Pump and dump.

[harlenadler]

Not the most effective troll I've ever seen, but he's got a point with the low volume/momentum. Seems this whole up trend is petering out a bit. I wonder if we might head down for a bit.

[MatTheCat]

Bitcoin - instantly received, spendable within 30 minutes to 1 hr. transaction fee of roughly 5 cents

Oh yeah?

And how am I going to get Bitcoins sent to me from the UK, turned into Tanzanian Schillings that I can actually spend in Dar Es Salaam u fkn dick? I wonder what the 'LocalBitcoin' premiums on cash deals are like out there?

Ya never thought aboot that ane did ye?

Not the most effective troll I've ever seen, but he's got a point with the low volume/momentum. Seems this whole up trend is petering out a bit. I wonder if we might head down for a bit.

Yep. It is petering out for sure. The whales have stretched this sucker out as far as it can go for now I reckon. But I will probably be wrong and we will wake up with $720 Bitcoin tomorrow. What I am noticing though is some very fishy trading patterns. Like someone somewhere is rolling Bitcoins back and forward between accounts to try and manipulate the 'indicators' or something. It's all fucking bullshit, and its bad for you. But hey, if you can buy some piece of digital code for $500 one day and reliably sell it for $600 the next, who can complain?

[Xer0]

Bank transfer (ACH/wire/SEPA/etc) - 3-4 business days + big fees

Bitcoin - instantly received, spendable within 30 minutes to 1 hr. transaction fee of roughly 5 cents

nah, cant sign that, bro

first: SEPA is free and takes 1 bank day

snd: BTC's low fee is only valid when you think in Bitcoin
if the amount sent has to be received in FIAT, there can be losses even bigger then all your competitors called. most exchanges dont deposit before 6 confirmations, which is long time for an always movin market. and there are the exchanger fees and price difference between sender/receiver market

[Ibian]

Bank transfer (ACH/wire/SEPA/etc) - 3-4 business days + big fees

Bitcoin - instantly received, spendable within 30 minutes to 1 hr. transaction fee of roughly 5 cents

nah, cant sign that, bro

first: SEPA is free and takes 1 bank day

snd: BTC's low fee is only valid when you think in Bitcoin
if the amount sent has to be received in FIAT, there can be losses even bigger then all your competitors called. most exchanges dont deposit before 6 confirmations, which is long time for an always movin market. and there are the exchanger fees and price difference between sender/receiver market

SEPA is not free in any bank I know of in this particular country, and it often takes 2-3 days. Price is about 4-50 bucks depending on bank and method.

[Wolf Rainer]

Pump and dump? I only see healty grow, this is not speculation it´s real rise and i will keep on rising.

[calmindifference]

Sorry, bitcoin does solve a problem for the masses! You use bitcoin to easily and securely send money to anyone in the world for very low cost!

Let's examine the competition:

Bank transfer (ACH/wire/SEPA/etc) - 3-4 business days + big fees
Personal check / money orders - mailing time + 3-4 days to clear + small fees (also your mail can be lost by carrier)
Cash - instant + no fee BUT you have to be in the same physical location. or take the risk of losing all by sending cash in mail
Paypal - instant, but expensive fees to receive money (i think like 2-3%). also paypal can freeze your money for whatever reason they want
Western Union / Moneygram - same day transfer + big fees

Bitcoin - instantly received, spendable within 30 minutes to 1 hr. transaction fee of roughly 5 cents

Yesterdays estimated BTC transaction volume was 80,000, but 4000 new BTC got mined. That's 5% + tx fees.

[DustyRah]

Sorry, bitcoin does solve a problem for the masses! You use bitcoin to easily and securely send money to anyone in the world for very low cost!

Let's examine the competition:

Bank transfer (ACH/wire/SEPA/etc) - 3-4 business days + big fees
Personal check / money orders - mailing time + 3-4 days to clear + small fees (also your mail can be lost by carrier)
Cash - instant + no fee BUT you have to be in the same physical location. or take the risk of losing all by sending cash in mail
Paypal - instant, but expensive fees to receive money (i think like 2-3%). also paypal can freeze your money for whatever reason they want
Western Union / Moneygram - same day transfer + big fees

Bitcoin - instantly received, spendable within 30 minutes to 1 hr. transaction fee of roughly 5 cents

True that, its the most easy way to send money at this time. I just wish supermarkets and grocery stores start to accept BTC. Anyone know of any supermarket or grocery store accepting BTC at this time?

Hopefully if Amazon starts accepting it, some supermarkets may follow.

[DustyRah]

Yep. It is petering out for sure. The whales have stretched this sucker out as far as it can go for now I reckon. But I will probably be wrong and we will wake up with $720 Bitcoin tomorrow. What I am noticing though is some very fishy trading patterns. Like someone somewhere is rolling Bitcoins back and forward between accounts to try and manipulate the 'indicators' or something. It's all fucking bullshit, and its bad for you. But hey, if you can buy some piece of digital code for $500 one day and reliably sell it for $600 the next, who can complain?

There is nothing fishy mate. The volume you see is based on  positive BUY indicators. When the indicators turn SELL, you will see the opposite. Don't be paranoid, there isn't any guy sitting around buying up a whole lot of BTC at his own losses just to sell it lower than he bought it for.

Note that BTC did not go anywhere for a full month because it was neither a SELL nor a BUY as per the indicators at that time. Also, we don't have as much sucky news as we used to have thanks to the Chinese squirrels selling out and taking their nuts out of the game.

[MatTheCat]

The volume you see is based on  positive BUY indicators. When the indicators turn SELL, you will see the opposite. Don't be paranoid, there isn't any guy sitting around buying up a whole lot of BTC at his own losses just to sell it lower than he bought it for.

He doesn't have to sell BTC back at a net loss. He uses his buying power to engineer those very positive BUY indicators that you mention. For example. Place a 2K Bitcoin wall right at a major resistance point. If there are a few panic sells at the Ask Wall, buffer the Bid wall up enough to absorb the selling pressure from all the little fishies looking to lock in profits. That way, the less twitchy little fishies will see that Bitcoin isn't going to fall and will hold. When market settles, Whales then move buffer pressure in Bid wall increasingly further up towards spot, so as to form an ascending triangle against the resistance price. AT some point, the whale might take away his 2K Ask wall and see if the little fishies start panic buying way up past the resistance point. Or he might simply buy up his own wall, resulting in a huge volume spike which will then ensure that the little fishies start panic buying, thus driving the prices up. The whales doesn't take a net loss. The whale uses his buying power to engineer the market into bidding the price up which in turn increases his net value. As I have said, I suppose the desired end game might be another stampede of fresh capital piling into Bitcoin. Then the whales can really cash in before they let the market fall, by selling their coin into the stampede of new capital and ceasing to support Bitcoin with their buying power.

Exchange fees from the continual swishing of BTC and fiat between accounts?

I am sure the very biggest players are on very good terms with the exchanges, and we now know that Karpeles had fee free accounts on MtGox through which 'Willy' and 'Markus' would ramp the price. But this is the market. It may be hooky but the fact is that their are certain forces at work just now intent on ramping Bitcoin up. Only they will know when the saturation point has come or when it is no longer prudent to ramp.

It is a highly engineered market. PHACT!

[maok]

Bank transfer (ACH/wire/SEPA/etc) - 3-4 business days + big fees

Bitcoin - instantly received, spendable within 30 minutes to 1 hr. transaction fee of roughly 5 cents

nah, cant sign that, bro

first: SEPA is free and takes 1 bank day

snd: BTC's low fee is only valid when you think in Bitcoin

I sent a SEPA payment on friday night, fees were included, the receiver has to wait till monday afternoon or tuesday to receive it. Using bitcoin that would've be done in minutes depending on first confirmation, and if i have no time schedule I could send the btc transfer with no fees which will last couple of hours for the receiver to get it, with no costs. One word: evolution

[Ibian]

The volume you see is based on  positive BUY indicators. When the indicators turn SELL, you will see the opposite. Don't be paranoid, there isn't any guy sitting around buying up a whole lot of BTC at his own losses just to sell it lower than he bought it for.

He doesn't have to sell BTC back at a net loss. He uses his buying power to engineer those very positive BUY indicators that you mention. For example. Place a 2K Bitcoin wall right at a major resistance point. If there are a few panic sells at the Ask Wall, buffer the Bid wall up enough to absorb the selling pressure from all the little fishies looking to lock in profits. That way, the less twitchy little fishies will see that Bitcoin isn't going to fall and will hold. When market settles, Whales then move buffer pressure in Bid wall increasingly further up towards spot, so as to form an ascending triangle against the resistance price. AT some point, the whale might take away his 2K Ask wall and see if the little fishies start panic buying way up past the resistance point. Or he might simply buy up his own wall, resulting in a huge volume spike which will then ensure that the little fishies start panic buying, thus driving the prices up. The whales doesn't take a net loss. The whale uses his buying power to engineer the market into bidding the price up which in turn increases his net value. As I have said, I suppose the desired end game might be another stampede of fresh capital piling into Bitcoin. Then the whales can really cash in before they let the market fall, by selling their coin into the stampede of new capital and ceasing to support Bitcoin with their buying power.

Exchange fees from the continual swishing of BTC and fiat between accounts?

I am sure the very biggest players are on very good terms with the exchanges, and we now know that Karpeles had fee free accounts on MtGox through which 'Willy' and 'Markus' would ramp the price. But this is the market. It may be hooky but the fact is that their are certain forces at work just now intent on ramping Bitcoin up. Only they will know when the saturation point has come or when it is no longer prudent to ramp.

It is a highly engineered market. PHACT!

Even supposing you are right about all that. Why not work with it instead of endlessly complain about it?

[Xer0]

Bank transfer (ACH/wire/SEPA/etc) - 3-4 business days + big fees

Bitcoin - instantly received, spendable within 30 minutes to 1 hr. transaction fee of roughly 5 cents

nah, cant sign that, bro

first: SEPA is free and takes 1 bank day

snd: BTC's low fee is only valid when you think in Bitcoin
if the amount sent has to be received in FIAT, there can be losses even bigger then all your competitors called. most exchanges dont deposit before 6 confirmations, which is long time for an always movin market. and there are the exchanger fees and price difference between sender/receiver market

SEPA is not free in any bank I know of in this particular country, and it often takes 2-3 days. Price is about 4-50 bucks depending on bank and method.

what country are you in? SEPA was designed to be fast and free for all participating countries (EU+CH)

[MatTheCat]

Even supposing you are right about all that. Why not work with it instead of endlessly complain about it?

These are my observations. I have been 'working with it', but have limited myself to around 50% of the potential total upside that has been offer so far, due to anticipating 'the correction', which never seems to come, no matter how frail and weak the buying pressure seems to get.

True, had I just held, then I would have had around 90% of the upside (my initial buy-in was at $460), but then again, if I was a holder, then I would still be underwater to this day, if I hadn't already cracked and done a 'Veronica', which I probably would have.

[Ibian]

Bank transfer (ACH/wire/SEPA/etc) - 3-4 business days + big fees

Bitcoin - instantly received, spendable within 30 minutes to 1 hr. transaction fee of roughly 5 cents

nah, cant sign that, bro

first: SEPA is free and takes 1 bank day

snd: BTC's low fee is only valid when you think in Bitcoin
if the amount sent has to be received in FIAT, there can be losses even bigger then all your competitors called. most exchanges dont deposit before 6 confirmations, which is long time for an always movin market. and there are the exchanger fees and price difference between sender/receiver market

SEPA is not free in any bank I know of in this particular country, and it often takes 2-3 days. Price is about 4-50 bucks depending on bank and method.

what country are you in? SEPA was designed to be fast and free for all participating countries (EU+CH)

Denmark. They have been introducing ridiculous fees lately, dunno what it used to be. Also regular savings accounts get 0% interest. Zero. Not 0.025% like we used to, nothing.

[maok]

what country are you in? SEPA was designed to be fast and free for all participating countries (EU+CH)

SEPA was designed to lower transfer fees between european countries to those of domestic national transfers which are not free, even same bank to bank transfer has a fee in place so I really don't know which bank you're using with free transfers. Also 4 days is not fast(friday, sat, sunday, monday) unless you live before 18th century when money was moved using horse carriages, in those times 4 days is pretty fast I agree.

[gentlemand]

what country are you in? SEPA was designed to be fast and free for all participating countries (EU+CH)

SEPA was designed to lower transfer fees between european countries to those of domestic national transfers which are not free, even same bank to bank transfer has a fee in place so I really don't know which bank you're using with free transfers. Also 4 days is not fast(friday, sat, sunday, monday) unless you live before 18th century when money was moved using horse carriages, in those times 4 days is pretty fast I agree.

In the UK you can bank transfer yourself stupid and it costs absolutely nothing. It arrives within the minute usually too. I'm not sure if my bank does SEPA but any transfer abroad is still pretty expensive.

[MatTheCat]

SEPA was designed to lower transfer fees between european countries to those of domestic national transfers which are not free, even same bank to bank transfer has a fee in place so I really don't know which bank you're using with free transfers. Also 4 days is not fast(friday, sat, sunday, monday) unless you live before 18th century when money was moved using horse carriages, in those times 4 days is pretty fast I agree.

Right.

I have a UK bank account and a German bank account.

To send via SEPA using my German bank account, it is same day, and costs nothing.

To send via SEPA using my UK bank account, it costs me around 4% premium on the total I sent if I want it there next banking day. This is fucking expensive true enough, which is why I get money onto Bitstamp (or I used to do it b4 Bitstamp started requesting anal probes), by sending funds to my German account via Transferwise (0.5%) fees or less if I am prepared to wait, and then transfer the funds from my German account to Bitstamp for free using SEPA. I don't use Transferwise or any of the other cheaper money transfer options to fund Bitstamp account directly, because they are prohibited from allowing transfers to Bitcoin exchanges.

I cannot think of any possible circumstances where it would be too my advantage to send Bitcoin other than Fiat currency to anyone abroad. For any currency in any developed or economically powerful nation, Transferwise or similar services can be used to send funds from as little as 0.25% fees. For sending funds to some 3rd world nation, what fkn good is Bitcoin going to be to anyone in Tanzania anyway? Even if there was a means of exchanging the Bitcoin, for Fiat that can actually be spent, the premiums would be fucking horrendous.

[Ibian]

Bank transfer (ACH/wire/SEPA/etc) - 3-4 business days + big fees

Bitcoin - instantly received, spendable within 30 minutes to 1 hr. transaction fee of roughly 5 cents

nah, cant sign that, bro

first: SEPA is free and takes 1 bank day

snd: BTC's low fee is only valid when you think in Bitcoin
if the amount sent has to be received in FIAT, there can be losses even bigger then all your competitors called. most exchanges dont deposit before 6 confirmations, which is long time for an always movin market. and there are the exchanger fees and price difference between sender/receiver market

SEPA is not free in any bank I know of in this particular country, and it often takes 2-3 days. Price is about 4-50 bucks depending on bank and method.

what country are you in? SEPA was designed to be fast and free for all participating countries (EU+CH)

Denmark. They have been introducing ridiculous fees lately, dunno what it used to be. Also regular savings accounts get 0% interest. Zero. Not 0.025% like we used to, nothing.

ah, ok. because you dont have EURO as state currency

SEPA is free for EU countries and tranfers in EURO, would be correct

That could be it I suppose. If so, a worthwhile tradeoff. Our Great Leaders tried to switch us to euro 3 times. We voted no every time until they stopped trying, and sentiment polls have remained negative.

[maok]

I have a UK bank account and a German bank account.

To send via SEPA using my German bank account, it is same day, and costs nothing.

Sepa is based on your domestic fee for your particular bank, SEPA is not free across European Union

really same day ? must be nice for you, I wish I was with a bank that works during weekends.

[MatTheCat]

I have a UK bank account and a German bank account.

To send via SEPA using my German bank account, it is same day, and costs nothing.

Sepa is based on your domestic fee for your particular bank, SEPA is not free across European Union

really same day ? must be nice for you, I wish I was with a bank that works during weekends.

I get the feeling that I, and the others who have responded to your relentless tin drum banging about Bitcoin's supposed advantages in sending funds across the world, are speaking to a brick wall.

I don't know where you are in the world. But say you wanted to send me Funds of say $10K in value. Explain to me one single advantage of using Bitcoin instead of the various other cash transfer methods and I will tell you why you are wrong. Please don't bleat on about 10-60 minute transfer times and tiny fees, because remember, I in the UK still need to turn that Bitcoin into physical or digital cash that I can spend. So tell me, what are the advantages of using Bitcoin, presuming that I don't care if the transaction is traceable or not?