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Author Topic: Contracts or PPS payouts greater than 100% may be pool hopping with your hashes!  (Read 5549 times)
martychubbs
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February 08, 2012, 10:46:48 PM
 #1

Stop lying, you are hopping with everyone hashes!  I thought I saw a few hopping on Bitclockers and trying on Bitlc.  Hopping at 125% and keeping the 5% to 10% spread is a good idea, but lying and killing prop pools is lame...

So, wake up miners, your self-righteous quest to make sure everyone is equal allows the some  to take advantage of you and make you think your are equal are in fact robbing you by using your hashes against your wishes...being used unequally ala prop pools <43.5%  I guess putting a layer between hopping and your emotion/inexperience makes it easier to sleep at night.  Just like Socialism, promising you something that is unsustainable...


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60717.msg738454#msg738454
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February 08, 2012, 11:47:57 PM
 #2

How is hopping "killing prop pools" when it requires prop pools?

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martychubbs
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February 09, 2012, 12:03:29 AM
 #3

How is hopping "killing prop pools" when it requires prop pools?


heavy swings on bitclocker broke the pool and bitlc is changing payout due to a 400 gh swing. Who else hops with that hash power?
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February 09, 2012, 12:03:33 AM
 #4

How is hopping "killing prop pools" when it requires prop pools?


Other than deepbit, there is not a single proportional pool that is even running at 300 GH/s of dedicated miners anymore.  That means they can't afford (especially if they're 0%) decent servers without simply losing money.  These pool hopping "pools" then hop to them, putting massive stress on what hardware they have available, but only for short bursts, when its profitable to them.  This ends up hurting the performance of dedicated miners because those prop pools can't handle a sudden doubling (or more) of their hash rate and will start to have timeouts/increased stales.  This is on top of hurting the earnings of dedicated miners.

So, those pool ops are now slowly coming to terms with the fact that even though proportional is the most straightforward payment method (there is no backend special math/timing of share submissions involved), it simply isn't worth running.  The proportional payment system will be gone pretty soon because of this.

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February 09, 2012, 12:04:44 AM
 #5

How is hopping "killing prop pools" when it requires prop pools?


heavy swings on bitclocker broke the pool and bitlc is changing payout due to a 400 gh swing. Who else hops with that hash power?

How can you confirm 100% that bitclockers was "broke" by heavy swings ?
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February 09, 2012, 12:06:47 AM
 #6

How is hopping "killing prop pools" when it requires prop pools?


Other than deepbit, there is not a single proportional pool that is even running at 300 GH/s of dedicated miners anymore.  That means they can't afford (especially if they're 0%) decent servers without simply losing money.  These pool hopping "pools" then hop to them, putting massive stress on what hardware they have available, but only for short bursts, when its profitable to them.  This ends up hurting the performance of dedicated miners because those prop pools can't handle a sudden doubling (or more) of their hash rate and will start to have timeouts/increased stales.  This is on top of hurting the earnings of dedicated miners.

So, those pool ops are now slowly coming to terms with the fact that even though proportional is the most straightforward payment method (there is no backend special math/timing of share submissions involved), it simply isn't worth running.  The proportional payment system will be gone pretty soon because of this.

And they lie about doing it... Its like the government and the debt
martychubbs
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February 09, 2012, 12:09:34 AM
 #7

How is hopping "killing prop pools" when it requires prop pools?


heavy swings on bitclocker broke the pool and bitlc is changing payout due to a 400 gh swing. Who else hops with that hash power?

How can you confirm 100% that bitclockers was "broke" by heavy swings ?

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=10127.msg737703#msg737703
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February 09, 2012, 12:11:59 AM
 #8

How is hopping "killing prop pools" when it requires prop pools?


heavy swings on bitclocker broke the pool and bitlc is changing payout due to a 400 gh swing. Who else hops with that hash power?

How can you confirm 100% that bitclockers was "broke" by heavy swings ?

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=10127.msg737703#msg737703

So...you're taking 2 posts by users on the forum about a pool being down as a 100% confirmation that they broke the server ? LOL
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February 09, 2012, 12:42:09 AM
 #9

So...you're taking 2 posts by users on the forum about a pool being down as a 100% confirmation that they broke the server ? LOL

Note:  The two people posting are two of the people running poolhop proxies.  It certainly is interesting that someone who is running a "pool" is keeping such a close eye on other pools performance.

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February 09, 2012, 01:05:11 AM
 #10

So...you're taking 2 posts by users on the forum about a pool being down as a 100% confirmation that they broke the server ? LOL

Note:  The two people posting are two of the people running poolhop proxies.  It certainly is interesting that someone who is running a "pool" is keeping such a close eye on other pools performance.

I didn't question anything about them having interests in the uptime or performance of the pool(s).  I said...how can he be 100% positive that "huge swings" in hashrate are the reason the server "broke"...based only off 2 forum users posting about a pool being down...and that THEY were the cause of that.
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February 09, 2012, 04:58:20 AM
 #11

How is hopping "killing prop pools" when it requires prop pools?


heavy swings on bitclocker broke the pool and bitlc is changing payout due to a 400 gh swing. Who else hops with that hash power?

How can you confirm 100% that bitclockers was "broke" by heavy swings ?

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=10127.msg737703#msg737703

So...you're taking 2 posts by users on the forum about a pool being down as a 100% confirmation that they broke the server ? LOL
Lol Wink
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February 09, 2012, 05:15:12 AM
 #12

*enters stage right, does a little dance and stumbles off the stage.

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February 09, 2012, 07:50:59 AM
 #13

Really? Is that profitable?

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February 09, 2012, 08:35:41 AM
 #14

Really? Is that profitable?
if not, why should they do that?

the difference is pretty significant with high hashing power.


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February 09, 2012, 08:39:30 AM
 #15

If pool ops cared, why would they not implement one of the hop-proof pay schemes like PPLNS or DGM?

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February 09, 2012, 08:47:50 AM
 #16

solving long blocks?
yeah, good luck with that.

at least with prop, some hoppers will stay for the long rounds to get the pool outta the shit. i know i did that couple of times on mtred and bitclockers during blocks of hell.
PPLNS? no incentive to do so.


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February 09, 2012, 08:57:45 AM
 #17

solving long blocks?
yeah, good luck with that.

at least with prop, some hoppers will stay for the long rounds to get the pool outta the shit. i know i did that couple of times on mtred and bitclockers during blocks of hell.
PPLNS? no incentive to do so.

maybe you did, but its rare-  maybe if there isn't a good pool to hop to at that moment.
also there are less and less prop. pools so maybe to save a small pool they would.

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February 09, 2012, 09:14:54 AM
 #18

pft, prop pools are still gonna be here. i never mined on a dgm/pplns pools...and no plans to in the immediate future.

as long as the pool owner ask for the hoppers to help, some will help.


imagine pplns pool asking help from hopper.



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February 09, 2012, 03:06:07 PM
 #19

Switch to a NOT hoppable pool

Switch to p2pool

problem solved, byebye hoppers  Wink
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February 09, 2012, 03:22:29 PM
 #20

I really don't see the issue here, as long as people are open about it.  There are many things pools ops can do to detect and prevent hopping, and there are many things a miner can do to not lose earnings to hoppers.  None of this is a secret, there are many threads on all of this. 

Losing hundreds of Bitcoins with the best scammers in the business - BFL, Avalon, KNC, HashFast.
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