POLL: Pumping Bots

[ElectricMucus]

Now it's almost a week since the Willy report surfaced, so traders do you really think mtgox/ Mark K. was the only exchange operator to be stupid enough to manipulate the market with fake liquidity.
Feel free to debate the usual "No the Willy bot wasn't really happening" , "The bot had actual liquidity behind it" - nonsense, in that case please only vote option 6.

Yes, I think the Willy report is factual and suspect that practice to be a common thing.

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[podyx]

Butthurt bears be like

[Ibian]

Don't give a damn. It's still someones real money being traded with. Doesn't matter.

[ElectricMucus]

Don't give a damn. It's still someones real money being traded with. Doesn't matter.

Exactly that's the nonsense I was writing about. The point exactly is what the report says, that it wasn't real money.

[Ibian]

Don't give a damn. It's still someones real money being traded with. Doesn't matter.

Exactly that's the nonsense I was writing about. The point exactly is what the report says, that it wasn't real money.

Let me expand a bit.

It really doesn't matter. Whatever drives the price up or down, the current price is what you can get them for. As long as you can still get your money in and out of exchanges everything is fine. Leave the legalistic stuff to the courts. It doesn't change that the price will ultimately have to go up with adoption.

[ElectricMucus]

Don't give a damn. It's still someones real money being traded with. Doesn't matter.

Exactly that's the nonsense I was writing about. The point exactly is what the report says, that it wasn't real money.

Let me expand a bit.

It really doesn't matter. Whatever drives the price up or down, the current price is what you can get them for. As long as you can still get your money in and out of exchanges everything is fine. Leave the legalistic stuff to the courts. It doesn't change that the price will ultimately have to go up with adoption.

Yeah, the price can go up quite a bit because of the fraudulent pumping, but who the hell cares about that, right?

[Ibian]

Don't give a damn. It's still someones real money being traded with. Doesn't matter.

Exactly that's the nonsense I was writing about. The point exactly is what the report says, that it wasn't real money.

Let me expand a bit.

It really doesn't matter. Whatever drives the price up or down, the current price is what you can get them for. As long as you can still get your money in and out of exchanges everything is fine. Leave the legalistic stuff to the courts. It doesn't change that the price will ultimately have to go up with adoption.

Yeah, the price can go up quite a bit because of the fraudulent pumping, but who the hell cares about that, right?

I do. Means I make money. Then I make more money when the price crashes.

[ElectricMucus]

Me too, the thing is it feels more and more like a game of musical chairs.

[JimboToronto]

Butthurt bears be like

LOL

[Ibian]

Me too, the thing is it feels more and more like a game of musical chairs.

That's when you have become good at it. The magic is gone and you see the man behind the curtain, and the newbies being dazzled by his bullshit.

[MatTheCat]

I tend to believe that Bitstamp is a well run ship in terms of maintaining USD and FIAT liquidity.

BTC-e = Dodgy as fuck, Bitfinex = Dodgy as fuck and since they route a lot of trade through Bitstamp, Bitstamp will reflect the bullshit trading of Bitfinex to a certain degree.

Bitstamp however is the main whale exchange and whilst the volume may not be fake, there is certainly some whale consortium using their buying power to engineer series after series of positive BUY signals. Today alone, several times already have I seen a solid 200 BTC sell wall go up at a perfectly round number. For the market to sit staring at the Ask Wall, only for a flurry of buying to devour that wall. The majority of the buying of the 200 BTC wall will no doubt be the whale consortium buying back their own coins. The panic buying that follows and pushes the price up $10-$20 or so, are the little fishies responding to the engineered buy signals. The whale sells 200 BTC to himself. The proles get excited at the enthusiasm for Bitcoin at these prices and pile in after him.

That is just one example of many things I have noticed. Bull run is based largely in pump n dump mechanics, but then the pump n dump would or will only work if the market conditions are right. It's all bullshit, but who knows, perhaps we are heading into another engineered Bitcoin mania where new capital really will be enticed into Bitcoin at the sight of the rapidly rising price with one eye, with the other eye on $10-$266, and then $60 - $1160, thinking "omfg, it's so obvious what is away to happen again!"

As for the Chinese exchanges. Hooky as fuck. Every single mother fucking last one of them. Except for perhaps BTC China.

[piramida]

The whale sells 200 BTC to himself.

While the other whales all died and there is only one at the market at one time right? Don't imagine too many things, sometimes a 200 BTC buy is just a guy who wanted to buy 200 BTC, and a 200 BTC wall is just another guy who wanted to take some profit. You need some more solid data before it becomes anything other than some overly obsessive observations.

Really, when you stare at the price ticks too long you see demons in there which exist only in your mind; this happens to truckers, captains, stock traders and other people who stare at one point for too long.

[inca]

I am wondering if you bought back in Mat.

[MOB]

I would guess no.  He would be less bitter if he was riding this up. me thinks.

[MatTheCat]

I am wondering if you bought back in Mat.

In and out several times. First buy in was $460-$520, which was the largest slice of action that I have bagged. I have been anticipating a correction for some time,  but Bitcoin keeps pumping. Currently in (again) since $650, but the elastic band does seem to be getting stretched thinner and thinner......will be coming out in the $680's I think. One of those times, I will get out and the correction proper will occur, and then I will be able to pat myself on the back which may compensate for the fact that I have taken a bit less than 50% of the profts that I could have had, if I had just bought at $460 and HODLED like a Bitcoin Nutter.

Question is. If leeches like me are in and out of Bitcoin, filling up our trading accounts with Fiat as Bitcoin continues to rise, who is paying for it? Where is the fiat coming from to tip me and thousands more just like me with a few $K extra pocket money within a week? And to be sure, Niether me, nor the thousands more like me, will be holding through any correction period and going into red even slightly. So who is paying?

[MOB]

To put that number a different way, one would make 250% of the profit by holding from 460-680 versus if you jumped in from 460-520 & 650-680.  That said, no one got poor taking a profit.

[MatTheCat]

To put that number a different way, one would make 250% of the profit by holding from 460-680 versus if you jumped in from 460-520 & 650-680.  That said, no one got poor taking a profit.

Been in and out a few more times at that at price ranges in between. And you are right. Obviously I can buy significantly less BTC with $10K now than I could last week at my first buy-in. But I am a shit trader. I know that already......

........and besides, Bitcoin doesn't behave like a rational organic market. It behaves like a market with some very powerful hands pushing it this way or that and I guess I am not that attuned yet to 2nd guessing the extremities that this market is capable off.

[MOB]

To put that number a different way, one would make 250% of the profit by holding from 460-680 versus if you jumped in from 460-520 & 650-680.  That said, no one got poor taking a profit.

Been in and out a few more times at that at price ranges in between. And you are right. Obviously I can buy significantly less BTC with $10K now than I could last week at my first buy-in. But I am a shit trader. I know that already.

I am terrible at trading as well.  Every time I am up I get nervous and want to sell.

The second bubble I went in and out like you are doing, by the third I was just sick of BTC just caught the dead cat bounce, now I am finally just HODLing with 10/21 as my signals.  Here goes nothing.  I'll probably get drunk and sell it all right before the real bubble starts.

[BTCtrader71]

I am wondering if you bought back in Mat.

In and out several times. First buy in was $460-$520, which was the largest slice of action that I have bagged. I have been anticipating a correction for some time,  but Bitcoin keeps pumping. Currently in (again) since $650, but the elastic band does seem to be getting stretched thinner and thinner......will be coming out in the $680's I think. One of those times, I will get out and the correction proper will occur, and then I will be able to pat myself on the back which may compensate for the fact that I have taken a bit less than 50% of the profts that I could have had, if I had just bought at $460 and HODLED like a Bitcoin Nutter.

If you really must be a trader (as opposed to a pure HODLer), you should buy below the long-term trendline (like 50% below or more) (using an exponential trendline like the one advocated by Risto, Slippery Slope) and sell above the trendline (like twice the trendline or higher). In so doing, you will (1) make money, and (2) help to smooth out the booms and busts, which will be a good thing for bitcoin as a whole.

[MatTheCat]

The second bubble I went in and out like you are doing, by the third I was just sick of BTC just caught the dead cat bounce, now I am finally just HODLing with 10/21 as my signals.  Here goes nothing.  I'll probably get drunk and sell it all right before the real bubble starts.

Going by Elliot Wave theory, $340 - $548, could be a WAVE [ I] , $548 - $420 would be a WAVE [II]. Now Perhaps $420 - $675(+) could be a WAVE [III], but perhaps, $420 - $675(+) could be a WAVE (i) of a Wave [III]. If that were the case, then we could see a Wave (ii) down to the mid/upper $500s, before Bitcoin consolidated and recommenced on what would be the WAVE (iii) of its WAVE [III] rise. If something along these lines were to play out, then this would be an insanely bullish BUY signal.......and you know what, I think this market action is being managed/manipulated big style. If I was looking to engineer an insane rush of capital into Bitcoin, then that is exactly the sort of chart action that I would be looking to create.