Mining VS Buying Bitcoins

[CroMiner]

Hallo there,

I have a Question and I hope someone can point me in the right direction.

I am looking to Invest 4500 USD in Mining Hardware, but keeping in mind the difficulty increase of Scrypt and SHA-256 networks I am not sure which Asic Hardware is more profitable in the long run.

I noted that LTC which I will use to demonstrate the Scrypt difficulty increase had a monthly difficulty increase of 80% from March 1 to April 1 ( Probably when Gridseed blades flooded the Market) and as a result a MAJOR downtrend on sites like CleverMining where the profitability for BTC per MH/S started to go down rapidly.

Then, from April 1 to May 1 the difficulty increased another 25%, and from May 1 to June 1 the difficulty increased another 27%.
So we see when we are in a month where companies SHIP their new SCRYPT asics the difficulty increases to about 80% and in regular months we see a NORMAL difficulty increase of about 25 - 30%.


Regarding SHA-256 difficulty increase ( using Bitcoin as an example ) we have seen a 30% difficulty increase from March 1 to April 1, then a 60% increase from April 1 to May 1 ( probably when KNC Shipped ) and last month we have seen a 30% increase in difficulty..

So like all Miners I am thinking which way to go regarding my Investment. I have an advantage of free electricity which I think IS THE ONLY WAY to ever see a ROI and a small profit, and ONLY if I go the route of purchasing second hand Bitcoin Asic Miners who lots value because of OLD CHIPS and HIGH electricity cost.

But still, I am not sure which route to take..Mine or Buy Bitcoins, even with free electricity..

Eventual Start of Mining would be July 1.
Before ordering I will be monitoring the difficulty increase from June 1 To 22 June, and than make a decision and purchase a second hand miner on ebay or a similar site to get my Miner by UPS by July 1.

So far I noted that a 4500 Budget would get me about 3TH/s ( Ordering June 22 ) which daily would give me about 0.000075 Per GH/s on sites like multipool.us ( or a bit more, but lets assume the diff will go up by 50% by July 1 ) which would give me 0.225 BTC per day with a revenue decrease of "lets hope" no more than 20 % every 2 weeks.

Or a 50 MH/s Scrypt Asic Miner which would give me in best case scenarios only 0.0015 per MH/s, resulting in a 0.07 BTC revenue per day with a revenue decrease of MIN 30 - 40% Monthly.

So we see here that Scrypt Asic Mining will never get You a chance of ROI..So IF ANY KIND of mining then 100% SHA-256 Mining..
So far SHA-256 Multipool Mining looks like the only option for me to ever see a ROI and a small profit, but ONLY FOR PEOPLE who have FREE Electricity, because even here there is NO ROI when You have to pay for Electricity !!

So far I am thinking that my most profitable route would be to purchase older second hand POWER HUNGRY Bitcoin Asic Miners to take advantage of my FREE Electricity and to hope for a ROI and a small profit by July 2015..

Would love to hear your thoughts on this topic.

Thanks

[klondike_bar]

i personally think that bitcoin will be the highlander - there can only be one cryptocurrency that will take the world by storm in the next ~2 years and that will be bitcoin with the largest market cap by a longshot. LTC is rapidly losing value and the introduction of ASICs is pushing away the hobby miners that originally touted the asic-resistant scrypt algorithm.

if you can run things in a basement/garage with ventilation and soundproofing, go with the SP10 units for bitcoin. you could get 1 for well within your budget, or two for about ~$6000 total including shipping and taxes.

if you have a butt-ton of cooling and power, and perhaps are more sensitive to noise the S1/S2 antminers are great products but currently need to undergo a price drop

[Unacceptable]

Forget mining BTC,it'll be over for "at home" miners in a few months,UNLESS BTC hits & STAYS around $700+ 

Scrypt ASICS to mine scrypt coins then sell em for BTC,even altcoins will be unprofitable by late this year from what I'm seeing being released around sept, KNC & others BIG altcoin ASIC's.

There's a lot of altcoins to mine & study,so I may be wrong,its a wait & see ATM 

[CroMiner]

Thanks for the Comments
SCRYPT only coins have no future and the more I think about it the more I see that investing in Asic Scrypt right now is a suicide IMO.
If any Scrypt coin will survive it will for sure not be Litecoin which uses the regular Scrypt algo, I have more trust in x11 coins or the n-factor coins like Vertcoin and similar, and for now those Scrypt asics are WAY overpriced and most important they are not capable to mine x11 neither the n-factor Coins, and WILL NEVER EVER SEE A ROI !!

So I think there will be MAJOR disappointment to anyone who purchased or will purchase them because they will never get a ROI, neither a profit of any kind ! The profitability is NOT THERE ANYMORE ! My claim is backed by the information that there are NO new Scrypt Coins coming out, and we see a lot of this on clevermining and similar sites:

"We are Mining a lot of LTC today because the Scrypt Market is a bit dry today..etc"

Which in other words mean, the SCRYPT mania is OVER..!

There is simply no room for profitability in the Scrypt only algo right now, because there are no NEW Scrypt ASIC minable coins that are hitting the Market to mine Scrypt only profitable, the MAJOR upcurves ( to profitably trade to BTC ) are now on Scrypt upgraded algos like x11 coins & n-factor..And like I wrote those SCRYPT ASIC Miners can not Mine x11 neither n-facor coins, which makes them unattractive to me.

So Yes, I really think that mining SHA-256 on sites like multipool.us is the best way to go right now, BUT ONLY IF YOU HAVE FREE ELECTRICITY and if You can get Your hands on second hand ( older chip asics - more power consumption ) mining hardware to take advantage of the FREE electricity and the low selling price of those miners..A ROI and a small profit IS ONLY POSSIBLE THIS WAY !!

So with that being said, can someone point me in the right direction and suggest a older power hungry Asic Bitcoin Miner that goes CHEAP ??

So far the S2 AntMiner is my #1 choice, but I am still waiting to get them for $1000 by June 22..If The Price by then is still above that number they are not more an option for me..Because a mining start date above July makes them unprofitable as well, even with free electricity. So I am hoping the price will drop like we have seen every two weeks so far..Honestly I can't see anyone purchasing the S2 machine above $1000 by end of June, because a price of $1000 for an S2 on June 22 would mean delivery/start of Mining July 1 and a ROI & Profit of about 0.08 BTC by DEC. 2014, and I don't think that ANYONE would mine for 6 Months just to get a ROI and a tiny 0.08 BTC profit..

So I am positive that the S2 miner will be valued about $1000 or even less by June 22 and that I could get lets say 4 of them to start Mining by July 1 and to make a ROI in 2 months and a 7 BTC profit by July 2015, with an average monthly diff increase of about 40%, and if the average diff increase is lower the profit would be even bigger ( Max. 2-3 BTC more ).

Once more, my Numbers are based on my FREE electricity and I done the math without the el. Cost of $130 Monthly per unit.

One more option I have is : I can also just purchase 7 BTC right now for $4500..

So if I decide to go the MINING route it will only be if I can find a cheap SECOND HAND bitcoin power hungry Asic Miner ( around $1000 for 1TH/s by June 22 ) so I could take advantage of my FREE ELECTRICITY.

Because there is absolute no chance of a PROFIT if You pay for electricity with a Miner purchased above $1000 for 1TH/s after 22 June !!

If I do not find a second hand Miner for $1000 for 1TH/s by JUNE 22 then purchasing 7 BTC sounds like the ONLY OPTION for me to ever see 7 BTC.

So if there are any second hand Asic POWER HUNGRY Bitcoin Miners that go for $1000 for 1TH/s ( does not have to be 1 stanalone unit ) Please point me in the right direction.

Once more, MINING will get You a ROI only by purchasing OLD SECOND HAND POWER HUNGRY Asic Miners combined with FREE ELECTRICITY. Paying for electricity will NOT GET YOU A ROI neither a Profit..Not with this $ / GH/s ratio we are seing today !

I feel real bad for people who think different, or should I say who use the profitability calculator with current network difficulty..

Looking forward to Your suggestions for cheap Second hand ( power hungry/or not ) Mining Hardware.

Thanks in advance..

[Unacceptable]

Dude,BTC mining with 1 TH,ATM gets .04BTC per day.With 5 S1's @ about 2300 watts,@ .13 per kwh that's $330 a month in electricity.Making 1.25 BTC per month @ $600 per BTC=$420 profit.We JUST NOW hit $600,BTC was $450 for a few months......so,I made $232.........  

Now that was if diff stayed the same for that month,it wouldn't  

You see where I'm going or are you blind

When the network hits 150Petahash by late this year...and it will...you'll make .02BTC per day.that's .62BTC per month  

IF BTC is $600 or LESS,your screwed........IF BTC is $1000,your still screwed  

Have fun!!!

BTW,my altcoin ASIC's will ROI in 2 months 

[CroMiner]

Thanks for the answer..

Ok, all I said is that a 1TH/s Miner purchased for more then $1000 after June 22 has no chance of ROI neither a profit, not even with FREE ELECTRICITY !

P.s. Good luck with that Asic Scrypt miner, because I do not see any chance of any kind of ROI with this MH/s to USD ratio!
And Yes, I done my calculations for the Scrypt Asics as well with FREE ELECTRICITY ( Hashra, Zeusminer, Knc TITAN etc. )

Just type in diff increase 3-5% and You will see what I am talking about..

Or to make it easier to understand: Even by using sites like CleverMining etc. You will be making 0.001 BTC per MH/s by end of June.

And I do not see any chance of making a ROI with those numbers.

Example : Lets say someone purchased a Hashra Scrypt Asic by June 22 - 75 MH/s cost $7900

He would be Mining 75 x 0.001 = 0.075 BTC per day making him a 1.5 -2 BTC per month ( diff increases every couple of days ).

So there is ABSOLUTE no chance of ROI because the next month the diff will go up by another 25 - 30%, and so on..
The ONLY chance is if You get lucky and the BTC price goes to $2xxx range..

I am not saying its not possible to make a profit with Asic Scrypt miners, but only if You steal them

So good luck with that..

[Unacceptable]

Thanks for the answer..

Ok, all I said is that a 1TH/s Miner purchased for more then $1000 after June 22 has no chance of ROI neither a profit, not even with FREE ELECTRICITY !

P.s. Good luck with that Asic Scrypt miner, because I do not see any chance of any kind of ROI with this MH/s to USD ratio!
And Yes, I done my calculations for the Scrypt Asics as well with FREE ELECTRICITY ( Hashra, Zeusminer, Knc TITAN etc. )

Just type in diff increase 3-5% and You will see what I am talking about..

Or to make it easier to understand: Even by using sites like CleverMining etc. You will be making 0.001 BTC per MH/s by end of June.

And I do not see any chance of making a ROI with those numbers.

Example : Lets say someone purchased a Hashra Scrypt Asic by June 22 - 75 MH/s cost $7900

He would be Mining 75 x 0.001 = 0.075 BTC per day making him a 1.5 -2 BTC per month ( diff increases every couple of days ).

Any then tell me how someone can see a ROI here when the next month the diff will go up by another 40 - 50%..

I am not saying its not possible to make a profit with Asic Scrypt miners, but only if You steal them

So good luck with that..

Don't buy those MASSIVE over priced miners,get the little gridseeds or the 5mh ones,price keeps dropping too.

None of the profitability calcs are any good,they're just a general guide,thier diffs are not kept up to date.

I've got 10mh now & use about 750 watts (3 vid cards,9 baby gridseeds & 1 5mh gridseed) & I'm making .025BTC per day  

I'll shut my vid cards off when my next 5mh miner gets here next week & lose about 500+ watts  

There are SOOO many coins to watch & the only way to see how much their worth is to mine them for about 6 hrs & do the math.

I've got 6-8 coins I see that work & switch every few days to the next one,its working   I'm making more with less power & love it!!!!

I exchange my coins every few days for BTC.

[CroMiner]

Sure, good for You my friend..

I am also Mining Scrypt right now, have about 8.8 MH/s on my 3 POWER HUNGRY GPU rigs, using about 3.6 KW, but like I wrote I have free electricity. Started 57 days ago with an average of 0.005 BTC per MH/s and now I am getting only 0.0019 BTC per MH/s, which is the new standard now, and we are going to 0.001 SUPER FAST, so be sure to multiply Your hashrate by x 5 - 10 times if You would like to mine scrypt for another month or Two and then double the hashrate again in 2 months etc..!

Its a FAST game my friend..And all hardware is WAY overpriced to match the diff increase !!

That's the reason I am always JOKING that the only way to be profitable in mining is if You have FREE electricity and You steal the Miner..LOL

Because purchasing them for the prices advertised for A2, Hashra, or KNCs would never bring You a ROI, they are simply overpriced & its not possible to get a ROI with them, neither a profit!

So Yes, the heat is on to do something..That's the reason I am here, looking for ways to make more profit, to use my FREE electricity the best possible way to get as much BTC as possible per month.

Because the Mining hardware is SO OVERPRICED that even people like me who have FREE ELECTRICITY struggle to make a profit mining !

Who to blame : People who are using profitability calculators with current difficulty and who are willing to pay those prices to Mining Hardware  manufacturers..They even PRE-ORDER under the impression they will make some money etc.

We must do something by creating a MAJOR difficulty profitability calculator so everyone can calculate correctly and by doing so reduce this CRAZY prices that can never make even a ROI, because for now the only people who are making money in this rat race are the hardware manufacturers.

Because WHY WOULD THEY reduce the prices to a point where a profit for us miners are possible if there are people willing to pay current prices !

 

[bit-joker]

Crominer,

Unfortunately most profitability calculators don't take into account difficulty increase. I went to coinwarz.com and saw I could make 0.0481 bitcoins a day using a 1000gh/s machine. I multiplied for 365 and thought I could make 17.55 bitcoins in a year! That would be almost 8.000 usd if the price kept at 450 usd/BTC.

I thought, WOW! I could buy an Antminer S2 for 2k usd and break-even in less than two months! Too good to be true. I checked other profitability calculators and all gave me the same number.

Then I checked tradeblock.com/mining/
So even with free electricity, a mining rig ROI+20% would take a year with FREE electricity!

And hardware companies are lowering the price constantly, it's more like gambling. You're not going to recover your money (and time). And when you buy a 1000GH/s today for 2k usd, the same company is selling pre-orders for a 3X GH/s machine for that same 2k usd in 3 months period (spoondoolies). So you have 3 months before difficulty increases and your mining rig decreases in value by less than half in a short period of time.

You're mostly right. It's profitable only with free electricity and stolen hardware. I looked for the cheaper GH/s per dollar and it's the Antminer S1 (that unfortunately goes up in price with BTC). But take into account the amount of space, cables, PSUs you'll need. With an SP10 you'll have the equivalent of 8 S1's using only 1.25U rack space. And with the increase in S1 prices, you'll end up paying 1.8 usd per Gh/s.

Current price is 2 usd per GH/s. For August, SP30 would be 1 usd per GH/s.

Mining is commoditized. Only massive farms with close-to-free electricity will be making a profit.

My advice? Stay away from Bitcoin from now. BTC price is +40% in less than a month and mining hardware is overpriced too. Bitcoin could go up another 40% but I wouldn't count on the bigger fool's theory this time.

[CroMiner]

Crominer,

Unfortunately most profitability calculators don't take into account difficulty increase. I went to coinwarz.com and saw I could make 0.0481 bitcoins a day using a 1000gh/s machine. I multiplied for 365 and thought I could make 17.55 bitcoins in a year! That would be almost 8.000 usd if the price kept at 450 usd/BTC.

I thought, WOW! I could buy an Antminer S2 for 2k usd and break-even in less than two months! Too good to be true. I checked other profitability calculators and all gave me the same number.

Hi there,

Thanks for sharing Your funny beginner experience, I know you lost money there but still, Your story is super funny and the MAIN reason why Mining Hardware is so OVERPRICED Because beginners keep the price High, Simply because they make an order on OVERPRICED miners, so why would the Miner manufacturer ask for less if you are willing to pay more

Hopefully You have learned Your lesson and will be more careful in the future..

Regarding profitability calculations always use this one below :
http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php

[bit-joker]

Actually I didn't bought the miner. I WAS about to buy 3 units (4500 gh/s). Did my diligence and realized it was too good to be true (ROI in 2 months). Maybe I'll buy an SP30 (1 dollar per Gh/s) if the price stabilizes and they ship (no pre-order). We don't know what will happen in 3 months.

[Unacceptable]

I do    BTC Network hashrate will keep rising,mainly due to greedy mining corps seeking massive profit    150 Petahash will be here in 2-3 months 

Mining at home for BTC is over,altcoins as CroMiner stated may well not last much longer either,BUT as I said there ALOT of other coins.It takes a lot of trial & error.

CroMiner,sell your GPU's & get those little Gridseeds,at 7 watts per 350-375 mh you can't go wrong (saw some on Ebay for $60),or just use your GPU's on the x11 & other ASIC proof coins 

With free power you should do quite well for another 2 months or so, till KNC & the others start shipping 

Good luck guys!!!!!!!!

[seljo]

Crominer,

Unfortunately most profitability calculators don't take into account difficulty increase. I went to coinwarz.com and saw I could make 0.0481 bitcoins a day using a 1000gh/s machine. I multiplied for 365 and thought I could make 17.55 bitcoins in a year! That would be almost 8.000 usd if the price kept at 450 usd/BTC.

I thought, WOW! I could buy an Antminer S2 for 2k usd and break-even in less than two months! Too good to be true. I checked other profitability calculators and all gave me the same number.

Hi there,

Thanks for sharing Your funny beginner experience, I know you lost money there but still, Your story is super funny and the MAIN reason why Mining Hardware is so OVERPRICED Because beginners keep the price High, Simply because they make an order on OVERPRICED miners, so why would the Miner manufacturer ask for less if you are willing to pay more

Hopefully You have learned Your lesson and will be more careful in the future..

Regarding profitability calculations always use this one below :
http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php

Well I have to remind you that customs in Cro, where you get your username from, have changed some rules about importing stuff from outside EU check it out before buying anything and google EORI number you'll gonna need it. Also you would do much better if you just bought btc today you could get 7.15 btc for 4500$ check your calc if any of your options is going to mine that amount in next 12 months.

[DolanDuck]

Mining VS Buying Bitcoins?

If you want to invest some money to try to breakeven your initial sum, buy mining equipment.
If you want some profit, buy bitcoins from a trusted exchange.

[micax1]

imho, just buy bitcoins...

[CroMiner]

Do You think I should Buy instead of Mining them even when I have FREE electricity would be Mining them at multipool.us where I would get about 0.00010 BTC - DAY per GH/s ?

[seljo]

Do You think I should Buy instead of Mining them even when I have FREE electricity would be Mining them at multipool.us where I would get about 0.00010 BTC - DAY per GH/s ?

0.0001 per day for how long?

[smoothie]

Dude,BTC mining with 1 TH,ATM gets .04BTC per day.With 5 S1's @ about 2300 watts,@ .13 per kwh that's $330 a month in electricity.Making 1.25 BTC per month @ $600 per BTC=$420 profit.We JUST NOW hit $600,BTC was $450 for a few months......so,I made $232.........  

Now that was if diff stayed the same for that month,it wouldn't  

You see where I'm going or are you blind

When the network hits 150Petahash by late this year...and it will...you'll make .02BTC per day.that's .62BTC per month  

IF BTC is $600 or LESS,your screwed........IF BTC is $1000,your still screwed  

Have fun!!!

BTW,my altcoin ASIC's will ROI in 2 months 

Probably but not 100% gauranteed.

[XScrypt]

If you want to lose money, buying mining equipment is a good way to do it right now.

A lot of people fail to take everything into account when calculating their ROI, especially difficulty increases. And just think, if you've got the money to buy an ASIC miner how many other people do too? What happens when all this new hashing power comes online?