...

Something extremely shady is brewing on Chinese exchanges that will make Mt.Gox look mild in comparison.

[bluemeanie1]

Something extremely shady is brewing on Chinese exchanges that will make Mt.Gox look mild in comparison.

either that, or they are trying to make the Chinese exchanges look disreputable.

-bm

[bluemeanie1]

clearly there is a monopoly on all the exchanges except the Chinese ones.  Also, the Chinese exchanges don't have the ID requirements of others.

-bm

[Cubic Earth]

So most of the assets available to Mt. Gox, both fiat and BTC, were used to pump up the price, essentially a forcing an investment on the part of everyone who had any assets there.

I lost a pile of fiat myself, and while the alleged activities are illegal and immoral, there is a benefit to the bitcoin ecosystem.  The run up in price spurred media coverage, merchant adoption, attention and energy from thousands of developers, investment from miners etc. etc.  Although revelations of the Gox fraud have hurt countless individuals and bitcoin as a whole, its quite possible the lasting benefits of the price run up outweigh the negatives, at least for most of us.  I lost about 7% of my holdings to Gox, and I could easily believe we are 7% further ahead due to what has been described in the Willy report.

[bluemeanie1]

and note another curious point- basically the American stronghold in the Asia-Pacific is *Singapore*.  Where was the exchange with the suicide CEO again?

curiouser and curiouser...

-bm

[JorgeStolfi]

Also, the Chinese exchanges don't have the ID requirements of others.

After the December decree, the clients of Chinese exchanges were forced to use Chinese bank accounts, either for deposit through wire transfers or to recharge the exchanges' "recharge cards".  So, in terms of ID requirements, I believe that the Chinese exchanges were effectively stricter than those outside China.

Perhaps they were less restrictive before the decree, until Nov 2013.

[ArticMine]

I commented on this in this thread in Speculation. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624800.0 The bottom line: Desperate short covering to meet BTC withdrawals.

Edit: Who is left holding the bag is those who lent BTC to the short seller. Who wins: Those who bought BTC during the short selling and took delivery.  

[Joshuar]

i dont think this willy story caused the price to spike.

if the bot buys for real there must be a seller and wily owner had to pay them out in fiat. like a real trade.

if the bot buy not for real than the rate of (real) buyer and seller remains the same.

the report may be true about the activity of the bot but it plays up his impact very much. there maybe was a psychological impact, but this was rather little.

Yea, not to mention that the "ban" on Bitcoin by China toppled the price...If Willy was the cause for the huge price, then the China ban wouldn't of lowered it so much...That could only mean one thing.


That the Chinese Traders were responsible for the majority of the price increase in November, not Willy....

[bluemeanie1]

Interestingly, NXT appears to be quite popular in the Asia-Pacific and Russia.

-bm

[Grinder]

It's not like he made 4 separate posts breaking up my own post into 4 dis-coherent segments and contributing nothing intellectually to my remarks whatsoever.

Yes slightly mad, yes mildly butthurt and I'm possibly having my jimmies rustled.

No use, it's just an account building post count. That way it will look more credible when it starts or supports what ever fraud the owner is working on. There are a lot of those lately.

[Aquent]

Except that the database withdrawals and deposits have been matched to the blockchain:

http://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxAddresses/comments/25gq8h/likely_mt_gox_transactions_identified/

So the coins are real.

Moreover, in regards to Markus, we know that MT Gox made about 300k btc in profits, we also know that MK sold about 220k btc, and we further know that MK currently hold on gox about 70k-80k btc.

So MK sold his btc - nothing wrong with that.

[Grinder]

The way I understand it, it's the fiat part of the trades that is suspected of not being real. That would explain why they've made their customers jump through hoops to withdraw fiat for so long.

[igorr]

Mining company and exchange working together, massive fraud !

After willy we have,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob9Ak1t09Ao

And topics:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=476535.0;topicseen
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179586.0;topicseen

[hdbuck]

LMAO, like if the latest uptrend/breakout isnt manipulation too... thats some serious clockwork stuff