This world runs on EVIL,GREED and SELFISHNESS

[farfiman]

This thread was started because of this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14085.msg731942#msg731942

For those not interested or too lazy I'll summarize.

1) Ozcoin pool was hacked and funds stolen, graet(the owner) was pissed
2) I was pissed at everything today
3) Started thread.

My questions for starters:

1) was it always like this? or is it getting worse?
2) is there anything we can do or just toughen up and take it "like a man" ?


edit: this is not about a hacked pool or even the bitcoin community as a whole although the goings on here
(hacks,scams etc..) have ignited the thread. just watch the news around the world or in your own community.
are the good people being overrun by the (hopefully) small amount of people that create the chaos?

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[bb113]

The thing to do is figure out what went wrong and prevent the same thing from happening in the future.

[farfiman]

The thing to do is figure out what went wrong and prevent the same thing from happening in the future.

of course

but I'm talking about PEOPLE = this was done by PEOPLE.
The evil is all around us in every aspect of our lives.  We have to be ON WATCH continually.
Personally , I'm tired of it. 

[os2sam]

I take issue with the idea that "This world runs on EVIL,GREED and SELFISHNESS".

Yes there are allot people who definitely fit these categories, but, with the exception of actual and real Evil, these aren't completely bad qualities if not taken to extreme.

There are allot of selfless people in this world and we may out of jealousy or lack of self examination think these people fit one or more of the above categories.

So I think if we try to look objectively at ourselves and our motives, as well at our fellow man/woman/person we may see something different in them as well as ourselves.

Sam

[os2sam]

My questions for starters:

1) was it always like this? or is it getting worse?
2) is there anything we can do or just toughen up and take it "like a man" ?

1.  Yes it was always like this.  Looking back at history we see all types of evil.  In our current society some things are getting better.  Such as the internet allows us to interface with people we would otherwise never know or understand.  But it is also getting worse because anyone can say or do anything now with little or no repercussions.  So allot of us don't act as responsibly as we should.

2.  I think we all should "toughen up and take it "like a man"".  At the same time we should exercise a little more personal responsibility.  In this information age we have allot of power that previous generations didn't have, but we don't always reflect how our words and actions effect those around (in the virtual sense) us.  We should concentrate on more personal responsibility and raising up our fellow man and speaking as well of him as we can as apposed to trying to crush another line of reasoning.

Sam

[os2sam]

Greed is good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vscG3k91s58

What did the non English subtitles say?

[os2sam]

The thing to do is figure out what went wrong and prevent the same thing from happening in the future.

of course

but I'm talking about PEOPLE = this was done by PEOPLE.
The evil is all around us in every aspect of our lives.  We have to be ON WATCH continually.
Personally , I'm tired of it. 

Yes, we do, and I am tired of it as well.  I have run into this at the corporate level with being laid off, and so I'm more than a little jaded at the moment.  All we can do, individually, is to not act like those who take advantage of others.

We can't change the behavior of others, only ourselves.
Sam

[farfiman]

So the answer is - we cant do anything - this is humane nature.

Kinda reminds me of the series "Terra Nova"

For those they dont know it:

The future world is in shambles, they find a wormhole to go back 65 million years.

"Lets send back the best people and start a new and better world!"

What happens is of course more of the same evil, greed and selfishness but with dinosaurs

[os2sam]

So the answer is - we cant do anything - this is humane nature.

Hmm, quite the contrary.  We can't do anything about others, for the most part.  But we can accept responsibility for our part in the mess of this world and improve what we have control over, which is ourselves.
Sam

[os2sam]

So the answer is - we cant do anything - this is humane nature.

Kinda reminds me of the series "Terra Nova"

For those they dont know it:

The future world is in shambles, they find a wormhole to go back 65 million years.

"Lets send back the best people and start a new and better world!"

What happens is of course more of the same evil, greed and selfishness but with dinosaurs

Who's qualified to say who the best people are?  If they could be identified, I think, the "best people" would create the same mess we now have over time, dinosaurs or not.
Sam

[Hawker]

This thread was started because of this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14085.msg731942#msg731942

For those not interested or too lazy I'll summarize.

1) Ozcoin pool was hacked and funds stolen, graet(the owner) was pissed
2) I was pissed at everything today
3) Started thread.

My questions for starters:

1) was it always like this? or is it getting worse?
2) is there anything we can do or just toughen up and take it "like a man" ?

1. Its always been like this.  If you are religiously minded, check your bible and see that Adam and Eve stole that apple.
2. You can focus on the fact that most people are decent and that the kindness of strangers far outweighs the bad stuff that happens.  Be careful from now on but don't don't let it distort your attitude to people.

[os2sam]

Today we have a better option. Mining on P2Pool, you only have to trust your ability to keep your Bitcoins safe. An added bonus is that you are also helping decentralize the network.

Also the community, in general, needs to take responsibility for pools centralizing the network too much, if that's indeed the case, by pushing people away from solo mining.

And developers need to take responsibility, in particular, by removing the Coin Generation option from the Bitcoin client which probably did the most to drive the last nail in the coffin of a decentralized network.

I'm NOT saying P2Pool is a bad development, however, I still don't know what I should think about that yet.

Sam

[os2sam]

Today we have a better option. Mining on P2Pool, you only have to trust your ability to keep your Bitcoins safe. An added bonus is that you are also helping decentralize the network.

Also the community, in general, needs to take responsibility for pools centralizing the network too much, if that's indeed the case, by pushing people away from solo mining.

I've never seen the community push people away from solo mining. Unless you are suggesting the community (of miners) grew, increasing the difficulty, and thus pushing people away from solo mining.

When I started getting interested in Bitcoin and asked for guidance, some people, kindly enough, suggested that CPU mining and solo mining probably weren't the best use of resources.  But then there were more than a few who went further on both subjects to suggest was just plain stupid to solo mine not only stupid but implied that it was somehow immoral to CPU mine and hence it was proper to remove it from the client.

All I really wanted to do, in the beginning, was to get a CPU or low end GPU mining on a machine, that was running 24/7 anyway, up and running and then just forget about it and check the wallet a couple times a year.

And I think that many people may/could be turned away from Bitcoin because of these barriers.  If there were a simple way for a person to get started so that they didn't have to spend allot of time, like many of us do, they would be more inclined to be involved in Bitcoin.  Even if it is only to CPU mine for a while with the standard client.

Sam

[os2sam]

Well, you can't judge a community by a vocal minority.

True enough, but to a noob it may seem like a majority.  Whether it is a majority or not it discourages people and drives them away.

There is nothing wrong with barriers to enter mining. I wish they were higher to be honest.

I could not disagree more.  I would think the Bitcoin community would want the maximum number of people, regardless of technical aptitude, to download and install the Bitcoin Client and run it.

And honestly, CPU mining via the client is a waste of energy. I don't think we should be encouraging people to waste energy, there are already enough critics that complain about Bitcoin's footprint.

With all due respect, but, who are you to judge how I choose to use my electricity and for what purpose I choose to use it?  Do you pay my electric bill?  Do you know where my electricity comes from?  And who gives a FRA what any critic says about a footprint.  I don't.

Bitcoin is not only about mining. It's one aspect. The barriers to mine are not the same as the barriers to use. I think the barriers to use are the most important to break down for the future success of Bitcoin. If people want to take the extra step to learn how the network works and do their part, fantastic.

True too.  But when the Generate Coin option was removed you removed the incentive to "give a whirl" altogether for many people.  Again I would think the community would want as many people as possible to install and run the client.  Is that an incorrect assumption?

That said, P2Pool built into the client, so people with the appropriate hardware can mine effectively, would be great.

I'm sure that is a completely unbiased opinion on your part right?

I think it would be more, or at least just as, productive as reinstating CPU mining and maybe some type of generic GPU mining capability back into the client.

Just think if every Bitcoin user/miner installed the client on every machine they had and mined on just one CPU core at a very low priority and/or had an integrated GPU module similar to Ufasofts which did not require additional software to be installed on the machine and solo mined at a low hash rate that didn't impact computer usage, what would that do to the distributed nature of the Bitcoin network?  My WAG would be that we wouldn't be worrying about Deepbit, or any other pool, impacting the network quite some much.

Sam

[farfiman]

So the answer is - we cant do anything - this is humane nature.

Take responsibility for yourself.

In the example of a mining pool being robbed, well we have a technological solution for that already! It's called P2Pool.

If you mine on a traditional pool, you are placing your trust in the operator. This was fine and dandy when it was the only option to reduce variance.

Today we have a better option. Mining on P2Pool, you only have to trust your ability to keep your Bitcoins safe. An added bonus is that you are also helping decentralize the network. 

So again, take responsibility for yourself, and fix the world one step at a time. Protect yourself from thieves, large and small. If everyone would do this, thieves would no longer be able to exist, they would starve. They would be forced to become a contributing member of society to put food on their plate.

Just to put things straight. I have no connection to ozcoin pool, never even mined there.  The title of this thread was bouncing around in my mind for days and had to put up the thread when I read about Graets "problems" and his reaction to them( he is since back to his jolly self it seems now...)

[donatello]

LOVE runs the world.  Evil just stands out in an obvious way when it happens.

[farfiman]

I'm simply responding to "we can't do anything - this is human nature". There is plenty you can do! And it applies beyond the mining pool example. The only reason I used the mining pool example is because it was the motivation for this thread.

It looks like Graets jumped right back into working to improve and maintain the pool. This is a good reaction to have. The world doesn't stop turning because there are assholes out there. We just have to learn to pay the proper asshole tax and move on!

you are kind of contradicting yourself...

[farfiman]

What tax do you propose for greedy politicians?  For assholes on the road?
People that don't give a damn about smoking in public places?
the list goes on and on...


I am not talking about SICK people like child molesters or rapists..they deserve to die.
But supposedly "normal" people that care about nobody or anything but #1 ( themselves)

[Sannyasi]

the world has always ran this way, otherwise there would be no need for money, bitcoin included.

[farfiman]

the world has always ran this way, otherwise there would be no need for money, bitcoin included.

I don't agree - money was invented to help commerce.
So you could buy milk without having to have the exact commodity
that the milkman needs.