Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump.

[jonald_fyookball]

And since few people are looking at those waves
(and since they can be interpreted differently),
people aren't engineering the market that way.

If whales are in fact trying to move the market
(I wouldn't even call that market manipulation), they are using
a much simpler strategy of just trying to create
momentum in favor of their trades.

Perhaps. But if you were sitting on sidelines earlier today with a fair chunk of capital and bullish on Bitcoin. Would you be looking to invest long term at $650, after a 35% rise in less than a week without any meaningful correction, or would you be waiting on 'the correction' to occur before entering market. Corrections are important psychologically for bull markets whether the majority of players are looking at Elliott Waves or not.

Question is, is a 30 minute flash crash sufficient and was $618 the bottom of 'the correction', or does their need to be more correcting/consolidating before sidelines capital feels comfortable to enter the market?

down to $618 is plenty of a correction... you're only going to get so much of a correction during a bull spike anyway.  
And you don't necessarily have to wait.  Amateur mistake is waiting for the correction that never comes and missing
out on the trend...(and then later chasing it)... better to put on at least a partial position if you see a breakout
is happening. 

This is in the context of a larger move over the next few weeks, say...
(Relative to $440, price already moved a lot to $650...so if you missed that move, you just missed it)

[Torque]

Let's look at the facts :

No bad news for weeks.

China FUD just disappeared overnight?  The witch hunt FUD for the real Satoshi disappeared overnight?  Bitstamp insolvency fears, Willy, Gox, and all the other bad news gone?  And for some reason, you don't wonder why that is?  Couldn't possibly be on purpose, by design that all bad news just magically went away, could it?

And you think that's air you're breathing now, Neo?  

(full disclaimer: I'm a permabull, but I know exactly how the media works, when, and for what purpose)

[MatTheCat]

down to $618 is plenty of a correction... you're only going to get so much of a correction during a bull spike anyway.  
And you don't necessarily have to wait.  Amateur mistake is waiting for the correction that never comes and missing
out on the trend...(and then later chasing it)... better to put on at least a partial position if you see a breakout
is happening. 

This is in the context of a larger move over the next few weeks, say...
(Relative to $440, price already moved a lot to $650...so if you missed that move, you just missed it)

I suspect that there were a whole lot of leveraged long traders looking to cash out their trades at around the $700 mark. Now they are waiting for Bitcoin to get back up to the $680 level. But if the longs are maxed out, who is going to take Bitcoin back up there with sufficient volume in the Bid wall for these guys to cash out? If there has been new investment that has come to Bitcoin then most of it is already in for the time being. I suspect that this market shake down could go a good bit further down than $618, as buying pressure fails to take Bitcoin back up to it's high and the leveraged longs grow increasingly twitchy. Owning an asset outright and waiting on the market to come back to you is one thing, but being in debt due to a leveraged position as the market goes against your trade is a different psychological can of worms altogether.

[kireinaha]

people keep using the words "market manipulation" here. I don't think these words mean what you think they mean.

[DolanDuck]

The price seems to be manipulated in my opinion because there's huge buy walls that are being created by a single or a couple of whales in the same time.

[zimmah]

down to $618 is plenty of a correction... you're only going to get so much of a correction during a bull spike anyway.  
And you don't necessarily have to wait.  Amateur mistake is waiting for the correction that never comes and missing
out on the trend...(and then later chasing it)... better to put on at least a partial position if you see a breakout
is happening. 

This is in the context of a larger move over the next few weeks, say...
(Relative to $440, price already moved a lot to $650...so if you missed that move, you just missed it)

I suspect that there were a whole lot of leveraged long traders looking to cash out their trades at around the $700 mark. Now they are waiting for Bitcoin to get back up to the $680 level. But if the longs are maxed out, who is going to take Bitcoin back up there with sufficient volume in the Bid wall for these guys to cash out? If there has been new investment that has come to Bitcoin then most of it is already in for the time being. I suspect that this market shake down could go a good bit further down than $618, as buying pressure fails to take Bitcoin back up to it's high and the leveraged longs grow increasingly twitchy. Owning an asset outright and waiting on the market to come back to you is one thing, but being in debt due to a leveraged position as the market goes against your trade is a different psychological can of worms altogether.

nah, every time it flashcrashes it bounces right back to levels were it was supported previously. In this case it seems to be around $640

it will just gather some steam and try again within the next day

[maker88]

It just dropped to $618 and you're still telling me im wrong?

Yes, you are wrong.

Then you're a special kind of dumb.

-B-

sell your coins then and leave us 'dumb' folks to our profits

[MatTheCat]

people keep using the words "market manipulation" here. I don't think these words mean what you think they mean.

What about 'Market Engineering' then?

[leopard2]

Market engineering, they do that for gold since 1950....

[beetcoin]

i don't think there's any doubt that bitcoin is being manipulated/pumped. the market cap was/is small enough to the point where a few rich people colluding could push the prices up.. and we live in a capitalistic society. it just adds up, at least to me.

[btc6000]

Forget the 15m charts unless you're daytrading. +/- 10% swing is 'normal' for Bitcoin. Look at the 1d, 3d, 1w with a log scale to see the broader trend. Where are support and resistance points? Watch the EMAs - when did they cross? Does price always revert to the mean? If so, then expect a drop if it's too far above the EMA.

Don't ignore fundamental analysis and overall market sentiment. The trend is your friend.

[BitchicksHusband]

this is fucking willy bot in action

cant be the real price

This is definitely a bot, but the question is whose bot?  It could be legit.

About a month ago rpietila said that a large investor wanted to buy 1% of all bitcoins.  It could be his bot.  Now that he bought everything available off-market, he's forced to buy on market and effect the price.  The bot could be the way to buy the coins as cheaply as possible while still buying them fairly quickly, before too much panic buying sets in.  The bot seems to have a great strategy:
 
1. Buy a single order every 3-4 seconds
2. When you reach a high, wait 10-20 seconds to see if anyone sells
3. If someone sells at any time, wait 45 seconds to see if lower orders fill in

[jonald_fyookball]

I was quoting you today "it's going back up agaiiiin" lol

[Gleason]

We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450.  

I wouldn't call it an "actual value". Its called THE BOTTOM, and its called that for a reason.

Alot of the money that is coming back in, is probably not "new" money. More like old money that changed to smarter hands.
Most smart traders went into fiat in the $800-1000+ range and waited for a bottom to re-enter.. They saw the 430-450 range where most people refused to sell anymore, and it settled there. Now the profits for traders from a few months ago, is flowing back in, along with some new money as well.

We also had nothing but good news when we were in the $400 range, so that had to instill confidence in people to re-invest back in.

-Brian

[beetcoin]

We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450.  

I wouldn't call it an "actual value". Its called THE BOTTOM, and its called that for a reason.

Alot of the money that is coming back in, is probably not "new" money. More like old money that changed to smarter hands.
Most smart traders went into fiat in the $800-1000+ range and waited for a bottom to re-enter.. They saw the 430-450 range where most people refused to sell anymore, and it settled there. Now the profits for traders from a few months ago, is flowing back in, along with some new money as well.

We also had nothing but good news when we were in the $400 range, so that had to instill confidence in people to re-invest back in.

-Brian

yeah i don't know if i'd call it "actual value." just more like "what people are willing to pay for it, based on what they think other people would pay for it."

[yenom]

It just dropped to $618 and you're still telling me im wrong?

I want to know who the assholes are that are screwing with the price and making bitcoin so volatile, making it lose the respect of the masses for their own financial gain.

-B-

It's called a thin market. I've followed some of your posts on here and I thought you would understand that. Look at the value of the inside spread on the S&P 500 Futures contract compared to the inside spread of bitstamp and it's a joke. We're talking many orders of magnitude different. It takes peanuts to move bitcoin around (comparatively speaking).

The rest of the comments in this thread tell me that most people on this forum haven't got the first clue about market dynamics.

[Don007]

I don't think it was a pump. I think it's a sign that we're obviously on our way back! Back to the top!

It's about $50.- less worth now than yesterday, but hey, I expected that. We can't head to an alltime high without some stabilizations or how you would like to call them. I think we'll be above the $675 soon enough again.

[yenom]

I don't think it was a pump. I think it's a sign that we're obviously on our way back! Back to the top!

It's about $50.- less worth now than yesterday, but hey, I expected that. We can't head to an alltime high without some stabilizations or how you would like to call them. I think we'll be above the $675 soon enough again.

Ultimately yes, but I think we will see $550 before we see $700.

[Don007]

I don't think it was a pump. I think it's a sign that we're obviously on our way back! Back to the top!

It's about $50.- less worth now than yesterday, but hey, I expected that. We can't head to an alltime high without some stabilizations or how you would like to call them. I think we'll be above the $675 soon enough again.

Ultimately yes, but I think we will see $550 before we see $700.

Might be possible indeed, allthough I don't think we will go less than $500.-. I think we will find out soon enough, for now it's time to make some money on this "stabilization" .

[Marbit]

Hard to say where we are going from here. We have a confirmed shooting star on the Bitfinex daily chart, and waiting for confirmation of follow through should be retrace harder. I think from looking at the daily that we could hit the mid-500s. This thing needs to cool off.